tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post818290626948700660..comments2024-03-27T14:21:36.537-04:00Comments on Touch the Banner: Mike McCray, WolverineUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-65567440240176251572012-03-07T18:00:06.251-05:002012-03-07T18:00:06.251-05:00True, but Taylor and Clark seem to have passed som...True, but Taylor and Clark seem to have passed some older players on the depth chart already - when most considered them to be developmental-type recruits. There are some recruits who appear ready to contribute right away (e.g., Forcier, Countess, Kalis) and do, but others who don't (e.g., Justin Turner, Jeremy Gallon). Then you have guys like Martavious Odoms, Vincent Smith, and Desmond Morgan, who you think will take a few years, but emerge as players right away.<br /><br />Projecting how good someone will be is hard. Adding how quickly he'll develop into a contributing player is even harder, especially since the situation (position changes, attrition, etc.) plays a significant role.Lankownianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-32889340628900112442012-03-07T17:38:15.103-05:002012-03-07T17:38:15.103-05:00Ability and instincts are two different things to ...Ability and instincts are two different things to me. His instincts look pretty good (to me.) However, his ability to stop the run could be improved with better tackling technique, and a little more aggression. I am confident hell be an above average talent based on athleticism alone. It is nice to have you keep us grounded though. JCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-22643361437780784672012-03-07T15:23:03.907-05:002012-03-07T15:23:03.907-05:00You might take a little less heat if you did a flo...You might take a little less heat if you did a floor/ceiling projection. It's fairly common in the world of baseball scouting. Outside of the blog being criticized, I'd say it's a more informative approach.colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08174892535497307347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-20147397793874004612012-03-07T13:45:18.324-05:002012-03-07T13:45:18.324-05:00Here's Thunder's scale.
100 = Best prospe...Here's Thunder's scale.<br /><br />100 = Best prospect in the country at his position; high likelihood of 1st round NFL potential (Ex: Charles Woodson)<br /><br />90-99 = Outstanding starter in Big Ten; likely All-Big Ten and All-American; high likelihood of NFL draft potential (Ex: Brandon Graham)<br /><br />80-89 = Very good starter in Big Ten; good chance of All-Big Ten; some NFL draft potential (Ex: Jonas Mouton)<br /><br />70-79 = Solid starter in Big Ten; some NFL draft potential (Ex: Brandon Minor)<br /><br />60-69 = Average starter in Big Ten; little NFL draft potential (Ex: Mark Ortmann)<br /><br />50-59 = Below average starter or good backup (Ex: John Ferrara)<br /><br />40-49 = Average backup or solid special teams contributor (Ex: Darnell Hood)<br /><br />1-39 = Below average backup or special teams contributor (Ex: Brandon Logan)<br /><br />NOTE: Examples are based on a player's completed college career, and NOT his potential as a recruit.<br /><br />A problem for some with some of Thunder's rating is that for example in the case of Kaleb Ringer who got a big time reduction, part of the criteria has to do with who's coming in with you and who's ahead of you and then Thunder's opinion on where, when and how you get on the field in view of who you will be competing against in practice..<br /><br />If indeed my understanding on the thought process is even close to correct, that's all way beyond subjective analysis and very unique. In other words, Thunder is rating you against/within the world in which you are going to compete.<br /><br />So, 74 is a solid starter with draft potential. Is that so bad? I'd personally put the kid into the high 70s maybe low 80s under this criteria, but a lack of big hits at his size/speed is something to wonder about. Every recruit ain't gonna be Charles Woodson, as much as we all would really like it to be.<br /><br />Finally, let me close by saying that with regards to Kaleb Ringer, I still think he must have asked Thunder's wife for a date.Roanmanhttp://justthinking.usnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-39066906305028645382012-03-07T13:23:40.007-05:002012-03-07T13:23:40.007-05:00You are correct that these reviews point out curre...You are correct that these reviews point out current deficiencies. It's really difficult to say which problems are fixable and which aren't. For kids who are hard-headed and refuse to change, lots of things might be unfixable. I would say that any great athlete has at least a chance to be successful at the Big Ten level if he puts in the time and the mental work. Unfortunately, that type of thing is very difficult to gauge.<br /><br />Serious, potentially unfixable red flags to me are: lack of aggression, slowness, laziness, poor balance, and pad level (for linemen and linebackers). Kids who have those qualities are going to have a hard time succeeding because they're innate.<br /><br />Play recognition, footwork, and various other qualities can be taught and coached up.<br /><br />I always try to point out when kids have a lot of potential (both Tuley-Tillman and McCray have lots of potential). And if a kid is a poor athlete, then I will try to pass along that notion, too...because poor athletes are the ones who are bound to sit on the bench. Fortunately for Michigan, Hoke seems to be bringing in good athletes who are well coached or good athletes who need good coaching. This is not the case for Rich Rodriguez, who brought in some subpar athletes, period.Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09708792562446136381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-56288510153226601402012-03-07T13:09:55.998-05:002012-03-07T13:09:55.998-05:00I'd take Prescott Burgess in a heartbeat.
He ...I'd take Prescott Burgess in a heartbeat.<br /><br />He was a pretty solid upperclassman.Roanmanhttp://justthinking.usnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-89192912757924959162012-03-07T13:02:09.058-05:002012-03-07T13:02:09.058-05:00It strikes me that these reviews have a lot of ins...It strikes me that these reviews have a lot of insight into what guys are like now, but less on their ceiling and the probability the coaching staff turns them into something resembling their ceiling. I'm reminded of your Frank Clark writeup, in which I think you gave him a 59. You also included a quote from Ed Orgeron about how coaches have to believe they can clean up technique. I have no doubt that Clark's game needed a ton of work. But I wonder if Mattison/Hoke are being more forward-looking in their evaluations?<br /><br />And that's not to say that high school juniors can't have red flags. I'm more of a bball guy than football. A high school pg who can't shoot is less likely to shoot well at the next level than someone who already has a killer J. I have every confidence in your statement that McCray's run instincts stink *now.* But as someone who knows little about football, I have difficulty projecting whether that's correctable or not. And I'm more interested in what current deficiencies you think are unfixable or hard to fix, as opposed to the magnitude of all his current deficiencies, were they never addressed.<br /><br />As an absurd example: suppose LeBron James were to begin a college footbal career tomorrow. I'm less interested in how bad his route-running is today and more interested in what you think about the probability distribution of his ability 2 years from now, when you combine 6'9, strength, and speed with coaching from Hecklinski. But I'm suspicious your ranking system would give him a 65 because his routes suck today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-82711918725000110672012-03-07T11:00:05.032-05:002012-03-07T11:00:05.032-05:00I might argue that Taylor could still be considere...I might argue that Taylor could still be considered a raw prospect. Outside of EMU (if I remember correctly), he really didn't play that much. And even Clark wasn't used too often, although he played pretty well when he was used.Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09708792562446136381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-55692770846354043292012-03-07T10:51:38.958-05:002012-03-07T10:51:38.958-05:00Thankfully, Thunder is an honest voice. Most recr...Thankfully, Thunder is an honest voice. Most recruiting sites are focused on fluffing everyone up into a future NFL all-pro.Lankownianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-17538875291554607612012-03-07T10:49:18.919-05:002012-03-07T10:49:18.919-05:00It's really hard to project this kind of thing...It's really hard to project this kind of thing IMO. No one thought Frank Clark would make an impact right away. And Ramon Taylor was considered raw too. Seems like the unexpected happens more often than not in regard to timelines of player development.<br /><br />For all we know McCray could be playing ahead of an older guy like RJS by '13 or '14.Lankownianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-74595002030438334882012-03-07T10:47:29.481-05:002012-03-07T10:47:29.481-05:00Fitzgerald was a very highly rated recruit. He...Fitzgerald was a very highly rated recruit. He's contributed consistently to the team. It just turned out he didn't have the 'it' factor, athletically or mentally or both, to be a quality starter.Lankownianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-66242244167633400692012-03-07T10:44:41.656-05:002012-03-07T10:44:41.656-05:00I agree he has more upside than what we saw from F...I agree he has more upside than what we saw from Fitzgerald, but with the slow run diagnosis, that's what he looks like right now.Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09708792562446136381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-53371942829850602232012-03-07T10:42:10.778-05:002012-03-07T10:42:10.778-05:00I think you're spot on concerning his tackling...I think you're spot on concerning his tackling ability. He doesn't miss the tackle, but he drags down these much smaller H.S. kids after they gain a few more yards. While I agree his run diagnosis is not great, like a James Ross, I think it's still decent. The part I disagree with is the JB Fitzgerald comparison. McCray has much more upside, the kid is a talented athlete, he just needs a couple years in the program.Elmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09255166333885153283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-54684260148059978792012-03-07T10:07:03.613-05:002012-03-07T10:07:03.613-05:00I see a little bit of Prescott Burgess in McCray. ...I see a little bit of Prescott Burgess in McCray. Burgess was a slow developer, though, so we might see McCray get to his potential a little quicker.Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09708792562446136381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-23827752185812991562012-03-07T09:52:39.969-05:002012-03-07T09:52:39.969-05:00I like the "contrarian" opinions offered...I like the "contrarian" opinions offered. Honest criticism is great. If you can't take it, don't play high level D1/BCS ball. I think the coaches love his potential and will stash him behind the 2012 kids until his red-shirt sophomore or junior year. Having a great 2012 LB class allows us to take kids that may not be as polished as others.<br /><br />That said I am also surprised that rivals has him at 44, if you seem to see holes in his game. you said he is like JB. But if he reaches his potential, who does he remind you of from past teams?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-70583079471564262062012-03-07T09:43:54.262-05:002012-03-07T09:43:54.262-05:00Point well taken.
GoodbyePoint well taken.<br /><br />GoodbyeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-21433903453116615772012-03-07T09:24:02.824-05:002012-03-07T09:24:02.824-05:00You're entitled to your opinion.You're entitled to your opinion.Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09708792562446136381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-18989634950794483192012-03-07T09:22:59.965-05:002012-03-07T09:22:59.965-05:00I am really starting to think that you just take r...I am really starting to think that you just take random criticisms and throw them in your evaluations to sound like an expert. Things like, "bad instincts" or "needs to work on his footwork." You think that if you take a contrarian view, it makes you sound smart. This review is mostly hot air.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-9375602316067741762012-03-07T06:50:18.284-05:002012-03-07T06:50:18.284-05:00You can be around the ball without being extremely...You can be around the ball without being extremely instinctive or a great tackler.Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09708792562446136381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-38023639520218747532012-03-07T06:37:08.689-05:002012-03-07T06:37:08.689-05:00I agree that his pass coverage skills are pretty d...I agree that his pass coverage skills are pretty darn good, but as I mentioned, the #1 thing for a linebacker (especially a MIKE/SAM) should be stopping the run. And I don't see the run stopping ability that you do.Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09708792562446136381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-11439081797968386972012-03-07T06:36:04.205-05:002012-03-07T06:36:04.205-05:00Yes, that was Grover.
I think he got the #44 over...Yes, that was Grover.<br /><br />I think he got the #44 overall ranking by being big and fast. I mean, if he does run a 4.61 forty at 6'4" and 230-240 lbs., that's pretty damn impressive. And he's not a bad football player by any stretch of the imagination. I would just expect the #44 overall player to be better at some things.Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09708792562446136381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-20258107347737876222012-03-07T06:34:28.022-05:002012-03-07T06:34:28.022-05:00I don't think the coaches would offer a lineba...I don't think the coaches would offer a linebacker if what they really want is a tight end. I think the versatility might help in the long run, but I'm sure the coaches think he can help at linebacker.Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09708792562446136381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-44907686664894781062012-03-07T06:32:49.218-05:002012-03-07T06:32:49.218-05:00If you don't want criticisms of players, you&#...If you don't want criticisms of players, you're on the wrong website.Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09708792562446136381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-91897095974375587612012-03-07T00:35:04.495-05:002012-03-07T00:35:04.495-05:00I don't know how you get 132 tackles if you d...I don't know how you get 132 tackles if you don't have good run stopping instincts. He is constantly around the ball and making plays. Agree, some technique improvements will be needed, but I think you're being too harsh.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2440694009017367434.post-13757185753056367602012-03-07T00:29:08.160-05:002012-03-07T00:29:08.160-05:00Wow a 74...you cold.Wow a 74...you cold.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com