Unrelated to Speight but related to recruiting. Today Lattimore and Smith picked OSU (or University of Ohio State, according to Smith). That's two elite recruits who we really could've use. As I mentioned before, winning means something. Losing 5 games during the regular season and getting blown out in the bowl game is why we haven't had a recruit commit to us since August 2013. I kept saying winning matters in recruiting, and had some guys here calling me a Drew Sharp and downplay what I said as if I was talking about big foot.
WINNING MATTERS. OSU IS OUT-RECRUITING US BECAUSE THEY ARE 12-2 AND WE ARE 7-6.
I am hoping Hoke and his chubby assistants realize this, and start winning games in 2014. It would be a feat to hold onto Peppers in NSD.
Yes, winning does mean something. What does that have to do with two Glenville players choosing Ohio State? They were considered OSU locks for a long time, and that came to fruition. Nothing new.
Yeah, but a lot of words that they (esp. Lattimore) were considering Michigan as well. Michigan coaches wanted them too and tried to break into Glenville.
Just real frustrated that winning coaches all over the country are closing on elite recruits. We haven't closed on a recruit since summer. Makes me want to throw up thinking how Michigan played against KSU. God. Probably made a lot of recruits turn their heads other way.
We haven't had any recruits to close on except Da'Shawn Hand. Our class is virtually full, and the coaches haven't been recruiting many people except Hand, McDowell, Enwere, Lattimore, and Smith. Hand went to a team that has been great for several years; Lattimore and Smith went to the school Glenville generally feeds into. McDowell and Enwere are essentially still undecided. Step back from the ledge.
Yes. The pathetic season, even more pathetic bowl game, Michigan State winning the Rose Bowl, and OSU closing on elite recruits left and right really got to me. All I am saying is winning might have turned some elite recruits to our side, and losing didn't help us.
"Losing 5 games during the regular season and getting blown out in the bowl game is why we haven't had a recruit commit to us since August 2013."
Yet another dramatic and unsupported statement ...
How do you know that the absence of commitments during that window is due to the W-L record? As Thunder noted in his 4:31p post, Michigan was largely filled up early and only a couple of guys appear to be in play.
Dude, I also dislike the losing. (I really don't get your fixation on that bowl game, though.) I wouldn't be too surprised to hear that McDowell watched the MSU game while holding his nose. We're not quite at threat-level-red, though.
It is sports dude. People have opinions. Are you 100% sure we would've missed out on Lattimore and D Hand anyway even if we were playing in the national championship game? I am not 100% sure either, that's why it is an opinion. You can disagree with me, but don't try to make it into a drama by throwing dismissive adjectives around.
Two Glenville kids who were always gonna commit to Ohio State took the opportunity to travel a little bit, take a look around in the great big world, see some big time college football on the cheap, while having either the class, good manners or both to say nice things about the places they were visiting and then they went ahead and committed to Ohio State.
So yes, in answer to your question, everyone ..... including Hoke, was/is sure they were always committing to Ohio State. Hoke spent some time writing them a letter here and there because he's a professional and it's important to treat a source like Glenville with respect regardless of outcome. Among our problems at Glenville is the fact that Lloyd got into it with a Glenville kid and likely with Ginn Sr. as well and poisoned the well for us going forward pretty good. Hoke doing rehab at Glenville High shouldn't be confused with any real shot at any top kid there any time soon. You may pull the next Frank Clark here and there, a three star kid that OSU doesn't want or that waited to long, but that's it. If the Buckeyes wants a Glenville kid, that's where they are going.
If we were competing in the National Championship game, we likely do have Hand in hand, the Glenville kids that matter are going to OSU to beat us even if we're playing in multiple National Championship games. You might even lose MacDowel to MSU because they are coming off an epic defensive year, finally won a Rose Bowl and he thinks they are for real. But the fact is we are maybe one slot from full with the third very strong class in a row that Hoke has pulled in. To quote Captain Jack Sparrow, "You need to find a girl, Mate."
Only a football dunce would think that this football team had the talent to run the table this year and by the way, next years team has no chance either, zero, zip, nada. It isn't until 2015 with a veteran D and O line in front of mature Running Backs, Linebackers and a new QB that we even sniff that dream, then we still better be way damn lucky.
One reason we sucked this year is that "Stupid Michigan Man" got his shorts in a knot over an outsider coming to the program and torpedoed our own recruiting efforts during Rich Rod's tenure here. There was absolutely no chance to successfully recruit the big time athletes who would ordinarily have loved to come here to play for either Michigan, Rich Rod or both because between The Freep, idiot former players hating Rodrigez on national TV (I'm talking to you Braylon Edward's et al.) and internet football morons hyperventilating over a system change and the 3/3/5, this program reeked of coaching death for three full years. That three year stench is the reason we have so few quality upperclassmen around here at the moment. Kids want to finish for the coach who brought them in, they want nothing to do with coaching changes.
That three year stench is also a major factor in Sparty finally getting good. Dantonio would have a lot fewer wins and would be under pressure today if silly little "Michigan Man" had not chosen to go full retard and destroy his own program. MSU is good right now mostly because of continuity within their program. When the stupids around here start with their "heads must roll" whine frankly, they only demonstrate their ignorance concerning how a college football program gets and stays good.
Our recruiting class is not a big cause for concern. We don't really have room to take more than probably one more guy anyway. If we can get McDowell, great, if not, that's not a tragedy, as long as we hold onto the guys we have. It's not going to be a top 10 class, but 16 player classes rarely are. OSU had more slots to fill this year, but that just means they're losing more, or that they had smaller classes in past years. We have several guys sitting at 3 stars now who have the potential to be much better, including Speight, Bunting, JBB and Ways.
Roanman: I know we weren't going to play in the NC. I said that hypothetically to make a point. Nobody would want Hoke fired after 3 years, but some of his assistants deserve it. There's no way we should see negative yardage rushing for consecutive games. There's just no way.
Frank Beamer? The guy who went 7-6 in 2012 and 8-5 in 2013? Hmm...
Anonymous 10:08am: Hey man, we still have some room left, and we aren't filling them in with players we would like to have. Given our woes on the D-line, D. Hand was a must-have that we missed out. I also wouldn't count so much on JBB -- unless he works really really hard, he might be a career back-up.
Don't forget 24/40/2 in his first five years. Then multiple 10/11 win seasons, two Orange Bowl Championships among others at a backwater football school if there ever was one.
If your career goes half as swimmingly as has Frank Beamer's, somebody might remember you for something.
I sat there in 1984 when St. Bo went 6/6 with his own recruits, listening to the morons go on and on about "Playing not to lose", "can't win the big ones" "can't coach the passing game', "can't coach against the passing game", We need to hire Bobby Ross, etc. He ran off three more Big Championships and three bowl wins including a Rose Bowl ... finally ... and three more 10+ win seasons.
The biggest concern with Hoke and company is not lack of on-paper talent, or even lack of wins, but lack of improvement. The players he has recruited have not developed as quickly as those at elite programs, and more importantly, they do not look well-coached. The BWW Bowl was a very clear illustration of that. We probably had a higher rated recruit than KSU at every position on the field, but their guys simply played better, tougher football. They did what they needed to, and were always in position, whereas ours were not. Is this still a young team? Yes. But we were still not depending on very many players who have not had two or three years in the program. And with a young team, you would expect a noticeable improvement over the course of a season, and there was none. We looked essentially the same in November and December as we did in September, maybe worse. We started 5-0 and finished 2-6. K State started 2-4 and finished 6-1. That's a mark of good coaching, even with less than elite talent.
Should Hoke be fired now? No, but someone needs to be. Hoke should be on the hot seat from game 1 next year, though. Anything less than 10-2 and his job should be in serious jeopardy. 8-4 or worse, and he should be gone.
Roanman, you're cherry-picking yourself. Yes Frank Beamer had a good run (overall), and I know our own Bo went 6-6 in 1984. But Beamer's up-and-down record also shows that longevity and continuity do not always lead to good results as you indicated on the first post.
I understand the points you make regarding the importance of coaching continuity, but continuity does not equal good results. I don't want to nit-pick, but there's nothing wrong about being upset with Hoke for going 7-6 and having NEGATIVE YARDS on the ground. Getting negative rushing yards in consecutive games... I have never seen that, anywhere, ever.
Hoke won 2/3 of his games thus far, and despite the declining number of wins, that grants him the 4th year. That's the end of it.
I agree with Anonymous 2:35pm. The OSU game gave me the hope, and the bowl game destroyed that hope. A bunch of players also indicated after the game that they weren't "into" the game, and that's very disconcerting. Hoke is on the hot seat for 2014. I'd say 9 wins is the minimum. Lower than that, and he doesn't deserve the Michigan job.
Not cherry picking at all suduri, Beamer has a record you will be hard pressed to match in your field of endeavor which ain't nowhere near as competitive as is college football. I don't care what it is that you do.
And by all means, be as upset as you must.
My point is simply that I don't have an ounce of respect for it, as I find it to be weak, silly, unproductive and a clear demonstration of ignorance with regards to how college football works.
All the hand wringing around here for the past two months damn near blew up the Peppers commitment, forcing Brandon to step in with a very public vote of confidence. Why on earth would Peppers be concerned about Hoke's future here except for the fact that he's a kid that can read and likely spends some time most days over at MGOBLOG and if he's real smart ..... here?
Here's Jalen Tabor passing on Florida, his #1 choice in August, “Florida just had too many red-flags. Don’t get me wrong, I love those coaches there, especially T-Rob (Travaris Robinson). But this is a business decision and if they don’t do well next season those guys won’t be there.” Guess what? Winning at Florida just got a little bit tougher as that kid is a man. Rich Rod just picked up to my way of thinking the single best strong safety prospect in the country in part because the kid thinks Arizona is now a more stable program than Forida.
Meanwhile you and the rest of the little girls running around being "upset" accomplish absolutely nothing except for making it just a little bit tougher to pull the kids that you can go win with ... stupid.
I'll say it again, I haven't one shred of respect for your particular brand of whining, find it to be completely counter productive to the goal of building a year in and year out dominant college football program and in general suduri I can hardly imagine a more ignorant stream of drivel than the hyperbolic sniveling you have offered up around here for the past little bit.
I usually mostly agree with Thunder, but in this instance I have to strongly disagree. JUMP!
Whatever dude. For a guy who watched Bo's season in 1984 (you must be at least 40), don't you think you should find better ways of expressing yourself than throwing around insults?
I understand all your points, but continuity doesn't always equal good results (look at Ferentz, Charlie Weis, Mack Brown, etc.), and it is not unreasonable to expect more from Hoke in year three (think negative rushing yards). Disagree all you want, but your brand of whining is a lot worse than anything I did. Thanks.
Going to change the subject back to Speight. I like how Speight is trying to improve himself both on the field, and in the locker room. Having the ability to talk to Russel Wilson, who has won over quite a few locker rooms, is really using his resources wisely. I hope he can come in and give Morris quite a bit of competition right off the bat. From his high school film, didn't get to see the UA game, I think he has all the tools necessary to come in and kick ass.
Agreed on Speight. While he might not have (this is also just an impression) the "it" that players like Braxton Miller or J Winston do, I can see the potential in him that he can develop to be a successful QB. Hopely he can push both Gardner and Morris next year in competition.
Barring an injury to Morris or Gardner, I would tend to think that Speight will redshirt, especially if Bellomy is back healthy. There won't be a lot of meaningful snaps for him, so there's no sense burning a year. I think he'll be well situated to be a solid backup for Morris in 2015, or even push for the starting job, but if he takes his redshirt, he'll have two more years after Morris leaves in any case, which would be ideal.
A redshirt for Speight would be ideal, since Morris will most likely get snaps next year as well (even though Gardner is the starter). Hopely we can redshirt him and have him around until the fifth year.
Unrelated to Speight but related to recruiting. Today Lattimore and Smith picked OSU (or University of Ohio State, according to Smith). That's two elite recruits who we really could've use. As I mentioned before, winning means something. Losing 5 games during the regular season and getting blown out in the bowl game is why we haven't had a recruit commit to us since August 2013. I kept saying winning matters in recruiting, and had some guys here calling me a Drew Sharp and downplay what I said as if I was talking about big foot.
ReplyDeleteWINNING MATTERS. OSU IS OUT-RECRUITING US BECAUSE THEY ARE 12-2 AND WE ARE 7-6.
I am hoping Hoke and his chubby assistants realize this, and start winning games in 2014. It would be a feat to hold onto Peppers in NSD.
Yes, winning does mean something. What does that have to do with two Glenville players choosing Ohio State? They were considered OSU locks for a long time, and that came to fruition. Nothing new.
DeleteYeah, but a lot of words that they (esp. Lattimore) were considering Michigan as well. Michigan coaches wanted them too and tried to break into Glenville.
DeleteJust real frustrated that winning coaches all over the country are closing on elite recruits. We haven't closed on a recruit since summer. Makes me want to throw up thinking how Michigan played against KSU. God. Probably made a lot of recruits turn their heads other way.
We haven't had any recruits to close on except Da'Shawn Hand. Our class is virtually full, and the coaches haven't been recruiting many people except Hand, McDowell, Enwere, Lattimore, and Smith. Hand went to a team that has been great for several years; Lattimore and Smith went to the school Glenville generally feeds into. McDowell and Enwere are essentially still undecided. Step back from the ledge.
DeleteYes. The pathetic season, even more pathetic bowl game, Michigan State winning the Rose Bowl, and OSU closing on elite recruits left and right really got to me. All I am saying is winning might have turned some elite recruits to our side, and losing didn't help us.
Delete"Losing 5 games during the regular season and getting blown out in the bowl game is why we haven't had a recruit commit to us since August 2013."
DeleteYet another dramatic and unsupported statement ...
How do you know that the absence of commitments during that window is due to the W-L record? As Thunder noted in his 4:31p post, Michigan was largely filled up early and only a couple of guys appear to be in play.
Dude, I also dislike the losing. (I really don't get your fixation on that bowl game, though.) I wouldn't be too surprised to hear that McDowell watched the MSU game while holding his nose. We're not quite at threat-level-red, though.
yada yada yada dramatic yada yada yada unsupported yada yada yada
DeleteIt is sports dude. People have opinions. Are you 100% sure we would've missed out on Lattimore and D Hand anyway even if we were playing in the national championship game? I am not 100% sure either, that's why it is an opinion. You can disagree with me, but don't try to make it into a drama by throwing dismissive adjectives around.
Three words for you there suduri, Ted Ginn Sr.
DeleteTwo Glenville kids who were always gonna commit to Ohio State took the opportunity to travel a little bit, take a look around in the great big world, see some big time college football on the cheap, while having either the class, good manners or both to say nice things about the places they were visiting and then they went ahead and committed to Ohio State.
So yes, in answer to your question, everyone ..... including Hoke, was/is sure they were always committing to Ohio State. Hoke spent some time writing them a letter here and there because he's a professional and it's important to treat a source like Glenville with respect regardless of outcome. Among our problems at Glenville is the fact that Lloyd got into it with a Glenville kid and likely with Ginn Sr. as well and poisoned the well for us going forward pretty good. Hoke doing rehab at Glenville High shouldn't be confused with any real shot at any top kid there any time soon. You may pull the next Frank Clark here and there, a three star kid that OSU doesn't want or that waited to long, but that's it. If the Buckeyes wants a Glenville kid, that's where they are going.
If we were competing in the National Championship game, we likely do have Hand in hand, the Glenville kids that matter are going to OSU to beat us even if we're playing in multiple National Championship games. You might even lose MacDowel to MSU because they are coming off an epic defensive year, finally won a Rose Bowl and he thinks they are for real. But the fact is we are maybe one slot from full with the third very strong class in a row that Hoke has pulled in. To quote Captain Jack Sparrow, "You need to find a girl, Mate."
Only a football dunce would think that this football team had the talent to run the table this year and by the way, next years team has no chance either, zero, zip, nada. It isn't until 2015 with a veteran D and O line in front of mature Running Backs, Linebackers and a new QB that we even sniff that dream, then we still better be way damn lucky.
One reason we sucked this year is that "Stupid Michigan Man" got his shorts in a knot over an outsider coming to the program and torpedoed our own recruiting efforts during Rich Rod's tenure here. There was absolutely no chance to successfully recruit the big time athletes who would ordinarily have loved to come here to play for either Michigan, Rich Rod or both because between The Freep, idiot former players hating Rodrigez on national TV (I'm talking to you Braylon Edward's et al.) and internet football morons hyperventilating over a system change and the 3/3/5, this program reeked of coaching death for three full years. That three year stench is the reason we have so few quality upperclassmen around here at the moment. Kids want to finish for the coach who brought them in, they want nothing to do with coaching changes.
That three year stench is also a major factor in Sparty finally getting good. Dantonio would have a lot fewer wins and would be under pressure today if silly little "Michigan Man" had not chosen to go full retard and destroy his own program. MSU is good right now mostly because of continuity within their program. When the stupids around here start with their "heads must roll" whine frankly, they only demonstrate their ignorance concerning how a college football program gets and stays good.
Two more word for you there suduri. Frank Beamer!
Our recruiting class is not a big cause for concern. We don't really have room to take more than probably one more guy anyway. If we can get McDowell, great, if not, that's not a tragedy, as long as we hold onto the guys we have. It's not going to be a top 10 class, but 16 player classes rarely are. OSU had more slots to fill this year, but that just means they're losing more, or that they had smaller classes in past years. We have several guys sitting at 3 stars now who have the potential to be much better, including Speight, Bunting, JBB and Ways.
DeleteRoanman: I know we weren't going to play in the NC. I said that hypothetically to make a point. Nobody would want Hoke fired after 3 years, but some of his assistants deserve it. There's no way we should see negative yardage rushing for consecutive games. There's just no way.
DeleteFrank Beamer? The guy who went 7-6 in 2012 and 8-5 in 2013? Hmm...
Anonymous 10:08am: Hey man, we still have some room left, and we aren't filling them in with players we would like to have. Given our woes on the D-line, D. Hand was a must-have that we missed out. I also wouldn't count so much on JBB -- unless he works really really hard, he might be a career back-up.
You're cherry picking there suduri.
DeleteDon't forget 24/40/2 in his first five years. Then multiple 10/11 win seasons, two Orange Bowl Championships among others at a backwater football school if there ever was one.
If your career goes half as swimmingly as has Frank Beamer's, somebody might remember you for something.
I sat there in 1984 when St. Bo went 6/6 with his own recruits, listening to the morons go on and on about "Playing not to lose", "can't win the big ones" "can't coach the passing game', "can't coach against the passing game", We need to hire Bobby Ross, etc. He ran off three more Big Championships and three bowl wins including a Rose Bowl ... finally ... and three more 10+ win seasons.
The biggest concern with Hoke and company is not lack of on-paper talent, or even lack of wins, but lack of improvement. The players he has recruited have not developed as quickly as those at elite programs, and more importantly, they do not look well-coached. The BWW Bowl was a very clear illustration of that. We probably had a higher rated recruit than KSU at every position on the field, but their guys simply played better, tougher football. They did what they needed to, and were always in position, whereas ours were not. Is this still a young team? Yes. But we were still not depending on very many players who have not had two or three years in the program. And with a young team, you would expect a noticeable improvement over the course of a season, and there was none. We looked essentially the same in November and December as we did in September, maybe worse. We started 5-0 and finished 2-6. K State started 2-4 and finished 6-1. That's a mark of good coaching, even with less than elite talent.
DeleteShould Hoke be fired now? No, but someone needs to be. Hoke should be on the hot seat from game 1 next year, though. Anything less than 10-2 and his job should be in serious jeopardy. 8-4 or worse, and he should be gone.
Roanman, you're cherry-picking yourself. Yes Frank Beamer had a good run (overall), and I know our own Bo went 6-6 in 1984. But Beamer's up-and-down record also shows that longevity and continuity do not always lead to good results as you indicated on the first post.
DeleteI understand the points you make regarding the importance of coaching continuity, but continuity does not equal good results. I don't want to nit-pick, but there's nothing wrong about being upset with Hoke for going 7-6 and having NEGATIVE YARDS on the ground. Getting negative rushing yards in consecutive games... I have never seen that, anywhere, ever.
Hoke won 2/3 of his games thus far, and despite the declining number of wins, that grants him the 4th year. That's the end of it.
I agree with Anonymous 2:35pm. The OSU game gave me the hope, and the bowl game destroyed that hope. A bunch of players also indicated after the game that they weren't "into" the game, and that's very disconcerting. Hoke is on the hot seat for 2014. I'd say 9 wins is the minimum. Lower than that, and he doesn't deserve the Michigan job.
DeleteNot cherry picking at all suduri, Beamer has a record you will be hard pressed to match in your field of endeavor which ain't nowhere near as competitive as is college football. I don't care what it is that you do.
DeleteAnd by all means, be as upset as you must.
My point is simply that I don't have an ounce of respect for it, as I find it to be weak, silly, unproductive and a clear demonstration of ignorance with regards to how college football works.
All the hand wringing around here for the past two months damn near blew up the Peppers commitment, forcing Brandon to step in with a very public vote of confidence. Why on earth would Peppers be concerned about Hoke's future here except for the fact that he's a kid that can read and likely spends some time most days over at MGOBLOG and if he's real smart ..... here?
Here's Jalen Tabor passing on Florida, his #1 choice in August, “Florida just had too many red-flags. Don’t get me wrong, I love those coaches there, especially T-Rob (Travaris Robinson). But this is a business decision and if they don’t do well next season those guys won’t be there.” Guess what? Winning at Florida just got a little bit tougher as that kid is a man. Rich Rod just picked up to my way of thinking the single best strong safety prospect in the country in part because the kid thinks Arizona is now a more stable program than Forida.
Meanwhile you and the rest of the little girls running around being "upset" accomplish absolutely nothing except for making it just a little bit tougher to pull the kids that you can go win with ... stupid.
I'll say it again, I haven't one shred of respect for your particular brand of whining, find it to be completely counter productive to the goal of building a year in and year out dominant college football program and in general suduri I can hardly imagine a more ignorant stream of drivel than the hyperbolic sniveling you have offered up around here for the past little bit.
I usually mostly agree with Thunder, but in this instance I have to strongly disagree. JUMP!
Whatever dude. For a guy who watched Bo's season in 1984 (you must be at least 40), don't you think you should find better ways of expressing yourself than throwing around insults?
DeleteI understand all your points, but continuity doesn't always equal good results (look at Ferentz, Charlie Weis, Mack Brown, etc.), and it is not unreasonable to expect more from Hoke in year three (think negative rushing yards). Disagree all you want, but your brand of whining is a lot worse than anything I did. Thanks.
Going to change the subject back to Speight. I like how Speight is trying to improve himself both on the field, and in the locker room. Having the ability to talk to Russel Wilson, who has won over quite a few locker rooms, is really using his resources wisely. I hope he can come in and give Morris quite a bit of competition right off the bat. From his high school film, didn't get to see the UA game, I think he has all the tools necessary to come in and kick ass.
ReplyDeleteAgreed on Speight. While he might not have (this is also just an impression) the "it" that players like Braxton Miller or J Winston do, I can see the potential in him that he can develop to be a successful QB. Hopely he can push both Gardner and Morris next year in competition.
DeleteBarring an injury to Morris or Gardner, I would tend to think that Speight will redshirt, especially if Bellomy is back healthy. There won't be a lot of meaningful snaps for him, so there's no sense burning a year. I think he'll be well situated to be a solid backup for Morris in 2015, or even push for the starting job, but if he takes his redshirt, he'll have two more years after Morris leaves in any case, which would be ideal.
DeleteA redshirt for Speight would be ideal, since Morris will most likely get snaps next year as well (even though Gardner is the starter). Hopely we can redshirt him and have him around until the fifth year.
Delete