What is up these days with guys sucker punching other guys. This just shows how big of a wuss that you are. It also angers me seeing Michigan players acting like Ohio players. Let's not stoop to their level. He should get the same punishment that the punter got. 1 year off the team. Give him a chance to change himself. Then give him another chance with a very very short leash. Stonum comes to mind here too.
I am sorry to say this, but he deserves to be removed from the team permanently. At some point the football team and the university have to take a stand and make it a zero tolerance policy for something as vicious as this appears to be. I know the whole story isn't being told here on the video, but he clearly sucker punches this kid (after stopping what appears once when the kid looks at him). Hoke did the right thing by removing him immediately, now it is up to the university to do the right thing and remove him permanently.
"Let's not stoop to their level" is so off-base. There's always going to be poor decisions made by college kids, just because they wear maize and blue doesn't make them better people. York should be kicked off the team immediately, and deserves stiff reprimand from the legal system. This a violent and cowardly act. If he ends up in jail so be it. From a pure football perspective, which is mostly irrelevant considering the victim is on a feeding tube and will have lifelong effects from this incident, York getting kicked off the team is the best move. It frees a scholarship up to recruit a better player and a better man.
It's not off base. Urban Meyer is known for not caring if his players are good young men. Brady Hoke in my opinion is trying to recruit good character guys. It is also the duty of a football coach to make these boys into good men.
I'm glad they didn't have video footage back when I got into a fight outside skeepers many moons ago.
This video is sad and makes me cringe as a fan. I was never a fan of York's ability but that's beside the point here. Agree he deserves a long suspension, but I'm not sure booting him off the team is the answer. There should be a path for him to make amends for this stupidity, but it should be a long one.
I'm not absolutely certain that he should be booted, either. I think he will be, but Michigan has had guys get in trouble for drunk driving before without repeat issues. I don't know if he's been in any other trouble, but Graham Glasgow could have easily killed someone by driving drunk, too. It doesn't exactly seem fair that one should get a one-game suspension and the other should get kicked out of school.
Risky behavior (which has the potential to hurt you or someone else) is one thing, but brutally assaulting someone in a vicious, premeditated manner like that is on another level. Now that there is a video out for all to see, I can't imagine Brandon/Hoke reinstating York.
It was a bad, stupid mistake. But if you boot him, this is a potentially life-altering event for the kid. Drunk people do stupid things, and that's no excuse but if you're 18-20 you deserve a second chance IMO. When Griese threw a keg through skeepers window (as legend has it) in the 90s he could have done a lot worse damage to someone.
Lets just say that I'm sure other football players have done more damaging and harmful things to people and gotten less than a one year suspension. It was a punch. It was sucker-punch on full-blast, but it's still a punch. You're probably more likely to kill someone drunk driving than sucker punching. The big difference here is that it's on tape.
It doesn't look remotely pre-meditated. It looks stupid and classless and dangerous, but I don't think York was waiting in line looking to beat anyone up from his body language. The victim here looks confrontational to me.
If I'm Hoke, I would make it very difficult for York to come back, but I wouldn't make it impossible. The program is supposed to be about building character, not just inheriting it.
I think Hoke has done the right thing here by setting the precedent for immediate suspension. This allows this to play out in the court system and see where it all ends up. I think the bigger issue is that this is a vicious attack and under the University of Michigan student code he should be expelled. I know there have been worse things to have happened, but after the black eye with regards to how the Gibbons case was handled this should be an easy decision at the university level not the football level. This would be a best case scenario for Hoke who lets the university decide his punishment and then if he works his way back into good graces with the university he can then work back into the football program. Much like the ND quarterback did (I know different situation, but could be handled similarly).
absolute horseshit lank ... they were waiting for the two guys to come. Absolutley irrelevant what what said or done to lead up to this and I am positive this is the second part of something from somewhere earlier. They waited for them and I would also say that Jones while not guilty of assault sure as hell was ready for what was happening. He backs away after keeping the victims attention AND FACES THE VICTIM watching. The victim who could or could not be a douche has HIS HANDS IN HIS POCKETS... Who is confrontational with THEIR HANDS IN THEIR POCKETS ? Also York makes sure that the guy they are not mad at is ushered through and away. This was definitely not a spur of the moment, I reacted in the heat of the moment fight... Those two kids were surprised and somewhat submissive in their body language when they saw that York and Jones were there. Probably did not expect whatever happened before to carry on outside of the bar. If it was a legit fight I would say give York absolutely a second chance. This is significantly different. Jones should have a little Hoke/Harden party - he should have helped the kid if he didn't know what York was going to do. He has to be cut - this unfortunately is not a situation where there is anything beyond viciousness and cowardness. This visual supercedes any conceivable doubt that should be granted.
You know, I wasn't there, and neither were you I suspect. Your narrative could be right, for all I know, but the kids definitely do not look submissive to me. I don't know what was said or what lead up to this.
Whatever. I'm not really interested in defending York or his actions. In general I think there are worse things than punching somebody - like drunk driving or rape - regardless of how the punch is thrown, and that young people deserve second chances.
Lank - drunk driving is horrible. At one end no one is hurt and it is serious as hell because there is potential to kill, injure, and ruin lives. At the other end it results in killing and ruining lives. I would contend intentionally sucker punching someone as hard as you can in the head to knock them out while directed at only one individual is equally as violent as the worst case of drunk driving. So in your world someone can be a mean sob and intentionally cold-cock people from behind in the skull which often knocks them out and far more often leads to serious head trauma is not the same as someone who intentionally gets in a car knowingly drunk and hurts or kills someone….
I would contend that striking someone with hundreds of pounds of metal, plastic, and rubber is far more likely to kill than your fist.
Intent matters a good deal, but ultimately, it's a lot easier to kill with a 'deadly weapon'.
Again, I have no interest in defending York or what he did. He seems like a punk and I'll shed no tears for him. But, as a grown responsible adult, I look back on stupid fights I got into in college and realize how dumb and dangerous they were and believe I've learned and grown. I didn't need to be booted out of UofM for that to happen.
My actions (and I) were dumb. They weren't as bad as what York did, but fighting and bullshit arguing is a jumbled bag of stupidity and machismo. I do think fighting isn't nearly as dumb and dangerous as getting into a car drunk. They aren't nearly as evil as raping or helping to cover up a rape. They aren't nearly as irredeemable as whatever Larry Harrison was doing.
Michigan has a long history of giving second chances, and in Daryl Stonum's case 3rd and 4th chances sometimes. I didn't like how things went with Stonum, but I think in general people deserve a chance to make up and grow from stupidity.
I wonder what explanation he gave Hoke for the incident. If it was the same lies he told the police, that won't bode well for his chances of remaining on the team.
A lot of Michigan fans talk a good game about supporting student-athletes. . .until they make a mistake.
York's actions are impossible to justify, but they cannot be taken back. What can U-M do now to reduce the probability that York is aggressive in the future? If that's the goal, expulsion is not likely to be effective. Permanently cutting ties with him only makes the problem go away for Michigan. It does not help to mold York into a productive member of society or reduce the likelihood that there is another assault.
Give the kid a punishment and a plan, but don't give up on him completely.
I would argue just the opposite of your premise. Student athletes sign their letter of intent to a particular school and I am quite certain that their are conditions in that scholarship about adhering to a student code of conduct. When the student breaks the law it is the University's duty to either expell or suspend the student in accordance with the student code of conduct. It is the court system's responsibility to determine punishment and to determine the path for which the law breaker will be rehabilitated into society. The only obligation the football team has for this young man ended when he violated the student code of conduct and attacked another individual. It is not the football program's obligation to rehabilitate this kid, nor is it the university's. This young man has much larger concerns than football. Now if Hoke or any other coach chooses to be a mentor to this young man in the future that is a personal choice. I don't think you put that on the program just because he "was" a player.
Technically true, but Bo, Lloyd and most of the coaches that have helped define the whole Michigan man thing would talk about how leadership means more than just doing what you "owe".
York IS a player. For now at least. I think highly enough of Hoke that he'll want to do more than just cut this kid loose as quickly as possible for the sake of PR.
What is up these days with guys sucker punching other guys. This just shows how big of a wuss that you are. It also angers me seeing Michigan players acting like Ohio players. Let's not stoop to their level. He should get the same punishment that the punter got. 1 year off the team. Give him a chance to change himself. Then give him another chance with a very very short leash. Stonum comes to mind here too.
ReplyDeleteI really hope he doesn't get another chance. That hit was completely uncalled for, and could have killed him. York needs to go.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry to say this, but he deserves to be removed from the team permanently. At some point the football team and the university have to take a stand and make it a zero tolerance policy for something as vicious as this appears to be. I know the whole story isn't being told here on the video, but he clearly sucker punches this kid (after stopping what appears once when the kid looks at him). Hoke did the right thing by removing him immediately, now it is up to the university to do the right thing and remove him permanently.
ReplyDelete"Let's not stoop to their level" is so off-base. There's always going to be poor decisions made by college kids, just because they wear maize and blue doesn't make them better people.
ReplyDeleteYork should be kicked off the team immediately, and deserves stiff reprimand from the legal system. This a violent and cowardly act. If he ends up in jail so be it.
From a pure football perspective, which is mostly irrelevant considering the victim is on a feeding tube and will have lifelong effects from this incident, York getting kicked off the team is the best move. It frees a scholarship up to recruit a better player and a better man.
It's not off base. Urban Meyer is known for not caring if his players are good young men. Brady Hoke in my opinion is trying to recruit good character guys. It is also the duty of a football coach to make these boys into good men.
DeleteI'm glad they didn't have video footage back when I got into a fight outside skeepers many moons ago.
ReplyDeleteThis video is sad and makes me cringe as a fan. I was never a fan of York's ability but that's beside the point here. Agree he deserves a long suspension, but I'm not sure booting him off the team is the answer. There should be a path for him to make amends for this stupidity, but it should be a long one.
I'm not absolutely certain that he should be booted, either. I think he will be, but Michigan has had guys get in trouble for drunk driving before without repeat issues. I don't know if he's been in any other trouble, but Graham Glasgow could have easily killed someone by driving drunk, too. It doesn't exactly seem fair that one should get a one-game suspension and the other should get kicked out of school.
DeleteRisky behavior (which has the potential to hurt you or someone else) is one thing, but brutally assaulting someone in a vicious, premeditated manner like that is on another level. Now that there is a video out for all to see, I can't imagine Brandon/Hoke reinstating York.
DeleteIt was a bad, stupid mistake. But if you boot him, this is a potentially life-altering event for the kid. Drunk people do stupid things, and that's no excuse but if you're 18-20 you deserve a second chance IMO. When Griese threw a keg through skeepers window (as legend has it) in the 90s he could have done a lot worse damage to someone.
DeleteLets just say that I'm sure other football players have done more damaging and harmful things to people and gotten less than a one year suspension. It was a punch. It was sucker-punch on full-blast, but it's still a punch. You're probably more likely to kill someone drunk driving than sucker punching. The big difference here is that it's on tape.
It doesn't look remotely pre-meditated. It looks stupid and classless and dangerous, but I don't think York was waiting in line looking to beat anyone up from his body language. The victim here looks confrontational to me.
If I'm Hoke, I would make it very difficult for York to come back, but I wouldn't make it impossible. The program is supposed to be about building character, not just inheriting it.
I think Hoke has done the right thing here by setting the precedent for immediate suspension. This allows this to play out in the court system and see where it all ends up. I think the bigger issue is that this is a vicious attack and under the University of Michigan student code he should be expelled. I know there have been worse things to have happened, but after the black eye with regards to how the Gibbons case was handled this should be an easy decision at the university level not the football level. This would be a best case scenario for Hoke who lets the university decide his punishment and then if he works his way back into good graces with the university he can then work back into the football program. Much like the ND quarterback did (I know different situation, but could be handled similarly).
Deleteabsolute horseshit lank ... they were waiting for the two guys to come. Absolutley irrelevant what what said or done to lead up to this and I am positive this is the second part of something from somewhere earlier. They waited for them and I would also say that Jones while not guilty of assault sure as hell was ready for what was happening. He backs away after keeping the victims attention AND FACES THE VICTIM watching. The victim who could or could not be a douche has HIS HANDS IN HIS POCKETS... Who is confrontational with THEIR HANDS IN THEIR POCKETS ? Also York makes sure that the guy they are not mad at is ushered through and away. This was definitely not a spur of the moment, I reacted in the heat of the moment fight...
DeleteThose two kids were surprised and somewhat submissive in their body language when they saw that York and Jones were there. Probably did not expect whatever happened before to carry on outside of the bar. If it was a legit fight I would say give York absolutely a second chance. This is significantly different. Jones should have a little Hoke/Harden party - he should have helped the kid if he didn't know what York was going to do. He has to be cut - this unfortunately is not a situation where there is anything beyond viciousness and cowardness. This visual supercedes any conceivable doubt that should be granted.
Dude, you are so right!
Delete@Anon
DeleteYou know, I wasn't there, and neither were you I suspect. Your narrative could be right, for all I know, but the kids definitely do not look submissive to me. I don't know what was said or what lead up to this.
Whatever. I'm not really interested in defending York or his actions. In general I think there are worse things than punching somebody - like drunk driving or rape - regardless of how the punch is thrown, and that young people deserve second chances.
Lank - drunk driving is horrible. At one end no one is hurt and it is serious as hell because there is potential to kill, injure, and ruin lives. At the other end it results in killing and ruining lives. I would contend intentionally sucker punching someone as hard as you can in the head to knock them out while directed at only one individual is equally as violent as the worst case of drunk driving. So in your world someone can be a mean sob and intentionally cold-cock people from behind in the skull which often knocks them out and far more often leads to serious head trauma is not the same as someone who intentionally gets in a car knowingly drunk and hurts or kills someone….
Delete@Anon
DeleteI would contend that striking someone with hundreds of pounds of metal, plastic, and rubber is far more likely to kill than your fist.
Intent matters a good deal, but ultimately, it's a lot easier to kill with a 'deadly weapon'.
Again, I have no interest in defending York or what he did. He seems like a punk and I'll shed no tears for him. But, as a grown responsible adult, I look back on stupid fights I got into in college and realize how dumb and dangerous they were and believe I've learned and grown. I didn't need to be booted out of UofM for that to happen.
My actions (and I) were dumb. They weren't as bad as what York did, but fighting and bullshit arguing is a jumbled bag of stupidity and machismo. I do think fighting isn't nearly as dumb and dangerous as getting into a car drunk. They aren't nearly as evil as raping or helping to cover up a rape. They aren't nearly as irredeemable as whatever Larry Harrison was doing.
Michigan has a long history of giving second chances, and in Daryl Stonum's case 3rd and 4th chances sometimes. I didn't like how things went with Stonum, but I think in general people deserve a chance to make up and grow from stupidity.
I wonder what explanation he gave Hoke for the incident. If it was the same lies he told the police, that won't bode well for his chances of remaining on the team.
ReplyDeleteA lot of Michigan fans talk a good game about supporting student-athletes. . .until they make a mistake.
ReplyDeleteYork's actions are impossible to justify, but they cannot be taken back. What can U-M do now to reduce the probability that York is aggressive in the future? If that's the goal, expulsion is not likely to be effective. Permanently cutting ties with him only makes the problem go away for Michigan. It does not help to mold York into a productive member of society or reduce the likelihood that there is another assault.
Give the kid a punishment and a plan, but don't give up on him completely.
I tend to agree.
DeleteKick him out of school. This is not MSU. I don't want that guy to ever play a single down of football at Michigan.
ReplyDelete@TTB Andrew,
ReplyDeleteI would argue just the opposite of your premise. Student athletes sign their letter of intent to a particular school and I am quite certain that their are conditions in that scholarship about adhering to a student code of conduct.
When the student breaks the law it is the University's duty to either expell or suspend the student in accordance with the student code of conduct. It is the court system's responsibility to determine punishment and to determine the path for which the law breaker will be rehabilitated into society. The only obligation the football team has for this young man ended when he violated the student code of conduct and attacked another individual. It is not the football program's obligation to rehabilitate this kid, nor is it the university's.
This young man has much larger concerns than football. Now if Hoke or any other coach chooses to be a mentor to this young man in the future that is a personal choice. I don't think you put that on the program just because he "was" a player.
"It's not my job".
DeleteTechnically true, but Bo, Lloyd and most of the coaches that have helped define the whole Michigan man thing would talk about how leadership means more than just doing what you "owe".
York IS a player. For now at least. I think highly enough of Hoke that he'll want to do more than just cut this kid loose as quickly as possible for the sake of PR.
Hoosegow = jail.
ReplyDelete