FORMER PLAYERS
TE Erick All (Iowa): All tore his ACL this past season but finished as Iowa's leading receiver, catching 21 passes for 299 yards and 3 touchdowns. Despite having another year of eligibility if he wanted it, he declared for the NFL Draft.
WR Andrel Anthony (Oklahoma): Anthony caught 27 passes for 429 yards and 1 touchdown before suffering a season-ending ACL injury.
QB Alan Bowman (Oklahoma State): Bowman led Oklahoma State to a 10-4 record this season. Things started off a little rocky, but he ultimately locked down the starting job and went 304/501 (60.7%) for 3,460 yards, 15 touchdowns, and 14 interceptions. He also ran 26 times for 24 yards and 2 touchdowns. He will return to the Cowboys in 2024 for a seventh season of eligibility.
Hit the jump for more.
CB Cam Calhoun (Utah): Calhoun played in just two games for Michigan in 2023. He entered the transfer portal and committed to Utah.
P George Caratan (UConn): Caratan punted 61 times for 2,752 yards (45.1 yards/punt) this past season. That punting average ranked #18 nationally.
OG Zach Carpenter (Indiana Miami): Carpenter started all twelve games for Indiana at center and was named Honorable Mention All-Big Ten, but he transferred to Miami after the season.
WR Darrius Clemons (Oregon State): Clemons made 3 catches for 33 yards and played in eleven games for the Wolverines in 2023.
S Damani Dent (Charlotte): Dent did not play at Michigan in 2022, and then he didn't play at all at Charlotte in 2023. He is now in the transfer portal looking for a third home in three seasons.
RB Leon Franklin (Tennessee Tech): Franklin ran 11 times for 33 yards and 1 touchdown and caught 1 pass for 6 yards throughout the season for Michigan. After the season he announced his intentions to transfer to FCS Tennessee Tech.
CB Darion Green-Warren (Nevada): Green-Warren did not get on the field for Nevada at the beginning of the season and was off the roster by midyear. As far as I know, he has not landed anywhere else yet.
TE Louis Hansen (UConn): Hansen caught 2 passes for 33 yards while playing in eleven games for the Huskies this past season.
QB Ren Hefley (Middle Tennessee): Hefley did not see game action this past season for Middle Tennessee State.
WR A.J. Henning (Northwestern): Henning caught 45 passes for 418 yards (9.3 yards/catch) and 4 touchdowns this past season. He also ran 27 times for 110 yards and 1 touchdown. He will return to Northwestern in 2024.
TE Matt Hibner (???): Hibner made 2 tackles on special teams while playing in seven total games for the Wolverines. He entered the transfer portal after the season.
LB Nikhai Hill-Green (Charlotte): Hill-Green made 73 tackles, 9 tackles for loss, 2 sacks, 1 forced fumble, and 3 pass breakups while playing in eleven games this past season. Following the season, he decided to enter the transfer portal.
K Cole Hussung (Louisville): The former walk-on kicker handled 4 kickoffs in one game this past season, totaling 3 touchbacks.
WR Giles Jackson (Washington): Jackson preserved his redshirt and will come back to college football in 2024. So far he has not entered the transfer portal after head coach Kalen DeBoer departed for Alabama. Jackson caught 14 passes for 106 yards and 1 touchdown and returned 3 punts for 10 yards in seven games this past year.
WR George Johnson III (UMass FAU): Johnson caught 35 passes for 421 yards and 3 touchdowns while playing in twelve games for UMass. After the season he entered the transfer portal and will play for FAU in 2024.
DE Aaron Lewis (Rutgers): Lewis made 51 tackles, 5 tackles for loss, 3 sacks, 10 quarterback hurries, and 2 pass breakups while playing in thirteen games for the Scarlet Knights. He could have tested the NFL draft waters, but he announced he would return to Piscataway in 2024.
QB Cade McNamara (Iowa): McNamara started the first five games of the season but tore his ACL, ending his year prematurely. He had completed 46/90 passes (51.1%) for 505 yards, 4 touchdowns, and 3 interceptions up to that point. He has announced that he will return to Iowa in 2024.
QB Joe Milton (Tennessee): Milton completed 229/354 passes (64.7%) for 20 touchdowns and 5 interceptions while starting the first twelve games of the year, opting out of the bowl game to prepare for the draft. Milton also ran 78 times for 299 yards and 7 touchdowns.
S Jordan Morant (Mississippi State): Morant had 7 tackles and 1 tackle for loss in twelve games for the Bulldogs this past season.
S R.J. Moten (Florida): Moten made 8 tackles and 2 tackles for loss in six games for the Gators.
DE Eyabi Okie-Anoma (Charlotte): Okie-Anoma made 56 tackles, 11.5 tackles for loss, 5.5 sacks, 10 quarterback hurries, 1 forced fumble, and 1 pass breakup for Charlotte. He is going into the 2024 NFL Draft.
DT George Rooks (Boston College): Rooks made 29 tackles, 2.5 tackles for loss, 1.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, and 4 quarterback hurries while playing in twelve games.
OG Nolan Rumler (Kent State): Rumler was a fifth year senior in 2023 and played in just two games for Kent State.
CB Andre Seldon (New Mexico State TCU): Seldon made 53 tackles, 3 tackles for loss, 1 forced fumble, and 7 pass breakups this season. After the season he transferred to TCU.
CB Myles Sims (Georgia Tech): Sims made 37 tackles, 1 interception, and 5 pass breakups while playing in twelve games for the Yellowjackets.
LB Deuce Spurlock (Florida): Spurlock played in three games on special teams for Florida in 2023.
OT Jack Stewart (UConn): Stewart played in eleven games for the Huskies.
RB C.J. Stokes (Charlotte): After running 4 times for 8 yards while playing in two games for Michigan this past season, Stokes decided to transfer to Charlotte.
RB Christian Turner (Indiana): Turner ran 52 times for 227 yards and 2 touchdowns while playing in twelve games. He also caught 4 passes for 0 yards and returned 1 kickoff for 3 yards. He did not touch the ball in the final five games of the season.
DE Taylor Upshaw (Arizona): Upshaw made 31 tackles, 11.5 tackles for loss, 8.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 6 quarterback hurries, and 1 pass breakup. He is entering the 2024 NFL Draft.
TE Dan Villari (Syracuse): Villari started the season as a backup tight end, but he was playing quarterback by the end of the year. Mostly a running QB, he ran 55 times for 326 yards (5.9 yards/carry) and 2 touchdowns. He completed 23/33 passes for 177 yards, 1 touchdown, and 2 interceptions. He also caught 20 passes for 180 yards and 3 touchdowns.
LB Joey Velazquez (???): Velazquez, who doubles as a baseball player, did not play in any games in 2023 and entered the transfer portal.
WR/CB Amorion Walker (Ole Miss): Walker played in six games this past season for Michigan and entered the transfer portal after the national championship game. He is now committed to Ole Miss.
DE Julius Welschof (Charlotte): Welschof made 4 tackles and 2 quarterback hurries while playing in the first four games of the season.
LB Cornell Wheeler (Kansas): Wheeler made 28 tackles, 4 tackles for loss, 1 sack, 1 interception, 1 forced fumble, and 1 pass breakup as a redshirt junior. The plan is for him to return to Kansas in 2024.
It's not too late for Michigan to recruit Alan Bowman back via the portal!
ReplyDeleteDitto for Andrel Anthony.
I hope All enjoyed his time at Iowa. His announcement post was longer than something I'd write! He seems grateful but I have to imagine he would have had a more rewarding fall at Michigan instead... coulda had a great year instead of a good one.
Henning was a key contributor on Northwestern during their surprisingly respectable season. Love to see it.
Some real surprises to me in how little Hefley, Moten, and Rumler did in their new schools.
Aaron Lewis is probably wise to come back for a last season. Could play his way into a draft spot.
Winning a national championship would have been better for All...but maybe A.J. Barner was a key cog in the offense that led to the national championship. Perhaps with All, there would have been no Barner.
DeleteI was also surprised how little Hefley played. He was a big piece at his last two stops, and then he did nothing at MTSU this year. That has to be frustrating for him.
Yeah I agree. Don't think Barner comes if All stays and I think Barner was better than All and will be drafted high. It worked out well for Michigan.
DeleteA healthy All would have been just fine as TE2 for this championship squad. He had some drops that gave him a bad rep in 2o2o, but more than made up for it in 21 ... heck of a blocker too
DeleteStill, Barner worked out & All was happy to move on. Those who stay
I like All as a player but I think Barner was on par with performance but also brought an additional element of intangible character/leadership that was a great fit with the championship team. It'll be interesting to see which of them is drafted higher in the NFL, though both could possibly be UDFAs.
DeleteIf I had to guess, I would say Barner will get drafted higher. He's a little bigger and a better blocker. I think All is a slightly more fluid athlete, but not enough to overcome the size/blocking deficit. But they're two different kinds of players, because Barner is more of an in-line guy while All is more of an H-back. So it might just depend on the team's needs.
DeleteBarner is project much higher in everything I've seen. With that said I would not put it past All to be successful in the NFL.
DeleteGood post. With the portal this list is going to continue to grow in future years. I learn something in each edition. Thanks.
ReplyDeletePlayers I would consider having back for 24:
ReplyDeleteAndrel Anthony
Andre Seldon
Eric All
Aaron Lewis
oki
Amorion Walker (WR)
Myles Simms
George Rooks
That's it. Even with 5th, 7th, 9th(!) years the others wouldn't sniff the field
All went to the draft. Upshaw did too, but he would have been nice to have back as a vet presence IMO.
DeleteMilton became a better QB than I thought that he was capable of being ... albeit after six years.
ReplyDeleteI caught Tennessee twice this year. It looked to me that the difference in Joe Milton was in his reading. He was catching the snap and getting it out for the easy 4-6 yards the D was offering, then lining up and looking to the sideline for the next play. Whoever runs Tennessee's offense is pretty slick, Milton did a nice job with it.
I'm thinking that If he doesn't get drafted, he'll be one of the first guys signing as a free agent.
If he gets a bonus, I'm still thinking that buying that Juggs machine would be a real good move.
Roanman
Having done a little studying of Josh Heupel's offense, I think he makes it extremely easy for quarterbacks. He also had one of the highest screen rates in the country. I think Milton and Tennessee ended up being a good fit. But even some Tennessee fans were fed up with Milton by the end of the season and poking fun at his (lack of) accuracy.
DeleteIf Josh Gattis had ACTUALLY been a "speed in space" guy instead of a poser when it comes to such, Milton might have been able to have more success.
I don't think Milton's success needs the qualifier -- if he wasn't getting the 6th year he probably wouldn't have hung around to be Hooker's backup. Moreover, he's the same age as many 5th year guys (born in 2000 like McNamara and Rattler) in contrast to say Sam Hartman who was born in 99. Part of why Milton was always considered a raw prospect is he didn't get all the QB camps that many other big time QBs get in high school or otherwise spend an extra year maturing before entering college.
DeletePer PFF draft rankings he's between Rattler, Travis, Hartman, and Tagavailoa. I know many on here have been dismissive of Joe since 2019, and that includes accusations of being a "system" QB whenever he has produced well. However, at this point it looks like the NFL thinks he's worth drafting.
https://www.pff.com/draft/big-board?season=2024
Agree with Thunder though that Milton wasn't put in a position to succeed at Michigan the way he was at Tennessee. Ended up working out for the best for Michigan and for Milton that they split after 2020. Win win!
Milton did throw a lot of screen's in Heupels system but he ranked pretty highly in average air yards and depth of target. They love to split those WRs extra wide and throw screens but this was not a dink/dunk offense - they took a lot of shots.
DeleteIf Milton wasn't put in a position to succeed, it's because a Jim Harbaugh QB must be able to make pre- & post-snap reads. Milton struggled mightily with this in year6, let alone year3
DeleteI would compare Milton's draft stock with what was written here about Michael Cox: some GM will fall in love with the arm, and - w/pro days having no pressure - fall for the "potential"
@JE
DeleteEvery QB is drafted for their potential. The NFL does not care if you threw for 20 thousand yards in college they care if you can do that in the NFL perhaps. I know you don't agree, but Milton produced well at the college level because he played well. That's why he's going to be drafted (probably).
--------------------------------
"If Milton wasn't put in a position to succeed, it's because a Jim Harbaugh QB must be able to make pre- & post-snap read"
LOL. Always with the not remotely subtle shade. Reminder that despite clearly outplaying injured MIlton against Rutgers, Cade's performance in 2020 were no better than Milton's statistically. Cade never had a game as good as Minnesota.
The offensive collapse by end of the season was comprehensive and extended beyond the QB position alone. Nobody - not Cade, not Joe, was put in a position to succeed that year. But Joe playing hurt was a contributing factor. He has spoken about this and so have others around the program.
The biggest issue in 2020 was OL injuries and chaos (3/5 starters were hurt and 1/5 starters remained in the same position between Minn and PSU) injuries, COVID opt outs, lack of practice/prep. Michigan, under Harbaugh, has always wanted to run a more complicated scheme than their opposition generally does and 2020 was not a great time for that. The missing pieces in the lineup exacerbated the problem. We all know 2020 was a fluke now, and it was painful at the time but it seems clear that this turbo-charged the development of some of the young OL who would become veteran leaders in the following 3 years.
https://mgoblog.com/sites/default/files/2020-11/FFFF%20PSU%20Defense%202020.jpg
Look at this depth chart and look at the freshman eligible players on the depth chart. Zinter got a cyan because he was a true freshman.
---------------------------------------------
The obvious difference between Michael Cox and Milton is that Milton started at Michigan and Tennessee while Cox ducked off to UMass to get playing time beyond special teams. Milton produced something like 5 thousand more yards. He won't be drafted to return kicks either.
You keep acting like Milton's " "potential" " is hypothetical but also acknowledge he was successful starter (above average production) in the best league in college football. So not so hypothetical in college and hypothetical in the NFL -- just like Williams, Nix, McCarthy, Penix, Hartman, etc.
We've had this discussion so many times I don't have to bother reading the Diary above ... in line with the other thread where goalposts are moved & caveats applied, I'll just agree: Milton had a good season, of throwing screens
DeleteInteresting and what percent of his completions were screens?
DeleteI don't recall, but we discussed on another thread that Brian & MGo said it was most in the nation
DeleteYear6 was not much different than 2o2o, when his "good game" was a bunch of easy throws to the flats & beyond 1o only to a wiiide open target. Post snap reads were a concern then, in Knoxville and on his draft outlook
But I agree, some GM will likely roll the dice based on the arm, not unlike Cox & his speed
I don't agree and I don't see the comparison to Cox in any respect.
DeleteMilton had strong depth of target and air yards. He was successful downfield. The offense does throw a lot of screens - it also goes downfield a lot. It's the intermediate stuff that Tenn avoids (relative to others and especially TE-loving Michigan).
The comparison is having a special talent (speed or arm) that a GM deems worth risking a draft pick on
DeleteIt's very common. Roanman would rather take a chubby Tackle for depth, but some may believe that a few more years on pine with elite coaching would be worth taking Milton. That's reasonable, and not unprecedented
LOL is that why Michael Cox got drafted? His 4.58 40 time?
Deletehttps://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=28866
Well here's one analyst's take LOL:
"Cox didn't exactly set the world on fire in his one season with UMass (710 yards on 198 carries), but he showed enough for Giants general manager Jerry Reese to take a chance on the Michigan transfer towards the very end of the draft. With good size and a lack of blazing speed, Cox projects to more of a full back with the Giants, but he's shown he's no slouch ball in his hands, as well."
He couldn't get any playing time at Michigan, transferred to UMass and struggled, and an optimistic GM threw a dart and he got barely drafted. Cox was the second to last pick in the draft. Thanks to a string of injuries he got to play in the NFL but did nothing, as indicated by his college career.
There is no comparison to Milton who was a multiyear starter and produced thousands of yards at an elite program (sorry meant to say two) and is widely expected to be drafted.
LyinLank, I said Special Talent, and listed two examples. But the comparison remains: both are reeeaches that some GM will gamble on
DeleteLet's correct your lie: Joe did not throw for thousandS of yards in Ann Arbor, he threw for A thousand ... in three years
*ONE year as a starter ... select games spread over FIVE others on the bench ...
Zero integrity
LOL. He was runner up to Mr Irrelevant. Some might say there is no such thing as a reach at the point in the draft and a lot of agents. Many UDFAs are getting bigger contracts than this spot to the point that agents don't even necessarily want guys getting drafted there.
DeleteCox's situation is nothing like Milton's. One succeeded in college and the other failed. You THOUGHT they were the same - that Milton needed to duck to a lower level to get a starting job like Cox did. But you were proven wrong and you were proven 3 years ago. It was a bad take then - because Milton earned a starting job at Michigan and Cox never did - and it was almost immediately proven wrong and then subsequently proven MORE wrong in the last 3 years. Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Always wrong LOL.
No lies told. You're just mad that you're so wrong about Joe Milton - YEAR 6 of your bad takes.
6 thousand yards at Michigan and Tennesee with vast majority of them coming in his 21 starts.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/joe-milton-2.html
Sorry you don't like the facts. Stick to insults and emojis I guess. You're good at one of those.
I LOVE FACTS ... ALL OF THEM
DeleteMilton is a fringe draft projection ... anywhere from 5th Round to UDFA. Read the profiles, it'll sound VERY familiar
They're the same. I am right
Cox was not projected to be drafted. It was a surprise that a guy who couldn't get off the bench over 4 years and 2 different coaching staffs at Michigan and subsequently struggled to produce at UMass was drafted to the NFL.
DeleteMilton is projected to be drafted, started games over 4 seasons at Michigan and Tenn, won an Orange Bowl MVP, and led a top 25 team with a top 25 offense to a strong season. If even he's not drafted he had a good college career.
Which you were wrong about. Tip of the iceberg on that tho.
Patterson's health will dictate Milton's transfer - wrong
DeleteMilton < McCaffrey - wrong
Milton needs to go to D3 to start - wrong
Milton throws a ton of INTs - wrong
Milton won't be good as a starter at Tenn - wrong
MIlton will get beat out by a freshman - wrong
Milton mostly just threw screens at Tenn - wrong
Milton's projection is anywhere from 5th to UDFA - wrong
https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2024/consensus-big-board-2024?pos=QB
Milton is a consensus 5th round pick. That's the middle of his projections. He is projected anywhere from the top of round 4 (pick 107) to UDFA. Peers include Hartman, Tagovailoa, Travis, and Rattler.
More lies from JE. Every accusation is confession.
I didn't say Patterson's health dictated Milton's transfer ... That's how you earn "LyinLank"
DeleteI said he'd transfer if he didn't start, as did others. He did. I was right
I didn't say Milton needed D3 to start, I said Milton needed all the snaps he could get, and G5/FCS was the best route for the max reps in live games ... He sat the bench for two more years, and his draft profile after SIX yearsreads like his UFR after his BEST game in Year3. I was right
Milton threw UGLY interceptions, right into the chests of unassuming defenders. At MICHIGAN in years 1-3, and at Tennessee in Years 4&6. I was right
Milton got beat by a RS Freshman at MICHIGAN, and transferred. I was right
I said Milton threw more screens & under 1oyds than any other QB. I was right
Depending where you look, Milton is projected as a 5th through UDFA. I was right
https://bvmsports.com/2024/01/15/2024-nfl-draft-analyzing-the-next-6-quarterbacks-and-their-fit-with-the-denver-broncos/
First three results on DDG regarding Milton, in the last month:
Delete- Joe Milton has potential but would require substantial development, with the possibility of being pursued as an undrafted free agent due to the team's limited draft picks
- Concerns:
Inconsistent mechanics
Deep ball accuracy
Older prospect
- He struggles with finding the right amount of air, and touch to put on passes down the field. His accuracy and ball placement remain inconsistent. Milton's mechanics are a big part of the issue. He tends to over-stride when stepping into throws leading to poor ball placement and high passes. When pressured, if Milton doesn’t use his legs, he will stand flat-footed to throw from his upper bod
- After committing to Michigan in 2018, Milton III could not latch on as the Wolverines starting QB, which prompted him to transfer to Tennessee
- Here is where Milton needs to improve. His arm is so good it often results in him putting too much sauce on the football. Here he overthrows an easy score. Reel it back sometimes, dude
- It’s not all roses and butterflies for Big Joe. On the first play of scrimmage for Tennessee he makes two bad decisions - throws it into traffic, and then catches the ball behind the line of scrimmage
- Inconsistency is what has plagued Milton over the years. We know he can throw the ball one hundred yards, but he severely underthrows this deep ball which should have led to an interception
- Milton came back down to earth in this game. He wasn’t awful, but he made some plays that leave you scratching your head
- This game was another polarizing performance from the fifth year Senior, as he made a bundle of careless plays
- Midway through the second quarter Milton finds himself under pressure and throws a pop-up to center field that ultimately results in an INT. Very questionable decision-making
- Weaknesses
Inconsistency
Too many check-downs and quick screens, which inflated his completion percentage
Overthrows
Inexperience
- Dalton Miller - Pro Football Network
“Is Joe Milton an NFL player? The short answer is no.
Josh Heupel’s offense already makes the evaluation process difficult. The structure and concepts he runs at Tennessee are a far cry from NFL structures. In Tennessee’s offense, the answers are on the back of the test, and nothing is keeping you from flipping the page over and cheating.”
@ Lank 11:05 a.m.
DeleteThis is why I can't take you seriously when you argue about the semantics of labeling Donovan Edwards's season (good, bad, good for a backup, bad for a backup, great, etc.):
"Cox's situation is nothing like Milton's. One succeeded in college and the other failed."
Cox did not fail. He got a scholarship to the University of Michigan and then earned a starting job at another FBS school, and then he got drafted - based on his production and/or his skills, it doesn't matter - and spent a few years in the NFL. Even his retirement from the NFL was judged in a court of law to have been partly a function of poor medical treatment, or perhaps his career would have lasted longer.
I guess being an FBS starter and NFL draftee is failure...
...but being a Michigan backup is "great."
Your words start to lose meaning when you throw them around so loosely and haphazardly.
Thunder I take your point about Cox being successful in a way. He graduated from Michigan and he played there for 4 years and then he played at UMass so yes he was successful in that sense. He is a great athlete and certainly, if you're comparing to me and anyone else who never played beyond high school, he is a great football player. It's all relative of course.
DeleteThis part is not. Cox was NOT drafted for his production. You are wrong there. He didn't produce very well. As a starter, he had 773 yards and 5 TDs his final year at UMass. As a backup, Edwards had 746 yards and 5 TDs last year.
Joe Milton was a starter, at Michigan and at Tennessee. That's the comparison being made here.
Donovan Edwards was ALSO a starter at Michigan. Donovan Edwards has 362 touches at Michigan in 3 years. Michael Cox had 20 in 4 years. Edwards has 2,376 yards in 3 years. Michael Cox had 953 yards in 5.
So yeah, I'm comfortable saying Edwards and Milton are great in comparison to Cox. And that Cox is great compared to you and me.
"I didn't say Patterson's health dictated Milton's transfer ... That's how you earn "LyinLank" I said he'd transfer if he didn't start, as did others. He did. I was right"
Deletehttps://touch-the-banner.com/2019-season-countdown-55-joe-milton/
First comment.
" I can see Milton transferring, especially if Shea finishes the season healthy again"
Quote. Proof with a link. Dismantled.
Shea was healthy for all of 2019 so that had nothing to do with anything and Milton beat McCaffrey. See the next
Read the next statement for a prediction that does hold up.
Read down below for you arguing that Brandon Peters (who was not good) wasn't beat out by Milton (who was good). This story would get repeated with Mcaffrey (who also was not good).
Racking up the L's, but what's new.
"Milton got beat by a RS Freshman at MICHIGAN, and transferred. I was right
DeleteI said Milton threw more screens & under 1oyds than any other QB. I was right"
Please quote where you said this and link to data that proves you right. Or are you lying?
I'll wait.
"Depending where you look, Milton is projected as a 5th through UDFA. I was right""
Proved wrong already multiple times. 5th round is the consensus. The range is 1st round through UDFA. You were wrong.
Please quote where you said this and link to data that proves you right. Or are you lying?
DeleteI'll wait.
Silence is golden.
The NFL values accuracy. Milton is inaccurate. He was a good QB last year in his bowl game against Clemson who may or may not have had a full roster of regular season starters. Milton started and played against Clemson mostly only because the guy in front of him declined to play in order to end up with the Lions.
ReplyDeleteHe had the best, arguably only solid year of his career as a sixth year player in a very Qb friendly system throwing easy balls by design. Yes he threw a bunch of balls downfield, too. He missed often enough to not have shaken the critique of inaccurate.
Everybody drafts on potential. I don't even understand what that means in this conversation. In Milton's case, he's a big strong dude with a huge, by anyone's standard arm. That'll get him some looks, I'd look at him if I had a system that called for my QB to be a running threat, but to get serious play in the NFL, he's gonna be able to be reliable throwing into the very small windows that come with playing against NFL defenses. A lot of guys are gonna keep looking after they take that tantalizing look at Milton on the hoof because ... film ...he's never demonstrated that he can maintain the accuracy they need.
And when I say, "need" I mean it. What NFL stands for really is for Not For Long which is exactly why managements are gonna be real reluctant to place many chips betting on Milton. Mostly because he has a bunch less potential than a whole bunch of other guys.
I have Milton in a bundle with Tagovialoa the second. I think I'd rather have some happy go lucky, seriously overweight defensive tackle in the sixth, than either of them.
Roanman
Even running the ball is a problem; he's hesitant. Not unlike post-snap reads, Milton is unsure or lacks confidence to take off when his second read isn't RUN
DeleteThen, his instincts as a runner are non-existent. He runs in a straight line, regardless of what or who is in front of him
Big. Strong. Tempting. But he desperately needed all the LIVE snaps possible in six years. Instead, he sat on pine
Milton started when Hooker was injured in '22 and Hooker started when Milton was injured in '21. Bowl sit outs had nothing to do with it.
DeleteI'm not sure who is arguing that accuracy is not important in the NFL. It's also important in college where Milton proved to be very successful.
The number of guys Milton has more potential than is a lot larger than the number he has less than. Kind of implicit in his draft projection eh? Amazing he's still considered a draft pick when all he did was "sat on pine". LOL
Milton won the job in K. noxville like he did in A2, and perhaps get drafted under the same presumption: potential is off the charts in shorts & without a pass rush or coverage to
DeleteMilton lost the job the same way too: poor performance. Injuries are an excuse. He threw his best few passes against Indiana, the game after he hurt his thumb; he was already stinking up the offense before whatever happened at Tennessee, and was in warmups that same day
Back to caveats. Accuracy is fine, throwing screens
@JE
DeleteI know you want to dismiss or minimize everything he has accomplished but at the college level he produced. Top 20 team, SEC starters, all those stats.
All the talk about impressing off people of the field seemed to be realized on the field with pads on. So we can dismiss again Joe as being all "potential" but you were already proven wrong once with this take....
I don't agree. I wouldn't draft Joe because I DON'T see the potential. Some successful college QBs don't translate to the next level. But I've said that about numerous guys who have so maybe I'm wrong.
I don't think I'm minimizing
DeleteHe was on a top1o team, that won with defense & a run game, despite an offensive coach who is Air Raid
He did start, and got benched ... twice. In Year6, he started over a TrFR. That same TrFR went on to face a higher rated defense and posted similar numbers, without the I've reliance on screens
Look up Joe's draft profile. The narrative matches his Minnesota UFR at best, and mentions his reads, accuracy, hesitancy to run, and a lot of other things I am writing
You don't see potential. Cool. It shouldn't be upsetting or even surprising that that we disagree
@JE
DeleteYou continue to project upset feelings. I'm sorry if you feel that way. This really shouldn't be upsetting though.
Joe wasn't reliant on screens. This is a lie. The data to disprove this have been posted probably a dozen times on this site -- from listing out the long pass plays, to depth of target, to air yards, to ypa. The stats back up the eye test. Joe threw deep a lot. That's the offense he played in. And it was a top 25 offense.
Joe's draft profile says...he will get drafted. He will be drafted on potential like anyone else. I don't really think it's there but that's my personal opinion.
Things that are not opinions.
Joe Milton was the starter on a top 25 team and top 25 offense in 2023 in the best league in college football.
Joe Milton lost his job to Hendon Hooker while at Tennessee but stepped in when Hooker got hurt and was the orange bowl MVP.
Jim Harbaugh and Josh Heupel recruited Joe Milton and then chose to start him. They both did so after their teams practiced in pads.
Joe Milton produced over 6,000 yards and 49TDs with high passer rating (147) and low interception rate (11 in 650 attempts).
Joe Milton is widely projected to be drafted into the NFL as of January 2024.
Joe Milton has started games at Michigan or Tennessee in each of the last 4 seasons.
None of those facts are consistent with any of your observations about Milton in the last 5 years. You have been dead wrong over and over and over again. I applaud your resilience in the face of the facts.
What data? I'm the one who shared every snap videos, his first in the nation screen rate, and draft profiles that point to these same points & more
DeleteYour "not opinions" ask come with caveats, listed above. Don't tell all of the story, tell it all
I'm right, and the tape & scouting reports agree
The guy you said needed to go to D3 to get a starting job is poised to be drafted in the NFL after starting at Tennessee and leading them on a top 20 season. You couldn't have been more wrong.
DeleteHere's the individual data if you prefer to gloss over team success and role. Here's some stats that prove you wrong if you prefer to quantify things:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/joe-milton-2.html
https://www.cfb-graphs.com/qb_table
Milton is not McCarthy but his average depth of target was 9.3 yards to McCarthy's 9.5. McCarthy also only threw screens so....wait a minute. Let me check my notes something is off here. let's go to another stat. LOL
Milton is not Ewers but he threw for more air yards than Quinn Ewers and Will Howard, but sure -- it was all just screens obviously that's all K-State and Texas did as well....wait a minute. Divide by attempts and suddenly he's ahead of Nix, Tagavailoa, and Jordan Travis. All of those guys only throw screens obviously...
LyinLank, you're doing it again. It's getting late, so I stopped after the first column made me laugh:
Delete- EPA: 8th in the SEC, during a down year for the conference. In fact, Joe's EPA is much closer to last than first, or even second
Learn to watch the tape ... it's all there in the every snap videos. Also, read his draft profile & the UFR from Minnesota ... not much changed, because he spent his LOOONG college career on the bench. Starting for an FCS or MAC would have benefited Joe through the Harbaugh rule: you get better at football by playing football
I was right
Here you go back to insults. There are no lies told here except your statements. You asked for evidence and I gave it. You dodge your argument about screens and move the goalposts to EPA. You dodge your argument about needing to go to D3 to start - he started games each of the last 4 years at Tenn and Michgain -- elite programs.
DeleteHe spent his college career on the bench? Yeah, I'm the liar. LOL.
I'll post it again.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/joe-milton-2.html
8th in the SEC in EPA. That's the best counter you have? Yep, still proves you wrong on your Milton takes. He could be last in the SEC and he still proved you wrong.
You haven't been right about Milton once. Facts.
Happy to engage in civil debate if you want or we can trade insults again which seems to be your MO.
EPA was a stat on YOUR link ... not even YOU agree with you
DeleteCloser to last than 1st ... or 2nd ... MUCH closer
ALL OF THE FACTS: he started games and then got benched.
He started when the other guy was injured. The offense plummeted as playcalling adjusted to his lack of reads
Look, I know you have all day, but I don't. Pull a few Every Snap videos. Chart for yourself. You'll find your *observations* lining up with MGo UFR & draft profiles. He needed MOAR snaps, not pine
*unless you lie to yourself
EPA was one of the stats at the link. Tackles was another at another link. If you want to talk about how Joe Milton only had 1 career tackle, by all means go for it. But I'll tell you that's dodging the point because you were talking about him only throwing screens. A stance that is destroying by.....facts. Watch the games and you won't be so wrong every time. If that's enough do some self reflection on locking your crusty brains into overtly wrong stances.
DeleteNot even you believe you is another confession.
" he started games and then got benched."
2020 got benched for the final game of the year after being hurt
2021 won the starting job, got hurt, Hooker stepped in and wally pipp'd him. look it up if you don't know.
2022 backup from day 1, stepped in when Hooker was hurt, never benched
2023 starter from day 1 and never got benched.
So 1/4 JE. Nice try.
Milton was the starting QB on a top 20 team, put up good stats, and is headed for getting taken in the NFL. He didn't need more of anything -- you were wrong, you are wrong. and you know it. So you have to result to insults like a child.
Milton's Tenn offense was a top 25 unit. The "plummet" from being a top 5 unit was after losing 4 guys in the top 3 rounds of the NFL draft. But yeah let's put it all on Milton. If only there was some way to know what Milton would have done in that situation...
Deletehttps://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401442019
Was EPA on your link or not? I had to stop, because he was closer to last than even second ... in a down year for the conference ... once again, your large volume post was in hopes of overwhelming, but easily dismantled
DeleteYES, plummeted. Look at our old discussions over the season, where you cried "unfair" because the drop was in comparison to Heisman candidate Hooker
You're dodging. Don't know how to to look at & assess the Every Snap videos. Your confirmation bias has you ignoring the Draft Profiles. It's okay, it would be against your true self, but I encourage you to just TRY
Try honestly. Try good faith. Just once
Tackles and EPA were both on the link. Lots of other information that was different than what I spelled out to you in words. Not for the first time. But you dodge because you know you can't back up your lies.
DeleteThe next time you dismantle ANY argument of mine will be the first. As I did in 2023 I will encourage you to call me out. One quote. One fact that disproves it. You won't because you can't.
Me saying that comparing one guy to Spencer Petras and another to Hendon Hooker is apples and oranges holds up. True then, true now.
I'm linking to draft profiles. I'm licking to the CONSENSUS of the draft projections. Both of them prove you wrong. They prove your take from 4 years ago wrong and they prove your statement from 4 days ago.
These are the facts. They prove you wrong. You are encouraged to try the same methodology (again) but everyone reading this knows it's not gonna happen.
You've been grasping at this "send me every snap" argument for a year now as if you can't google it yourself. LMGTFY. Here you go. I watched it two years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99XQsOSRrkk
I'll be specific about your dodge. The one I called out above.
DeleteYou claim that Milton's stats are screen-dependant.But the stats (linked) say that his yards per attempt, his air yards, and his average depth of target are all strong and not indicative of a guy just making easy throws near the LOS.
"Milton had a good season, of throwing screens"
A statement you made. Evidence that contradicts it, with links. This is dismantling.
Changing the subject and moving the goal posts is not dismantling it is deflecting. Called out. That may not happen at the suburban sacramento rec gym, but it's happening here.
Joe Milton needed to go to D3 to get enough snaps to be successful in college, JE said.
DeleteJoe Milton attempted more passes in college than Tom Brady. Tom Brady did pretty well and did not seem hindered professionally by not starting every game or getting every snap. In fact, his resilience and patience are widely hailed as part of his development story.
"Try good faith"
Everything answered here
Delete#iwasright
http://touchthebanner.blogspot.com/2024/01/whats-on-sherrone-moores-checklist.html
cAsEd cLoSeD
Da nile ain't just a river.
Deletehttps://twitter.com/cadegoat2/status/1753815518820053154
ReplyDeleteMilton's ADOT of 9.3 (linked below) is right there with JJ .
https://www.cfb-graphs.com/qb_table
Milton is not McCarthy or Williams, but his average depth of target was 9.3 yards. This tells you that he was not just reliant on dink and dunk stuff, in fact he was LESS reliant on it than most QBs including most of the guys projected to go in the draft ahead of him.
So let's review some of the narratives on TTB since Milton left.
2020 narrative: INTs are problem!
result: wrong. 30 TDs to 5 INTs in 500 attempts.
2021 narrative: very inaccurate and tons of bad reads
result: wrong. ~9 YPA, 65% completion percentage, 160 passer rating, 70+ QBR
2022 narrative: numbers may look good but he's not starter material
result: wrong. started final 14 games of his career and led a top 25 team and top 25 offense in 2023
2023 narrative: yeah OK but it's just a system that makes everything easy and it's mostly just throwing screens
result: wrong. depth of target above average and on par with most guys getting drafted ahead of him. projected to be drafted in NFL which tends to pass on system-dependant players.
LyinLank, the Court of JE has reviewed your appeal and found that you continue to mislead, including the the following:
Delete- no one cares about Depth of Target when the QB sucks at hitting the deep ball.
"While Milton's physical traits are apparent, he still struggles with deep accuracy. He completed 28.6% of his passes of 20-plus air yards (tied for 104th in the FBS)"
https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/38496853/ranking-top-2024-nfl-draft-quarterbacks-hot-board-team-fits
You also continue to lie about the INTs, it was about how ugly they were - his inability to read the coverage and put it in defender's chests, from spring ball Michael Barrett, to Bama Safety ... or the arm punts to Florida & in the Senior Bowl ... Joe will have to hope some GM loves his cartoon arm, and working on crap that stats don't show, and non-football mind like yours miss:
https://x.com/precise_stc/status/1753851459425235323?s=20
As I say, try good faith ... on the next debate. Regarding Joe Milton, the CASE IS CLOSED
Moving the goal posts again.
DeleteWho said Joe was exceptionally accurate downfield?
Did Milton attempt a lot of downfield throws or did he only throw screens?
Did Milton successfully avoid throwing many INTs?
You dodge to make this subjective but won't change the fact that Joe started at Tenn, led a top 25 team, a top 25 offense, won an orange bowl mvp and outproduced Tom Brady's college career. All the rando twitter links in the world won't change that.
Joe is a joke and lank is a liar. Every accusation is a confession. Every time JE.
cAsEd cloSeD
DeleteCase closed has no Ls because you're holding them all.
DeleteShhhh 🤫 SHHHH
Delete