The transfer portal opens up on Tuesday, April 16, and lots of schools are going to be shopping. With spring games out of the way for many programs - and Michigan's coming up this Saturday - we're enough of the way through spring ball to be aware of some roster deficiencies going into the fall.
Here are the top three positions Michigan should be looking for in the transfer portal prior to August camp:
1. QUARTERBACK
I know there are some big Alex Orji fans out there, but . . . I'm not one of them. At least not yet. Orji was a project coming out of high school, and in his second season in a Michigan uniform, he did not attempt a single pass. Yes, he can run at 6'3" and 236 pounds (15 carries, 86 yards, 1 touchdown in 2023), but I'm on the record as a Passing QB Enthusiast. While I'm not a proponent of statuesque quarterbacks, championship teams have good passers and decision-makers, not run-first quarterbacks. I don't think Michigan has the roster to win an FBS championship in 2024, anyway, but I don't think they're going to hit their ceiling without finding a quarterback who can pass the ball efficiently. Some of the big names have already found a new home, but perhaps the Wolverines can find the 2024 version of Jake Rudock, a solid passing quarterback who led Michigan to ten wins back in 2015. Others in the running are seventh-year senior Jack Tuttle and redshirt sophomore Jayden Denegal, but Tuttle had shoulder surgery and Denegal needs some polish since he's not quite as dangerous as a runner as Orji.
Hit the jump for more.
2. CORNERBACK
Michigan's lack of quality cornerback recruiting over the past several years has been somewhat baffling considering the Wolverines have produced all-conference cornerbacks and NFL players (or future NFL players) like Jourdan Lewis, David Long, Mike Sainristil, and Will Johnson. Johnson was a 5-star, but the Wolverines just haven't brought in enough of those high-quality athletes to keep the train rolling. Across the field from Johnson, Michigan needs to put a starting cornerback on the field, and I'm not sure that guy is on the roster. With Sainristil off to the NFL - and Josh Wallace likely to join him in getting drafted - the Wolverines will be choosing between a trio of players with limited crunch-time experience. Nickel corner Ja'Den McBurrows could possibly slide outside, but it's more likely that Jyaire Hill or D.J. Waller becomes a starter. Personally, I'm highest on the dynamic athleticism of Hill, but he needed to add some strength and maturity this off-season. Regardless, Michigan probably needs to start at least three cornerbacks - Johnson, a nickel, and another outside guy - and they only have one surefire guy. With former NFL defensive coordinator Wink Martindale in the mix, I think Michigan should be able to find at least one corner with the length, speed, and mentality to want to show his mettle in an NFL defensive scheme to make a case to get drafted in 2025 or beyond.
3. SAFETY
There was a time when Michigan seemed stacked at the safety position, back when returning starters Rod Moore and Makari Paige were going to skip the NFL draft to play one more season in Ann Arbor, and when Keon Sabb looked like he could be a third starter, perhaps with Moore sliding down to nickel. Then Sabb decided to go for a sure starting role at Alabama . . . and Moore tore his ACL in practice. Michigan went from having three very good safeties - plus a promising Zeke Berry - to just Paige. Berry is still around, second-year player Brandyn Hillman has received some positive buzz, and the staff managed to pry Quinten Johnson back from his intention to test the NFL waters. Right now it seems like Paige and Johnson will be the starters, while Berry and Hillman duke it out for backup duties. But ideally, the Wolverines can find a third starting-caliber safety.
BONUS: KICKER
I do not claim to be good at scouting kickers, so I just have to rely on practice buzz. And the word coming out of spring practice is that Michigan does not have a solid kicking situation. After Jake Moody had a great run for the Wolverines, Michigan landed transfer James Turner from Louisville for the 2023 season, and he was good enough to help win a national championship. But now that Turner is gone, the only scholarship kicker set to be on the roster is second-year player Adam Samaha. The nice thing about kicker/punter transfers is they can generally step in at a moment's notice without needing spring ball to get acclimated, so if Michigan does land a quality placekicker in the portal, hopefully he can step right and be ready to go on August 31.
I was surprised that you didn’t include WR in this shopping list. Ob
ReplyDeleteWell, I think WR is a big need, too. But honestly, without a QB . . . I don't know that WR really matters very much. I probably would have put WR on there if there was a decent passing QB on the roster.
DeleteAs the roster is constructed right now, it's going to have to be a run-the-ball-and-play-defense type of team.
1) QB. Even the MGo guys who halfway joke about switching to a run-Orji offense, have QB as the first portal need
ReplyDelete2) WR
3) CB
4) Safety
My guess is we get guys at 2-3 positions, and at least one won't be on our lists (well, you did mention Kicker)
Great post!
ReplyDelete1 -- I agree with QB being #1 - most important position on the field and one in which we face the worst options we've had since 2021. JJ McCarthy isn't walking through that door! Our schedule is too difficult, our OL too turned-over, coaching staff too green to let a guy spend half the season being treated with kid gloves like Cade was in 2021. Moreover, while Orji is a promising option it does not seem like Moore and Campbell are really ready embrace the philosophy change needed to maximize a QB whose best attribute maybe his rushing. That's why I think Tuttle is still the most likely guy (on the roster) to take the bulk of snaps on the season at this time.
I count myself as a fan or at least someone who thinks Orji could be good enough to take us to the playoff. Unlike Thunder, I think Orji may already be a "quarterback who can pass the ball efficiently" as he enters his junior year. But I also think Michigan can find someone who is substantially better at it.
Bottomline is the portal is open and the opportunity is there. Michigan can probably do better than Tuttle (though he'll have a massive experience advantage, the talent level is far from elite) or Orji (whose running is excellent but passing ability is speculative), even accounting for some transition costs of bringing in a new guy.
If JJ McCarthy was still the QB we'd be talking about this team as a title contender (top 5). Instead we're talking about them as a playoff contender (top 20). You can bridge that gap between those 2 outcomes with NIL and the massive massive opportunity that is being a starting QB on the defending champion Michigan Wolverines.
Delete2 and 3 - It's really a toss up to me if you feel better about CB or Safety or Nickel - either way you can just say we need DB help.
CB -- We're better off than last year when Josh Wallace needed to fill a big gaping hole that remained (behind Wallace) all year long. Thank you injury Gods. While Waller and Hill are both promising, we need 3 CBs outside not 2 (despite mostly getting by with 2 last year and Sainristil sliding around). With the better of Waller/Hill rotating in as the 3rd corner or perhaps even moonlighting at nickel occasionally we are in great shape. If we're counting on them both to be rotating freely, we are taking a big risk and an injury becomes devestating.
Safety - we're in decent shape with Paige and QJo returning as presumed starters but there's a big drop off both in proven performance (Moore, Sainristil) and talent (Sabb - who might have been better than Paige had he stuck around) after that.
Acknowledged that safety is probably OK if Corner is 100% solid because then your weak link in the secondary is a high floor battle between McBurrows and Berry at nickel. Let the better man win at nickel while the other guy serves as a backup across the 3 safety spots.
Would we be better off with Upton or Moore or Sabb at nickel/safety? - absolutely yes but I don't see this as problematic, even against Oregon, Texas, OSU. Hillman and Berry (assuming they are backups) give you enough guys (5) to form a serviceable rotation for the 3 safety spots.... But depth is absolutely a question unless a freshman is ready.
Delete4) TE - Barner, Beethum, and Hibner are gone so that that's 3 of your top 5 tight end options from last year. Last year was already a much tighter rotation than 2022 at TE, I believe not by coaching staff choice. So here we are and I guess it's sink or swim time for the younger guys behind Loveland and Bredeson, but 4 guys seems to be the absolute minimum.
Even if Klein is ready to be TE#3, this is a BIG question. If Loveland goes down the team is in trouble. There's a big opportunity (and need) for another Barner type -- or hell -- another blocking TE who could earn a ton of snaps.
I think one potential saving grace for the roster is the use of 6 OL, which I could see further amped up. Michigan is still loaded with dudes on the OL and there is talent and size to spare for bonus in-line TE. It sure would be nice if that guy could at least present as a pass catching threat though, a couple times a season.
I think one underrated consideration about why the run game seemed to dip a bit in 2023 was that Schoonmacher and Honiford (and All) were gone and while Bredeson and Barner stepped up as solid blockers, Loveland also played a lot more and wasn't quite on the same level as the departing vets. There's gotta some mid-conference vet TE who has NFL dreams and is willing to consider a call-up to big time...right?
5)WR - seems like a no brainer for Michigan to add a vet to the mix, but will anyone come not knowing who the QB is or how much the coaching staff will throw?
Spots I'm not really worried about:
DeleteK - Thunder could be right to worry but my interpretation of the spring buzz is if you're not hearing much about a problem it's probably fine.
Backup ILB - a lot of buzz about Hill Green but ehhhh, there's just SO many scholarship guys at ILB that if we really need to dip into the portal to get a 3rd rotation guy as injury insurance on Rolder that seems like a real indictment of the other dozen guys on scholarship no? Hard for me to believe that somebody like Hood can't be a serviceable backup for times when Rolder is not around. I just don't see much value in adding NHG at this point but since it's a 1-year rental, whatever I guess.
DL - I was thinking it would be good to add depth at Edge or DT like Cam Goode or Taylor Upshaw type of dudes but it seems like authentic praise coming in for some of the youngsters and that's without Rayshaun Benny and the freshman having arrived yet. I think we're good as long as somebody in the Portal doesn't steal Benny or Guy away.
Well if the coaches are worried about DT then I'm worried about DT.
DeleteStill seems like when Benny and Pierce are back healthy we should be OK but 6 guys on the DL you trust (MG, KG, Stewart, Moore, Benny, Guy) is a bare minimum so you definitely need a few of the young guys stepping up. If they don't trust Etta and the rest to be ready to play then by all means go out and get another DT, even if it's a guy thriving in the MAC.
snaps matter a great deal because it signals coaches' trust
ReplyDeletebut QBs not being trusted to pass the ball means nothing, so long as they were trusted to run a few times
Not very consistent, but I think I get it
At this point there's not much more to go on with Orji than his high school film. So if you thought he was a good passer in high school back in 2021, then I can see why you might still think so, I guess. But if you didn't think so, then there's nothing that really could have swayed you positively between then and now.
DeleteBut again, it's very rare for good QBs to have gone through their first two years of college throwing the ball so little before earning a starting gig. The lack of attempts is a giant red flag.
S6 E22 "Desperation" -- On this episode of the The Real Housewives of Sacramento County, one of the wives fixates on a man she doesn't know and ends up embarrassing herself.
DeleteRecommend you check that episode out JEL!
Otherwise maybe you can clarify if the QBs you are talking about are future transfer Dylan McCaffrey or future NFL QB Joe Milton here -- Harbaugh QBs trusted to run a rush-heavy package situationally but not given the keys so to speak? Even JJ was running more than passing in meaningful contexts early in his career (Wisc, Neb, OSU).
If you mean Orji, he played 17 snaps last year which is fewer than Tuttle played (55). Which points to the coaches view on who the "real" backup QB might have been. Though, to be fair, Orji's snaps came mostly at the end of the year and Tuttle's came mostly at the beginning of the year so perhaps this evolved. Anyway, note that my speculation is Tuttle over Orji to remain the coaches preference in 2024. So, once again, I'm interpreting the snap counts as meaningful indicators of coaching preference. [swing and miss by JEL]
As far as usage and "trust" of Orji -- being really good at one thing and used accordingly in a small role isn't a bad thing. It doesn't mean you're deficient at the thing the starter does, especially for young backups. It takes some weird galaxy brain logic to look at Alex Orji being trusted to run (run) plays against OSU, Iowa, Alabama, and Washington as a sophomore and see that as an indictment of any kind. Espcially since there was at least 1 RPO in there against Alabama. The assertion kinda reminds me of someone being dead wrong in saying Donovan Edwards heavy use as a pass catcher against Maryland in 2021 was an indictment of his abilities as a rusher...and then the coaches put that freshman in The Game (even though he was 3rd string) to run I-form up the gut. That was around 1500 rushing yards ago and 3 wins vs OSU ago, but perhaps an opportunity to learn a lesson about dumb takes.
LOL. Key word there being opportunity. Most of those are squandered.
@Thunder
DeleteIt's really not that rare -- Jake Rudock attempted no passes his first 2 years and then became a starter. Many others have attempted a low number of passes early in their careers. Joe Burrow attempted 39 passes in his first 3 seasons at OSU -- I bet Orji tops that.
Michigan had McCarthy (healthy enough to play all year) and Tuttle ahead of Orji, I think. They used Orji in a specialist package. So I think it mostly makes sense that Orji didn't throw much in that context - let him focus on being a change-of-pace QB when you want to throw a curveball at opposing OCs.
Compare that context with say Brandon Peters who was used as a sophomore only when the starter had his back broken and his replacement stunk up the joint so badly that Michigan was tied with Rutgers in 2017.
I also think we have more than High School film at this point -- the fact that Michigan is going into the season with Orji as a potential starter (though Tuttle's absence in the spring muddles thing) is circumstantial evidence but should be telling, and he did throw passes in last year's spring game as well. It's not quite a blank slate and I don't see much value in going back to highlights from 3 years ago to draw meaningful conclusions when dude has presumably been developing under elite coaches.
I see it as a blank slate. I agree with Thunder that we don't have a lot to go on for Orji's passing. But I also think it's pretty understandable that he would be used as runner primarily - both because it's Harbaugh's MO to have a rush QB package and because it fits Orji's strength.
DeleteJust gotta let the competition play out at this point, IMO. We don't know much since the last 3 years have been so heavily dominated by McCarthy/McNamara. Tuttle is the only guy with any real track record left and with him being hurt we don't have a potential reference point.
I just don't see a reason to knock Orji for running the ball well - it doesn't tell us anything about his passing. Nor is being JJ McCarthy's backup an indictment. The worst thing you can say about Orji is that he didn't clearly beat out Warren or Tuttle. Given he was a sophomore (while Tuttle was a 5th year grad) and the depth chart was never totally clear, even that can be forgiven. But of course if it's important to have takes based on high school highlight videos validated...
And again with the Portal -- the opportunity is there. The program is either going to embrace it and get aggressive about finding a potential upgrade OR they will sit on what they have. If it's the second option, I would interpret that as some confidence in Tuttle and Orji as solid options but that's definitely a debatable interpretation.
How many snaps has Orji played? What's his ratio on pass attempts to snaps played? Is there another QB who has ever played xx snaps yet been kept from passing and not been deficient?
DeleteHe's got 21 carries to 1 pass ... how many QBs have been so lopsided in usage and not had a passing deficiency?
Donovan Edwards caught 10 passes to 3 carries in his first game as the #2 RB. How many RBs have been so lopsided in usage and not had rushing deficiency?
Delete1,500 rushing yards later...Maybe just 1. But that's all it takes.
Tim Tebow ran 89 times to 33 pass attempts his freshman year. His senior year he completed 68% of his passes, 9.2 YPA, 21 TD to 5 INTs and 1 Heisman Trophy.
DeleteCam Newton ran 21 times to 12 pass attempts his first 2 years, and then won a Heisman.
We've seen A LOT of QBs who thrive at running get used as primarily runners early in their careers. It is not a problem.
Orji has 24 career snaps in 2 years -- maybe we can not over-react to how he was used in those?
Think about his atypical usage another way. Of his 20 some snaps how many times has he handed the ball off? once? twice? Does that scream red flag to you? Is it indicative of a sea change in Moore's philosophy and suddenly the QB will stop handing the ball to the RB? Of course not.
DeleteIt's just a goofy stat that tells you zip about the future. Michigan isn't going to have him run 10 times to every 1 he passes anymore than they are going to have him run 10 times to every 1 he hands off. His usage in the spring game is probably more representative than his usage in a special rush package. 6 passes, 5 rushes. Reminiscent of Tebow/Newton and many others.
This pass attempts vs rush attempts and rush attempts vs handoffs are just goofy stats. Easily explained by the context of his usage -- which is fairly unique. in a good way!
How many guys got half their first couple dozen snaps sprinkled across 4 consecutive do-or-die championship games without ANY injuries playing a factor?
As anyone reading this already knows Orji was used in a specialist package in the final 4 games of the season -- including one where he had a pass option against Alabama in the playoff! So - clearly, the coaches are NOT afraid to have him pass the ball. Nobody has been used like this before!
If Tuttle hadn't been around or whatever and Orji had attempted 10 more passes that would change... nothing. He'd have a similar ratio as Newton or Tebow or Spring Game Orji and it would mean... nothing.
It's not complicated - he was a backup who saw the field because he could run so well. His passing is TBD. A blank slate. That's a red flag only if you want there to be red flag.
This whole thing is a dumb argument -- if he can't effectively pass the ball he wouldn't be in the conversation for the starting spot. Period.
I support going to the portal to improve (at any and all positions) but if they go into the season with Orji/Tuttle competing at QB I think it's still a playoff team and you don't have a playoff team if your QB can't pass the ball effectively. The rumors that the coaching staff is OK to not hit the portal may be 100% bull, but I think they should make us fans feel at least a little bit confident, enough to not assume that Orji's passing can be evaluated based on his highlight reel from 3 years ago.
Maybe Orji is more Blake Bell than Cam Newton -- but he's probably not either one.
Donovan Edwards is not a QB ... misleading Lank is at it again
DeleteTebow was entrusted with 33 pass attempts his TrFR year, and then started his SO year ... That's not the same as ONE attempt against ... UConn in a 6opt blowout
Newton's 12 attempts is ... lemme check my math ... yeah, it's more than 1o times more trust demonstrated by his coaches
LyinLank will argue anything. DESPERATE
'we've seen lots of QBs used as primary runners'
Delete'orjis use was atypical' and 'unique'
Orji is a playmaker at QB ... but #1 portal need is QB
Not even Lank agrees with Lank
Who said Edwards was a QB? Who is being mislead by this thing that no one said? The guy spinning himself in circles into the ground is who. This is why nobody takes you seriously JEL.
DeleteTebow wasn't playing behind McCarthy. Neither was Rudock -- who attempted fewer passes than Orji. If you can't tell that a guy who makes plays and a guy who gets the job done consistently are different things -- that's on you. Maybe ask Deveon Smith and Ty Isaac. Or anyone else performing analysis by highlight vs a college or pro football coach.
You're making a big deal out of unusual usage in a tiny sample to draw spurious conclusions. All because you want so bad to be right. You've done it before. You'll do it again.
If Orji or Milton or Edwards was just sitting on the bench "developing" you'd have nothing to grasp at but because they played a little bit in a small role you assert that they are limited as players.
I'll just give you one more example -- Nik Stauskas was used as a freshman by Beilein to sit on the perimeter and hit 3s. He was deemed "just a shooter" by some, even though his high school tape and recruiting profile indicated he was more than that -- but the context of playing besides guys like Trey Burke and Tim Hardaway meant the youngster had a limited specialist role. One that he could thrive in without being overwhelmed. Not even unique -- Beilein did this routinely. Then when those guys ahead of him jumped to the NBA it was...not a problem. Just like it wasn't a problem when Edwards had to step up when Corum went down in 2022.
Some folks never learn no matter how many times they get a lesson.
me: can we recall a QB with similar lopsided use, and reluctance to let him pass?
DeleteLank:
- Edwards
- two of the greatest college QBs of the century, who were trusted to pass the ball
- oh here's one ... nik stauskus
yeah, spinning into circles. Fxcking joke
Answered repeatedly - Rudock was "reluctance to pass" over anyone including Orji. Unlike Orji there was also "reluctance to run".
DeleteYou're blowing up on a tiny sample size and drawing dumb conclusions. AGAIN!
Orji was trusted to pass the ball against Alabama in the Rose Bowl.
Rudock didn't play, so there is no "you're restricted from doing what QBs do" ... so that's wrong
DeleteIt's the only data we have ... so that's wrong
Orji took a sack rather than throwing it away. He either doesn't know, was was trusted so little that he was coaches to lose the yards ... so that's wrong
another L
*but the Nik Stauskus answer is my new favorite ... move over #caseclosed
@ Lank 2:24 p.m.
Delete"Just like it wasn't a problem when Edwards had to step up when Corum went down in 2022."
Except it might have been a problem. Because Michigan lost by 6 points to a TCU team when they had to attempt handing the ball off to a converted LB on the goal line instead of a surefire goal line/short yardage back in Blake Corum.
So, I mean, other than the team going undefeated with Corum and then just 2-1 with Edwards as the starting RB, it wasn't a problem.
maybe if stauskus was our RB ;o)
Delete@ Thunder. No - scoring 45 points and rushing for 186 yards was not a problem against TCU. Giving up 51 points was.
DeleteRemember when the offense did better in the second half without Corum than in first with him against Illinois? You dismissed that, but somehow it's Edwards fault Michigan gave up 51 points.
You want to talk about team success and RBs in 2022. Here you go:
Michigan's best win with Corum was PSU (where Edwards was lead rusher).
When Edwards was out Michigan had it's 2 most disappointing games of the year - a tight game against Mediocre Maryland and a near loss to Illinois.
When Corum was out Michigan beat OSU and won a big ten championship and scored 45 in the playoff against TCU.
If anything the impact of Edwards was felt more in the results. Oh yeah -- that was with a broken hand taking away perhaps his strongest asset as a RB.
Playing with one hand tied behind his back and it's still SMASH!
@JEL
DeleteYes Rudock didn't play. That's exactly the point JE. You hold it against Orji, like you held it against Milton, that he played as a run QB.
"The coaches don't trust him to pass" -- just like they didn't trust Rudock to pass.
You not understanding the concept of a guy having a specialist role before growing into a bigger role .... well, you're just telling on yourself again. It's funny that you don't know it.
Specialist that is prohibited from the thing the position calls for first
DeleteBut at least you concede: no QB in recent memory had such lopsided use. Not even close. Not the worst thing in the world, but not worth lying about either
I'm not aware of anyone else who has 22 carries to 1 pass to start their career just as I'm not aware of anyone else who was JJ McCarthy's backup with a rush-package role that saw him play against OSU and Alabama and Washington.
DeleteEqually true statements - no lies told.
Are you aware of any QBs who were subbed in by coach's preference in a national title game over a 1st round NFL pick? who didn't later become successful starters in CFB?
A more relevant question.
Wait, so now you're for orji starting? Soooo ... why would you agree QB is number one on the list? Make up your mind: is orji in the category of successful QBs who subbed in during NC games, or do we need a QB out of the portal? I think we all agree that - while Orji did play a role - it was very limited in size & scope. He wasn't trusted to pass, like any other QB in that "irrelevant question"
DeleteDo you even know what you're arguing? Or, are you truly this desperate?
More false choices. Not everybody thinks like you JEL. Thank God.
DeleteRead the words above.
Orji was trusted to pass in the playoff game against Alabama. But keep lying.
Kalel Mullings was trusted to pass (once) in the 2022 Ohio State game, too. And Donovan Edwards in the Big Ten Championship game in 2021. And Edwards threw a pass (okay, a lateral) against Alabama in the playoff game.
DeleteI don't want either Mullings or Edwards playing QB for Michigan.
Me either. Those guys play RB.
DeleteAlex Orji career: 21 rushing attempts, 1 pass attempt
DeleteKalel Mullings career: 50 rushing attempts, 1 pass attempt
You're missing the point. Alex Orji was "trusted" to pass the ball against Alabama, even though he didn't. Kalel Mullings and Donovan Edwards were trusted to throw the ball in big games, too.
This doesn't prove anything about Orji's ability to pass the ball, nor does it mean the coaches trusted him to throw the ball. It was intended to be a tendency breaker, and Alabama sniffed it out (or at least the corner played it well).
Yes I agree that Mulling and Edwards and Orji and McCarthy were all trusted to throw the ball in meaningful games.
DeleteThat proves SOMETHING about the coaches confidence in them to throw the ball.
Does it mean Orji is ready to be the starting QB? No.
Does it mean Orji isn't ready to be the starting QB? No.
If you have the option to throw but choose not to throw that's probably a sign of good decision-making. If you're Kaleel Mullings and you admit you threw the pass without seeing the receiver....not so much.
Rather than insist on going down this statistical journey maybe just acknowledge that Orji played QB in high school, QB as a freshman (including the spring game) and was QB1 at the spring game yesterday. So if nothing else, that distinguished him from RBs, even if the stats in your eyes do not.
False choices, lmao ... LyingLank, at it again
DeleteIt's not a false choice if your ideals are in direct conflict
I am not saying Orji cannot or will not start liar ... I said it caps out potential, and probably keeps us out of the playoffs
*the coaches trusted Orji with that playoff pass so little, that they had him take the Loss of Yards rather than Throw It Away, like we teach QBs in Middle School ... or maybe that was a choice, and Orji's decision making process back there is as unrefined as his footwork? We don't know, but it leans closer to not good enough than playoff caliber
Sad man resorting to insults again. Sorry you're so frustrated.
Delete"the coaches trusted Orji with that playoff pass so little, that they had him take the Loss of Yards rather than Throw It Away" <-- Yes, JEL this is an accurate assessment of what happened. The coaches had him take a loss. That was the playcall by Harbaugh/Moore and company according to this ball-knower.
In more ball-knower analysis we have the guy playing QB in the playoffs (and BT champ game and vs OSU) not being a playoff caliber QB.
Keep these insights coming. We're all learning so much.
Haha, you got nothing. Pathetic
DeleteGood to see you here just to talk to Lank again. Obsessed!
DeleteI'm not a big Orji fan. But I do think he can be schemed for in a way that will bring you wins, particularly in 2024.
ReplyDeleteIf you go with Orji, you have a guy that is completely different than anybody else playing QB in our known universe. This gives you an offense that forces the people who are so inclined by virtue of their desperation, to prepare for you every week. The people who would love to beat you, but for whom it isn't an absolute necessity are going to have to scramble and make uncomfortable changes in one week's time. You are giving everybody a unique set of problems. That is a good thing.
The other guys in the QB room give you meh or way young/small options that limit you even more so than does Orji.
I look at the room and it's an easy decision for me. I'm gonna become Navy only bigger and faster. I'm gonna pound it at you in the million different ways that we already know how to pound it until you commit in ways that allow for open receivers that even Orji can hit. We have two very big tight ends, we have a deadly flat receiver in Semaj, we have a guy that can take the top off in Fred Morgan and we have a lightning in a bottle guy in Donovan Edwards that can line it up and kill you from anywhere.
We will be much more difficult to defend with Orji in there than we will be otherwise, unless there's a stud QB to be had in the portal.
I also think that it is possible to win another conference and compete for the natty with Orji at QB. The team that will be able to beat us will be the team that can mach up in the front 7 while still maintaining sound coverage principles. That team is out there for sure, but then again ... the football is oddly shaped and bounces funny.
Roanman
Seventh-year senior Jack Tuttle ... Whodathunkit.
DeleteRoanman
This Orji strategy gets us seven, maybe right wins. Texas, Oregon ohio & perhaps Washington have the talent & coaching to stop a one dimensional offense, then there's injuries & upsets to consider when a gameplan is so predictable
DeleteI'd also question how Edwards can run against a stacked box, since we haven't seen much tackle breaking or of him in three seasons
My thing is that Michigan has shown it can run the ball without a heavy-duty running option at QB - Higdon, Haskins, Corum, etc. have all run the ball well with a passing QB handing off the ball. So if you incorporate a running QB, you're being redundant instead of balanced.
DeleteThere are games you can win by running (PSU 2023) and games where you need to pass (OSU, Alabama 2023). The ceiling is lower if you can't pass the ball effectively when it counts.
Agree with your takes Roanman, I'm just skeptical Michigan is going to adapt it's philosophy to really let Orji do his best. Nor am I convinced that they should. Yet!
DeleteIf fall camp results in Orji being the starter I would like to see it. We've got a regular season's worth of months to go before the regular season, and the portal window is letting in quite a breeze.
"So if you incorporate a running QB, you're being redundant instead of balanced."
DeleteThis take to me, in 2024, is just wild when you look at the history of QBs who present a major running threat and their success on teams. Tom Osborne just rolled over in his grave. Urban Meyer and Jim Harbaugh just spit their coffee out. Steve Young just had a belly laugh and then high fived Randall Cunningham.
Let's be clear about the false choice laid out here though: "pass the ball effectively" and "incorporate a running QB" are not mutually exclusive.
You're misinterpreting what I said. As we've discussed before - especially when talking about Denard Robinson - the run-first QBs who can't throw effectively don't win. Even the Tim Tebow reference is 15 years old or so. This isn't 2006 where the shotgun spread power run game is impossible to defend.
DeleteThe current era requires QBs who can throw the ball effectively: Joe Burrow, JJ McCarthy, Bryce Young, Trevor Lawrence, etc. Even Stetson Bennett was an efficient passer, even though he wasn't a high draft pick like the rest of those guys.
Misinterpretation allows for misleading ... it's intentional. Lies!
DeleteQBs who can't throw effectively don't win.
DeleteDon't have to specify run-first or pass-first.
You're drawing a line that isn't there, to equate two things that don't equate, even in your rebuttal to my point.
Run ability from a QB adds an element...that isn't redundant. This isn't 2006 where a pocket passer is off the hook for running pays -- JJ McCarthy, Burrow, Young, Lawrence, Bennett....all of them run read option plays and, to varying degrees, provide a significant advantage with their rushing ability over say Tom Brady or Cade McNamara
https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/34609919
Run ability also......helps QBs throw effectively. If LBs are freaking out about your RB AND they are freaking out about the QB running it in the opposite direction, they are much more likely to have forgotten to cover a receiver. Somehow this is always discounted in the case of someone like Denard ("just making easy throws thanks to his legs") but there are different ways to get the job done (i.e., be effective).
Putting defenders in conflict - is valuable. A running QB does that. If he can't pass - well that's a different topic entirely isn't it?
No lies told. Running ability is a big asset.
I'll add on to that basic consensus across the football world that seems to common consensus everywhere else., and expand on it -->
QBs who CANNOT run well are a liability.
It's part of why McCarthy was a better QB than McNamara. QBs like Brady (who was in college in 1997 when Nebraska won a co-national title with a very heavy emphasis on running QBs) are a rarity in 2024.
In the day and age when Lamar Jackson has 2 NFL MVP trophies thanks largely to his ability to rush as well as pass to just dismiss QB rushing ability as "redundant" is wild. But it's definitely a long-standing pattern here going back to the Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year being "not a good QB" .
Why would a LB "freak out" over a QB who can't throw well? That's not conflict, it's one denensional ... talented & well coached teams feast on that
DeleteIt's the same thing JEL. A LB can't be in 2 places at once.
DeleteHe can't be on the right side of the field chasing a RB to the sideline at the same time that he's trying to cover a slot WR running fly route down the left side. He also can't be on the left side of the field chasing a running QB at the same time the RB is running right. Conflict - indecision - timing - bye, you're dead.
If you don't understand the basic fundamentals of a run play (zone read, option, RPO, etc.) creating conflict on a defender, I don't know what to tell you... it's not new. The zone read (formerly a stupid gimmick play that would never work with pro level athletes) is... a standard play at the NFL level. Even guys like Jared Goff run zone reads (albeit rarely and not particularly well) in 2024. It's not 2006.
https://www.nfl.com/videos/jared-goff-turns-designed-qb-run-into-quick-17-yard-gain
You can say the pass conflict is more important, but you can't say the run conflict is irrelevant (or redundant).
Well I guess you can, but...football history says otherwise, as does football present.
-----------------------------
Again - a QB who can run well does not equal a QB who can't throw well.
That's the fundamental logical flaw that these takes are based on. Your assertion that Orji can't pass well because he has rushed well. An assertion you would not make about Jake Rudock who attempted ZERO passes his first 2 years which is fewer than Orji and Milton attempted. Yet this is a red flag, all because they were used in the Harball rush package.
Weirdly this was not a judgement passed on McCaffrey, the ultimate example of a run-effective/pass-deficient QB in the Harbaugh era (so far, maybe Orji will prove to be that bad as a passer, but we don't know yet).
https://touch-the-banner.com/2019-season-countdown-26-dylan-mccaffrey/
https://touch-the-banner.com/2020-season-countdown-10-dylan-mccaffrey/
https://touch-the-banner.com/snapshots-dylan-mccaffrey-vs-notre-dame-maryland/
Just read those things and pretend the name is Orji and you get a sense for a different perspective you could have, if you give a run heavy QB the benefit of the doubt despite unproven/questionable passing skills. Just pretend Orji has been around for 3 years and has attempted 35 passes with mediocre results in that time -- a different level of leeway granted if you like what you saw in high school.
[And to be clear, I VERY MUCH liked what I saw with McCaffrey and was fully onboard with the hype as well. I like QBs who can run! He just never showed himself to be an effective passer through 3 seasons. Even with the crapstorm of 2017 he wasn't trusted to see the field, and his sophomore year he was mostly a runner and it was...fine. Everyone was hopeful and excited even though he didn't demonstrate the ability to pass effectively through 15 career pass attempts ]
The problem that I see with this team ... and as I think it through, the only problem that I see with this team is that we have nobody in the QB room that has a demonstrated ability to beat you with his arm.
ReplyDeleteHonesty requires the thought that Orji has no demonstrated ability to beat you with his legs either, but reports on Orji carrying the football are significantly more … better … than they are on any of our guys throwing it.
If I'm coaching this team, the only thing that scares me is the possibility that I might squander the best defense anybody is likely to see around here for a good long time by fielding an offense that can’t win.
So, how do I give my D another proper chance at a national championship?
Well, I’m gonna do the traditional thing and keep your offense off the field. I’m gonna make every touch of the football feel precious. I’m gonna make your QB go out there scared to death about 3 and outs cuz he might not get another touch for 8 minutes. I’m gonna make your OC think and do stuff that feels desperate to everybody in the stadium including your team. I’m gonna make your defense feel sick walking back out there knowing that they are gonna have to hit Edwards if they can, and take on Mullings, Hall and Orji one on one, over and over and over again. I believe that we can break teams with this approach. Maybe even more so than we did last year.
Thunder is right in that we needed the pass against both OSU and Alabama, and those are exactly the kind of teams that I was talking about above. Actually, those were specifically the two teams I was thinking about above. Georgia too. But as for the rest of them. I say pound em. I don't think that they can hold up. Those big strong teams come at the end, we will have to have done some extreme scheming all year long before we get to those games, but elements of this coaching staff have done that before.
Already we are the single unique offense in all of college football right now, why go ordinary to pursue some homage to “modern football” with just some guy at QB that probably can’t get it done anyway.
Dear Lord, Seth has spent ten thousand words over the past three seasons explaining the incredibly creative and obtuse stuff we pull … get it? … Pull? And likely it’s more like one hundred and ten thousand words. At this instant, nobody is like us … Sparty is coming down that road by the way. And there is no doubt that these schemes we employ will be figured out and defended, and maybe that’ll happen this year, but I say make em prove it. I think we’re still way ahead of all of them.
I say go with the guy who is special at something, scheme it up for him and try to win the damn thing again.
I am disinterested in conversations about eggs in one basket and injuries. Lose your QB, you’re likely done anyway, particularly if you have our QB room. That might not be true if you start Tuttle and go to Davis or whomever should Tuttle go down, but none of those guys are ever gonna get you home anyway. They are either not good enough, or not ready … in some cases, possibly both.
I try hard not to say mean stuff about the kids, but even they have to acknowledge that they haven’t done anything to cause real confidence in their play.
I don't know enough about Oregon to have an opinion. I saw Texas twice, I guess, last year. They're missing two possible first round receivers and I think their QB is gonna be young Manning. I'm gonna want to hit him in the mouth. Pretty sure I have the DC to get that done. If he beats us, God bless him.
As for the rest of them, I say bring it, try to stop us.
I really don’t think they can.
Roanman
Roanman, Edwards has never shown that he can grind out the tough yards, even with a QB like JJ and an NFL passing game threatening the Secondary. Tthe other RBs have never had double digit carries, even in a blowout ... what makes you think we're going to march down the field and chew eight minutes off the clock without the serious threat of a pass?
DeleteTexas may be from the B12, but their DL is stout and - with cheating LBs - should have no problem stopping a one dimension offense
"what makes you think we're going to march down the field and chew eight minutes off the clock without the serious threat of a pass"
DeleteWhat makes you think Michigan will not threaten a pass?
What makes you think Sherrone Moore, the MIchigan OL, and an expected NFL-level RB cannot do what they have done the last 3 years, aided by a SMASH running QB?
Let the LBs cheat up -- and then make them pay - with Orji, Edwards, Loveland, Semaj, etc. Opportunities abound as long as your worldview isn't a Techmo Bowl playbook of run up the gut, run outside, or bomb deep.
"I say go with the guy who is special at something, scheme it up for him and try to win the damn thing again."
Roanman is absolutely right. The key here is the OL and their ability to SMASH. We SMASHED the OSU defense in 2021 and 2022 and 2023. Dunno if 2024 will hold the pattern -- but, as they say in Texas, it might could.
This isn't even some goofball hypothetical. We've literally done it already! Against one of the best defenses in the country.
https://youtu.be/JhoVhYz43hA?feature=shared
If you're QB stinks as a passer, it's not much of a threat
DeleteNew OL, a RB whose never done it, and no pass threat ... that's what makes me doubt it'd work
maybe if stauskus is out QB ;o)
Michigan famously SMASHed OSU (and PSU) without passing.
DeleteOrji was effective against OSU (and Alabama) without passing.
Donovan Edwards is a proven backup AND a proven starter at RB.
Edwards, Loveland, Morris and company are pass threats regardless of who is a starter.
Questions about 2024 are fine but basing them on these assertions is joke.
JJ made elite level throws against ohio ... and, the THREAT of our pass game still existed against Penn St. The scenarios are not alike
DeleteCorrection: Orji has been effective in very limited use, and only as a runner. That's not the same as having a top10 QB under Center, or even a Cade McNamara/Shea Patterson/Wilton Speight under Center
Was JJ on the field with Orji, or was Orji out there as the QB without JJ?
DeleteWas Orji effective at QB?
Was Orji effective at QB, even in game 15, having thrown no passes all year?
There is no scenario where the threat of the pass game does not exist. This fantasy is the basis of your criticism and I think that says what it says.
No
DeleteAs a runner only. That is the point you're blabbing around
Same
My criticism is based on actual usage. He has the lowest amount of career pass attempts on the roster. The fantasy is in ignoring that fact
Was Orji effective at QB?
DeleteYes. You are lying JEL.
Was Orji effective at QB, even in game 15, having thrown no passes all year?
Yes. You are lying JEL.
Face the facts.
as a runner only Lank. Your caveats are a part of your misleading representation of facts
Delete@ Lank 5:50 p.m.
Delete"Was Orji effective at QB, even in game 15, having thrown no passes all year?"
I mean, that depends on your definition of "effective." Orji had 2 carries for 15 yards in that game.
The team averaged 7.97 yards per rush.
The team averaged 7.77 yards per play.
Orji averaged 7.50 yards per attempt.
So was he effective? Well, 7.50 yards per attempt is good over a long period of time. In that particular game, he was less effective than the average play. He actually brought down both the rushing average and the team's per play average.
Yes, it's a small sample size...but you brought up game 15 in particular, and I'm answering about game 15 in particular. If you're going to try to use that game alone to be pro-Orji, then the other side can use that game alone to be anti-Orji.
@JEL
DeleteOrji is only good as runner.
Edwards is only good as a receiver.
<--Your takes
Orji -- was playing QB. Running is part of playing QB. Sorry for the inconvenient facts.
Edwards - was playing RB. Catching is part of playing RB. Sorry for the inconvenient fact.
In your world where a QB running and RB catching are discounted as irrelevant gimmicks, this can be ignored. In the rest of the world where these things are a big deal at every level, including the NFL, it cannot.
For those of us whose understanding of football has advanced since the the early 90s --- your takes expose your ignorance.
https://images.app.goo.gl/4VrMzUv9sacL4VF5A
@ Lank 2:23 p.m.
DeleteYou're somewhat deflecting. Part of your point is that he was successful in game 15. You haven't defined success, and I've shown you a stat that indicates maybe he wasn't as successful as you think.
@ Lank 2:23 p.m.
DeleteSorry, I ran out of time to finish my comment, so I had to circle back.
You say Orji was successful, but everyone was successful. Washington was overmatched. Kalel Mullings ran for 7.0 yards/carry and he didn't have the numbers advantage that a designed QB run has. Corum ran for 6.4 yards per carry. Edwards averaged 17.3 yards/carry.
Orji has probably improved as a passer since a few years ago. I would hope that EVERY player has improved somewhat since 2022. If they haven't, they probably shouldn't have a scholarship or their coaches should be fired.
Improvement from bad to mediocre is improvement. Is that good enough to be a starter for Michigan in 2024? I don't know.
No deflection. I don't think a YPC based on a sample size of 2 is very relevant. Nor do I think your counter-argument addresses my point, which is not about game 15 alone. Nor do I think 7.50 yards per play is anything but effective.
DeleteIf you insist on this being a topic worth exploring statistically, you can say that the Orji offense (7.5 YPP) showed little drop off from the McCarthy offense (7.7 YPP) -- which was a top 5 offense nationally with a 1st round NFL QB. Specifically -- the dropoff was less than 3%
Further, the 7.5 YPP Orji achieved would have been the #3 offense in the country last year. Michigan was 24th in the country on offense, averaged 6.1 YPP on the season.
But let's stay with the head on comparison and assume Orji replacing McCarthy drops your YPP by 2.6%. Then you get 5.9 YPP which is #38 in the country, which is.... better than the offense did with Jake Rudock (5.6 YPP #51 in the country) in 2015.
It's more than effective. It's very good.
---------------------------------------------------
Your analysis, which I don't agree with the premise of, nor the methodology, nor consider to be relevant, would tell you that Orji was very clearly effective.
Have I addressed your comment more directly now?
"Orji has probably improved as a passer since a few years ago. I would hope that EVERY player has improved somewhat since 2022. If they haven't, they probably shouldn't have a scholarship or their coaches should be fired. Improvement from bad to mediocre is improvement."
DeleteI agree with you. I'll just add that an Early Enroll QB should be expected to be bad. Jadyn Davis being no different. I bet even JJ McCarthy would have looked not too hot in the 2021 spring game if that had happened.
" Is [mediocre] good enough to be a starter for Michigan in 2024? I don't know."
I don't know either. What I don't agree with is ruling out Orji's effectiveness as a passer when all we've seen on gameday is effectiveness (albeit in a limited/specialist role).
We don't know if Orji will be mediocre or not based on such a limited sample and a few plays where he looks mostly good in spring and the (acknowledged) progress over the last couple years.
And even if he is mediocre -- we've been a top 10-15 ranked team with mediocre QB play before (in the Harbaugh era alone Rudock, McNamara, and Speight). If we have an elite D and a strong run game, there's no reason a game-managing QB who brings a substantial playmaking ability with his legs can't pair with proven playmakers like Loveland, Edwards, and Morgan to be a top 40 (or better) offense.
So again, questions about Orji are valid, but so are questions about Mullings and El Hadi and Hausmann and most everyone else who isn't a bonafide all conference player already. The question is if they are on the right track and if the arrow is pointed in the right direction and if our coaches are saying and (more importantly) doing things that indicate that these guys are ready to step into a starting role. If we're signaling Orji out as a fatal flaw the question is why the strong vote of disapproval when previously unproven players have been given the benefit of the doubt (e.g., McCaffrey, Peters, Speight, Morris) despite being untested and/or actually passing the ball poorly in games.
Oh and if we're comfortable taking on tiny sample sizes we should look at Orji's demonstrated ability as a passer with a 143.0 passer rating and 100% completion percentage over his career*. That portends well though 5 YPA is pretty weak and reflects a conservative approach that only works if you have a "third leg of the stool" - the QB run game.
DeleteWith projected improvement since 2021 Orji would extrapolate to complete at least 137% of his passes with a passer rating approaching over 200. It's just science.
Who said Edwards was only a Receiver?
DeleteLmao LyinLank has nothing ... accept defeat ... or continue to lie. Do you Lank
The guy saying he had no balance, couldn't run inside, and wasn't a harball back. Who could that be? I dunno.
DeleteIt might be jeLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
@ Lank 4:56 p.m.
DeleteAs is often the case, you write too much for me to respond to every point.
I don't think Rudock was necessarily mediocre. He finished his one season at Michigan #2 in season passing yards and #1 in completion percentage. Statistically, he's in the discussion as one of the best Michigan quarterbacks in program history. He was also like the 12th QB taken in the NFL draft.
You're talking about Speight, McCaffrey, Peters, etc. being given the benefit of the doubt. I don't remember being a big fan of Speight, but I would imagine that at least for some, the fact that McCaffrey (NFL bloodlines, All-American, etc.) and Morris (top-100 recruit, All-American, etc.) got the benefit of the doubt should not be surprising. People saw a lot of them on the big stage. Furthermore, McCaffrey's completion percentage as a young guy wasn't great, but he did throw 3 TDs and 0 INTs while also averaging 9.9 yards/carry as a freshman (which dropped to 5.2 as a sophomore).
You say Orji was successful; I say McCaffrey was successful.
So how is success defined? The stats favor McCaffrey. Right now you're using him as a negative example while propping up Orji.
So right now...it really seems to come down to opinions.
As always with predictions/projections...we'll see.
Mediocre is semantics but Rudock's QBR and Passer Rating and production were unexceptional, even surrounded by very good talent and coaching at Michigan in his 5th year. Your statement "Statistically, he's in the discussion as one of the best Michigan quarterbacks in program history." is not remotely true. Not even close. I'm sure you can find some cherry-picked stat that puts his 2015 season in the top 10 of something or other if we ignore everything else, but his career does not rate.
DeleteNot a stat but a notable anecdote is the complete ineffectiveness of the Rudock offense against OSU. OKorn level of production.
"You say Orji was successful; I say McCaffrey was successful."
Yeah that fine -- and that's kind of the point.
Why is one dismissed and the other is not.
The stats do NOT favor McCaffrey. McCaffrey tried to pass and didn't do very well at it. But you still hung on to hope of improvements, optimistically - up to his senior year. Recruiting rankings is a weak excuse because after 2 or 3 years in the program that information is irrelevant.
Orji is a blank slate. There's more reason for optimism with a blank slate than poor performance. Ditto Peters and Morris - these guys showed you they weren't going to be effective passers yet you still believed in them getting better. Orji hasn't shown you one way or the other and you refuse to even entertain the idea that he could be better than mediocre.
To be clear - I don't think this is a prediction or a projection. It is an analysis of Orji's first 2 years and what it means about his potential to be effective. You are have already decided, it seems, that Orji is at best a mediocre QB.
DeleteLIAR. I never said Edwards had "no balance," I said he needed improvement
DeleteLIAR. I never said Edwards "couldn't run inside," I said he wasn't as good as the starters or even backups
LIAR. I didn't say he wasn't a "Harball back," I said he wasn't breaking tackles like othersthe others
You're a liar. LyinLank isn't an insult, it's who you are
Thunder compared McCaffrey's passing after two years to Orji, and all you've got is that we haven't seen it ... that's the point numbnuts. You know this, because the coaches playing Orji is the basis of your opinion that he can all of a sudden pass. What's that say about him passing less than every QB on the roster for the last two years?
Your logic is inconsistent, because it lacks knowledge of the game
Big L. Again
@Thunder
DeleteI'll refresh your memory on your Speight take at the same point as Orji is at -- headed into his junior season, mostly unproven, and expected to be a first time starter. Neither was a highly rated recruit, not that that matters anymore.
https://touch-the-banner.com/2016-season-countdown-9-wilton-speight/
First, you noted Speight's unimpressive stats ( 9/25 passes for 73 yards, 1 touchdown, and 1 interception; he also ran 2 times for 2 yards.) and that as a freshman he was not one of the QBs selected to participate in the spring game. Orji, in contrast, has played in 3 spring games to Speights 1 at the same point. Orji, in contrast to Speight, has not passed the ball poorly, nor had he the opportunity to sub in for an injured starter to manage a meaningful drive against Minnesota. Orji, in contrast to Speight, was playing a handful of meaningful downs in a playoff champ team by the coaching staff's preference. While there are similarities in timeline and limited snaps -- they are not identical situations - but they are more similar than different.
Below is the write up projecting the year ahead of Speight (prior to 2016). Despite the questions and uncertainty and limited but poor track record as a passer, your assessment of speight was largely optimistic. Not glowing, but not critical either. This ended up being the correct approach! Speight was solid and effective until he got hurt -- But that's not really the point here. The point here is to note how different the tone is for a guy who had not thrown the ball well and was not necessarily expected to be that good, but nonetheless was expected to be the starter.
Here are some quotes:
"Speight played pretty well in the spring game. He checked the ball down and found the open guy, used All-American tight end Jake Butt, and showed more mobility than most would expect out of a 6’6″, 243 lb. quarterback. What I have yet to see him do is hit a deep ball in practice or in a game, so that concerns me."
"Speight performed well against half of a starting defense in front of a smattering of fans in the spring, but can he do it against a full defense of starters in front of 110,000? Ultimately, I trust Jim Harbaugh when it comes to quarterbacks."
"I don’t love Speight’s abilities, but the smart bet is in favor of whomever Harbaugh puts out there."
I think the question is why even if one does not "love Orji's abilities" the "smart bet" now is that Orji is going to be mediocre at best and Michigan can do better. In 2016 it was (essentially) trust the coaches, so What did Sherrone Moore, the OC of a top 5 offense and a national champion squad, do to lead to such distrust?
BTW in case you are interested the stats I could find for the two spring games were as follows:
Alex Orji 13-18 for 103 yards plus a rushing TD
Wilton Speight completed 5-of-6 passes for 46 yards and a touchdown and added 19 yards and a touchdown on two carries
Both guys were fine but neither lit the world on fire. Speight was praised for checking down and questioned for not throwing deep but clearly the assessment was positive. Orji threw the ball more than Speight but is being greeted with deep skepticism and an assertion that Michigan should find "a quarterback who can pass the ball efficiently".
And yeah sure there can be some parsing of opinions here based on the limited glimpses of sophomore year snaps and spring game throws, but we are talking about two players in similar circumstances -- unproven and questionable players who come with some doubts but are looking to elevate in their junior seasons.
The reactions to that are night and day and it goes well beyond predictions and projections. It's a different assessment entirely. Cautiously optimistic in Speights case. Dismissal of the potential for even basic effectiveness in Orji's.
You may be right in the end, I don't know, but their track records don't justify the discrepancy.
@jeL
Delete"Thunder compared McCaffrey's passing after two years to Orji, and all you've got is that we haven't seen it ... that's the point numbnuts. You know this, because the coaches playing Orji is the basis of your opinion that he can all of a sudden pass. "
After 3 year McCaffrey had attempted just 35 passes and...did not look good doing it. He was more effective as a runner than a passer. Orji hasn't yet played his year 3 and has attempted just 1 pass (which he completed).
Hmmm please find the quote where I say Orji "can all of the sudden pass"
Or are you lying?
Numbnuts! LOL. Good one!
Hold this one up REAL high. Higher even than the last one. Don't run away like you told Joe to do. Fight your instinct. Face the facts. LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLs all day every day.
More words ... nothing said. Nothing proven. Just arguing
DeleteMcCaffrey was trusted with 15 pass attempts during his second year on campus, with two TDs ... Orji? ZERO
Maybe it has something to do with our championship run? You don't know, but since you dodged earlier, I'll educate you. Harbaugh entrusted the following pass attempts in 2o23's national championship season:
- newbie Tuttle: 17
- walkon Davis: 5
- peer Denegal: 5
Even The Don got a pass attempt!
Your ommissions are another part of your misleading strategy. You're a liar
Case closed
Yes jeL we've covered the number of pass attempts ad nauseum. There's more to it -- that's the point.
Delete"More words ... nothing said. Nothing proven. Just arguing"
Everytime. Every accusation. Admission.
Raise it up high jeL.
#Edwards #Stauskas
DeleteIYKYK but if you're too dim to make the connection well....
I accept your white flag
DeleteHold it up real high.
DeleteIt's easier to play cute than it is to play tough. It's easier to get cute than it is to get tough.
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen anyone hit with us for three years. The Buckeyes have come out against us and got out hit in a big way the first two times, and then just outhit the third. They haven't stopped crying in 3 years.
Alabama hit pretty good, I thought. But at the end of the game, we pounded them and they broke on both sides of the ball.
Penn State was tough on us until we started running at their stud defensive ends instead of running away from them. They broke early in our long series of runs straight at them.
Edwards doesn't have to "grind it out" although it would be better if he could. He doesn't have to run into a stacked box either. Stacked boxes is exactly why God invented motion.
If we're gonna discuss what people haven't shown up until now, which of our QB's have shown that they can win at this level with their arm?
With regards to not being able to win in the modern era with a Qb that can't throw it, I have two words that are not Denard Robinson. "Pat White" who I saw just mess up a solid Oklahoma team in a New Year's Day bowl game. I don't think those West Virginia teams ever threw more than a third of the time, and maybe not that much. I think they went 3 and 0 on New Year's day also. Rodriguez was as far ahead of the pack in those days running the football as we were last year, hopefully still this year.
Denard Robinson was sabotaged by the mellifluous moron. I'm never gonna let that go.
I'll be there tomorrow, I'll be the extraordinarily good looking, aging gentleman sitting between the goalposts 24 - 32 rows up in the student section.
Roanman
I might go to the other end, I do that sometimes if I want to see something specific.
DeletePat White was over 2o years ago, when defenses were running standard 4-3, and Stunts were exotic ...
DeleteMotion is good, if the WR & threat to pass is legit. Funny that Lank* posted that one orji run, but left out the other. We motion, ohio keeps 9 defenders in the box. The result was a 2yd run, and one of the shortest drives of the day. Orji never saw the field again, bc the gimmick was played - not a longterm game plan against a good defense
*not at all surprising that incomplete information was used to misrepresent a point
#lyinLank
Enjoy the game Roanman.
Delete"Denard Robinson was sabotaged by the mellifluous moron"
Well put and true though perhaps more than just one. LOL
"the gimmick was played"
DeleteSo played that Michigan kept doing it against Iowa, Alabama, and Washington. LOL
The fantasy here is that it's an Orji specific thing -- Harbaugh has been putting out a rush QB package since 2018 at Michigan. Before that he replaced one of the league's most efficient passer with a dual threat QB who ran for over 2,000 yards in the next few seasons.
Anyone asserting the QB rush threat is "redundant" is going to get laughed out of the room by Jim Harbaugh.
"one of the shortest drives of the day"
DeleteI was curious so I looked it up. Here are MIchigan's drives against OSU that day:
5, 8, 7, 75, 24, 46, 75, 44, 56
The 46 is the Orji drive to start the second half -- which led to a FG when, after Orji's run for 2 yards to get to the 37, JJ was reinserted and failed to convert a 3rd down.
Out of 9 drives on the day, the Orji drive was the 4th longest.
I was thinking the L was for the losses but maybe it's just lying. Either way -- Hold it up high, so everyone can see.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MichiganWolverines/comments/1brsue2/last_time_easter_sunday_fell_on_march_31st_nik/#lightbox
Yes, gimmick. Two plays out of an entire game plan. That's a gimmick
DeleteShortest in terms of ToP, which is the context here. Roanman called for in drives, so I pointed out that Orji was in for only two plays, got yanked as soon as the gimmick was spent, and that's true. Sticking to the context of Roanman's post, the drive Orji played in was 3min (not 8), and Orji was only a part of it for 1 ...
Lying is purposefully misinterpreting a point, and then spinning the conversation in another direction
LyinLank, foiled again. Outsmarted!
The rush package wasn't spent - it was effective and it was brought back every game thereafter. Subbing McCarthy in didn't work and Michigan had to kick a FG that drive.
DeleteRoanman's post was not about time of possession. Time of possession is typically maximized by running a lot - his post is about a QB in an offense that runs a lot.
Every accusation is a confession.
The Orji gimmick was spent, period
DeleteRoanman didn't talk about keeping opposing offenses on the sidelines for 8min?
Denial. Outsmarted, again!
So spent that Harbaugh/Moore went right back to it next week.
DeleteFace the facts.
How many times? Was it a small slice of the game plan? That's a gimmick. Learn the game
DeleteDid they go back to it the next game or not?
DeleteWas it "spent" if they went back to it?
Thanks for playing. Hold it up high.
Where deep passes down the field a small slice of the game plan?
DeleteThat's a gimmick <--- JE logic
Ooh, there's a point: count +2o yard pass attempts on the year and compare that to Orji carries
DeleteYou'll find I am right about two things:
1) Orji was a gimmick last year and
2) harball
You lose. Again
The next thing you are right about will be the first. hold it up so everyone can see
DeletePlease do count +2o yard pass attempts on the year and compare that to Orji carries
DeleteI accept your white flag.
Delete#case closed
Imitation is the highest form of flattery
DeleteLank has been beaten so bad, he's resorted to copying mighty JE93
No liar, YOU are avoiding the question I asked YOU ...
DeleteCounting requires watching the tape - you don't know what to look at
Now liar claims he made up "Harball" ... wtf, what a sociopath
White flag time
You run from every challenge. You don't even know it and then you tell Joe to do the same.
DeleteThen you lie to cover it up. but you know it's true. These lies, they only work on you.
Every accusation is a confession -- including "not even you believe you".
Tell it to the homies at the suburban Sacramento rec center. They believe you and they are so impressed!
LIAR. It's all here
Deleteje93April 23, 2024 at 8:51 PM
Ooh, there's a point: count +2o yard pass attempts on the year and compare that to Orji carries
Nonsense on the 4-3 thing, as well as "stunts were exotic". My high school team had a safety blitz.
ReplyDeleteCorrect ANON. Also correct that the 3-3-5 was being run at the same time.
DeleteNo need to respond to the strawman arguments here - no one is suggesting going back to RichRod just as no one is suggesting starting a QB who can't pass the ball effectively. It's a sign of desperation.
Jeff Casteel ran a 3-3-5 for RichRod, which people around here will tell you is no damn good. Except it sure kicked Oklahoma's ass.
ReplyDeleteOU ran a 4-3 in the Fiesta, with nothing approaching modern Defense zone blitzes, disguised coverages etc
DeleteAnyway, 2ooos WV offense is not what you're suggesting we run, is it? If so, what's the likelihood coaches agree, and why not?
Lies
DeleteOmissions
Dumb questions
#jeL hat-trick
Lank, you don't have the football aptitude to know what defenses are being run, and who/what/how the impact
Delete"OU ran a 4-3 in the Fiesta, with nothing approaching modern Defense zone blitzes, disguised coverages etc". You are likely correct on this one, I can't remember exactly. But your comment is exactly to my point. RichRod was ahead of everybody. It took a minute for the scrape exchange thing to be thought up and then worked out. Nobody has demonstrated that they have us thought up and worked out ... yet. Until they do, beat their butts with what we do.
ReplyDeleteRoanman
Some people act like Harbaugh's philosophy is running a 1988 offense with modern versions of Phil Simms at QB, Christian Okoye at RB, and some big tall jump ball WR.
DeleteIn reality - Harbaugh is a very modern coach who happens to love running the ball and multiple TEs. He values dual threat QBs, small quick (not necessarily fast) tough RBs, he wants to always have a pass catching threat at RB, and short WRs who get open (think Largent, Rice, Ward) over big tall jump ball guys (Megatron, Moss, or Mike Evans). All of it predicated on the emphasis of his hero Bo Schembechler -- a physically dominant OL.
Harbaugh recruited accordingly. Moreover, he adapted his philosophy all the time and to suit his personnel and his coaching staff. Drevno - old school I-form. Pep Hamilton - what FBs? Josh Gattis - elite skill position talent! Sherrone - SMASH!
Roanman is right that no one solved Harbaugh's offense since Moore took over - but it only got to where it needs to be after getting the OL to an elite level and finding an NFL caliber QB. Sherrone cannot just sit on that because teams are always catching up to what offenses have done in the past. Hopefully Sherrone recognizes that and keeps Harbaugh's spirit of embracing change and looking forward not back.
@Roanman, that's the point. Why bring up pat white as a mostly run QB, when we know that trick was solved long ago? I don't care to discuss RichRod
Delete@Lank, no one said Harbaugh ran an 8os offense ... just arguing noting with nobody, starting with lies
@JEL
DeleteRoanman gave you another example at your request. You don't like it and now you don't care to discuss it. Keep exposing your weakness though.
The example of casteel's 3-3-5 has nothing to do with whatever success WV had with pat white as a running QB. This is why I pointed out that his example - the Fiesta Bowl against OU - was against the bland 4-3 I had mentioned
DeleteYou do not know football, and cannot keep up
Defense has nothing to do with team success. Another JEL banger!
DeleteWho said that, liar?
DeleteWV's 3-3-5 Defense had nothing to do with Pat White's ability with run the ball ... OUs 199os 4-3 did
Learn the game
The guy who said Casteel's D had nothing to do with WV success with Pat White.
DeleteLook it up JEL! It's the comment before mine.
Look what about liar? What does WV's 3-3-5 Defense have to with Pat White's talent as a runner?
DeleteNothing. You don't know the game
Is that what you said or are you changing your story again? If only there was some way to tell.
DeleteNo quotes! Ever. Hold it up high Mr. iMa CoMpetiTur
jeL1
Delete"The example of casteel's 3-3-5 has nothing to do with whatever success WV had with pat white as a running QB.
jeL2
"What does WV's 3-3-5 Defense have to with Pat White's talent as a runner"
Success WV had with pat white
vs
Pat White's talent as a runner
Every accusation is a confession. All you have is lies.
........And LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLs everyday.
Yes numbnuts. Defense is a part of team success. Casteel & RR did not implement the 3-3-5 because of Pat White
DeleteYou don't know the game, at all
Got time on my hands as I'm resting up for some indulgences after the game tomorrow. So, here's a little something about RR's tenure at WVU.
ReplyDeleteHere are the statistics and play breakdowns for each season RR was coaching for West Virginia. Pat White got there in 2005, so not yet 20 years until his first season.
2001: 3,803 total yards, 474 runs – 355 passes (57 percent run)
2002: 5,440 total yards, 714 runs – 279 passes (72 percent run)
2003: 4,796 total yards, 600 runs – 252 passes (70 percent run)
2004: 5,027 total yards, 589 runs – 259 passes (69 percent run)
2005: 4,667 total yards, 625 runs – 193 passes (76 percent run)
2006: 5,998 total yards, 590 runs – 233 passes (72 percent run)
2007: 5,931 total yards, 628 runs – 265 passes (70 percent run)
2008: 3,490 total yards, 453 runs – 338 passes (57 percent run)
2009: 4,614 total yards, 494 runs – 329 passes (60 percent run)
2010: 6,353 total yards, 556 runs – 243 passes (70 percent run)
Pat White Passing
Year Class G Cmp. Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A. TD Int Rate
*2005 FR 12 65 114 57.0 828 7.3 6.7 8 5 132.4
*2006 SO 12 118 179 65.9 1655 9.2 8.9 13 7 159.7
*2007 JR 13 144 216 66.7 1724 8.0 8.4 14 4 151.4
*2008 SR 12 180 274 65.7 1842 6.7 7.1 21 7 142.3
Career 507 783 64.8 6049 7.7 7.8 56 23 147.4
As a point of comparison, here's Denard's sophomore year. Remember, Denard was a poor throwing QB.
2010 SO 13 182 291 62.5 2570. 8.8. 8.4 18 11 149.6
And before you point out to me that Denard had a losing record, consider this.
Team Points/Game 32.8 (25th of 120)
Opponents Points/Game 35.2 (108th of 120)
Can you imagine Denard running our present offense along with the defense we're gonna run out there this year?
Is football different now? Absolutely, but a large part of that difference is because of RichRod’s innovations to option football not yet 20 years ago … mostly.
Will football be different 20 years from now? Absolutely, but much of that will be because of these Michigan offensive blocking and running schemes of the past 3 years and hopefully the next … some … as well.
Roanman
Denard would have loved the Harbaugh offense and vice versa.
DeleteWhite and Robinson illustrate the point very clearly: rushing ability by the QB enhances the ability to pass effectively. Neither was a great passer, but both were highly effective throwing the ball. Because of everything their run games (in tandem with their RBs) did to a defense their passing game was enhanced.
Everyone creating a false choice between being able to pass effectively or run your QB is being dishonest.
7 or 8 wins with Orji as QB1 ... almost certainly not a playoff team
DeleteThat's not dishonest, it's why the coaches will go into the portal and try for a QB, and why everyone here agrees with this priority
My OPINION (obviously not a fact because there's no way to know):
DeleteThe 2023 team with Denard Robinson (not JJ McCarthy) loses to Alabama, if not Ohio State. It took Michigan's best QB ever to beat Alabama and Ohio State by a single score.
Also...insiders are saying Orji is in a battle with Denegal...and Warren...not to mention potentially Tuttle, who is injured this spring. Even if Orji ends up being the full-time guy, the fact that it's kind of a question mark with about three other so-so quarterbacks should be an indicator.
DeleteExactly, and right about what we expected prior to spring practice ... back when lyinLank thought "made a play" was the same as "established playmaker"
Delete@Thunder
DeleteI agree with your opinion - and Rudock and Henne and hell, probably Tom Brady. JJ was the best performance Michigan football has seen at QB and Alabama was an OT toss-up, so any downgrade could have been enough to tilt the balance theoretically. Kind of beside Roanman's point.
" fact that it's kind of a question mark with about three other so-so quarterbacks should be an indicator." an indicator of what? I'm not sure which of Roanman's points this argues with either.
@JEL
DeleteConflating reliable starter and proven playmaker like they aren't different things again? Hold it up high.
@ Lank 12:40 p.m.
DeleteI'm arguing against the idea of option football, whether it's run by Orji or Denard Robinson or Pat White or anyone else. Michigan tried option football from 2008-2010, and it didn't work. It did work in 2011 to beat Ohio State, but that was the worst OSU team in a long time.
Michigan has achieved these feats the past three years with pro-style quarterbacks handing off to pro-level running backs.
Michigan can do better than Orji at QB. Will they have a better option in 2024? I'm not sure they will. And so you put the best guy out there you can, whether it's an option guy or not. But you probably have to accept a couple losses as your ceiling, because at some point, another team is going to figure out how to shut down the run and you have to pass to win.
Michigan beat PSU in 2023 because the other team shut down the pass, but Michigan was able to run. Both phases of offense have to be available in order to win. Air Raid teams who can't run aren't winning the national championship, and option teams who can't pass aren't winning the national championship.
@thunder
DeleteA guy who can run is not a guy who can't pass.
The entire framework of "an option guy" is something I see differently than you. You can say it's semantics but it's not -- Nebraska's option offense of the 80s and 90s is not the same as Urban Meyer's read offense in the 00s and 10s is not the same the Ravens offense in the 2020s. These are different eras, different offenses, different people.
Michigan continues to run the zone read option as part of the offense. So does (almost?) every NFL team. JJ McCarthy was "an option guy", because he ran the option. So was Dylan McCaffrey and so was Joe Milton and so was Denard Robinson and so was Rick Leach. Tom Brady and Brian Griese and Jake Rudock and Wilton Speight and Cade McNamara were not.
It's important not to conflate "pro style" with pocket passer who can't run. That is not what most pro QBs look like.
It's important to not conflate having an NFL caliber QB with having a pocket passer who can't run. That is not what most NFL caliber QBs look like.
JJ was a pro caliber QB who can run - like Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen or Joe Milton.
"Michigan beat PSU in 2023 because the other team shut down the pass, but Michigan was able to run. Both phases of offense have to be available in order to win."
DeleteThese two sentences are contradictory. They illustrate the larger point that there are different ways to win. They won in the second half by running with the RB AND running with the QB - because the pass game was shut down.
You describe that QB rushing ability as redundant but it seems like it's a 3rd option that you aren't fully respecting given past history and current events (including 2022 AFC final where Mahomes and Allen each led their teams in rushing). Nobody is saying this is more important being able to pass the ball, but it's not nothing.
"Michigan can do better than Orji at QB"
DeleteGreat news! Let's see it.
If this is true then I recommend they do it. Fully endorsed. Get the better guy in there!
.....What's his name?
Ah there's the rub. It's not clear if that guy is on our roster right now is it? The coaches don't seem to think there's a better option. So maybe we might consider the opposite statement - that they can't do better. That Orji is the best Michigan can do, at least right now.
The continued, ongoing, and unsailable issue in your argument is the assertion that Orji cannot pass. Maybe he can't! Maybe he can! He seems to be able to given the coaches faith in him, stated, and observed.
You've given the benefit of the doubt before, to a host of guys who hadn't demonstrated that they can pass early in their career. Including McCaffrey -- a guy who was neither as good of a passer as Denard Robinson and nor as good of a runner as Denard Robinson.
Is Orji a better passer than McCaffrey? -- I don't know but I would bet on it. McCaffrey was... not a good passer. He was not good at passing at Michigan and He was not good at passing at Colorado State. 2018 was a different season than 2023, but McCaffrey's sophomore year showed a guy whose most impressive strength was his running ability and it was downhill from there.
Let's just wait and see how it goes before making the ASSUMPTION that Orji can't pass the ball.
Orji has a very good arm and his legs are an asset. The last guy who fit this description was a guy you were highly critical of and he's a few days away from being drafted into the NFL. So maybe take a beat and let this playout and trust our coaching staff (the architects of the last 3 seasons) to put the best guy out there, even if that's not an NFL caliber QB this time.
Nobody and I mean nobody is saying Orji is a lock to be a great passer. But his running ability doesn't take away from that possibility.
Finally and again, I'm still on record as saying it'll be Tuttle but at this point I'm losing confidence in that and think at best it'll be a 2 QB rotation with Orji.
I don't think we can be Navy. I think it's pretty hard to win if you aren't passing at least 1/3 of the time. Michigan has already pushed the limit
DeleteJust to put things in perspective "option" football with Denard compared to "pro style" football with Harbaugh:
2023 Harbaugh ran 563 times and passed 260 times
2010 Rodriguez ran 556 times and passed 385 times
-----------------------------------
You have to threaten the pass to have an elite offense -- you can do that with a running QB, or a pocket QB, but the best option is to have a dual threat QB who does both.
In my eyes, Orji wouldn't be in the conversation if he couldn't do that.
To Thunder. "insiders are saying Orji is in a battle with Denegal...and Warren...not to mention potentially Tuttle, who is injured this spring."
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly as it should be. I'm not sayin I love Orji, I'd prefer a balanced football team also. My point is that if the other guys can't win the job by throwing it better than Orji can run it, RUN IT!!!!!!!
je93 says Orji gets us 8 or 9 wins. Are any of the other guys making you think you have a championship football team? To me this is about as uninspiring a group as I can imagine. This includes Orji the passer. I don't think one of those guys can win in Columbus with their arm.
I'm saying, "Time for Plan B."
Harbaugh's test of a QB should be everybody's standard for QB ... ing. Who's scoring the ball?
As to je93, clearly RR's offense has been solved, but there is little to no evidence that ours has been ... yet. Pat White kicked ass inside of the last 20 years, running the football. Urban Meyer won two national championships at Florida with a guy who couldn't throw it very well, particularly at first. Then he kicked our ass well and good at OSU. All of this during a period of time where people were falling in love with the "Air Raid" .... "basketball on grass" and whatever else they called stuff.
I love Mike Leach too, by the way, but we have kicked ass for the last 3 years for sure, running the football, If your QB can't throw it well and they haven't stopped you from running it, run the football, until they prove they can.
That's pretty much the essence of football, is it not?
Just dawned on me. The game is called "Football" not handball. Handball is a non contact game played by middle aged me at the DAC.
DeleteJust having fun
Roanman
To be clear, I don't think any of the QBs on roster is good enough. Maaaybe a well balanced game plan can get us to nine wins. Maybe, but I don't think we can pass nearly well enough with Orji, but do think w can run well enough without. In other words, I don't see TX, Oregon or ohio falling because we had Orji over one of the other four. We all have QB at #1 portal need, and the coaches probably do too. So what are we even disagreeing on?
DeleteBack to White ... Have defenses evolved? Would WV win 11 games with that offense now? I don't think so, and no coach is trying
Harball has not been solved. But you know what makes that easier? A one dimension offense behind a brand new OL
Also, on Tebow and JT Barrett types, they could pass within their offense, and both did so at a high rate of efficiency
DeleteWe have nothing to go off in assuming Orji can be successful in MICHIGAN's professional level passing scheme. We tried a highly inaccurate QB in the recent past, and "setup for failure" has been his excuse ever since
@Roanman
DeleteSpot on. The counter arguments here are really goofy logic.
Nobody here is arguing that Orji is a lock nor that we shouldn't go into the portal -- just that if your best guy is a runner you go with your best guy and gameplan accordingly. This (using a QB who is an asset in the run game) is a winning recipe, proven many times.
It's only complicated if you ignore running ability and consider it a redundant skill when it clearly and historically is not redundant but highly valuable and additive.
JEL asks what are we aruguing about -- and the answer is if a running QB is your best option should you use him at starter, or should you assume he can't play because we prefer to have someone better?
"We have nothing to go off in assuming Orji can be successful in MICHIGAN's professional level passing scheme"
Same for Tuttle, Davis, Warren, Denegal.
What we have to go off on Orji is that a) he's 1st QB right now and b) he was used effectively as a QB to close last year - even with the caveat that it was a specialist package -- that's not nothing! Dude made plays, repeatedly, against some of the best defenses in the country on the biggest stage in the game. That's not nothing! AND he had the composure to not risk a dubious throw when given the opportunity against Alabama. That's not nothing! AND he's drawing high praise for his leadership from within the team AND he's entering his junior year when everyone has previously optimistically expected notable leaps from guys like McCaffrey and Peters and McNamara.
We have nothing to indicate that Orji can't pass within the Michigan offense or do so at a high rate of efficiency. Being JJ's backup on a national title team and an elite rush threat mean your sophomore year usage might not be all that informative of your passing upside.
We have nothing to indicate much either way about Orji's passing. We don't know! Spring games are it -- and he showed capable throwing ability. Not JJ. Not incapable.
The arguments that amount to "Orji = no effective passing game" aren't remotely compelling. Orji is worse than McCarthy -- yes that's a given and we all know and agree.
Orji is unproven as a passer -- yes that's a given and we all know and agree.
Neither thing makes it a slam dunk that Orji can't operate an offense effectively, especially if it's adapted around his skills and his limitations, just as the 2021 offense was adapted around the skills and limitations of its starting QB, and the 2011 offense, and the 2015 offense, and...
Words, words, words ... you spent all day yesterday and introduced no new & relevant point
DeleteLies, misdirection & other nonsense has been recycled
@JEL
DeleteWe know you're not good with words. Do you have a point to make or just here to talk to Lank again?
Many points made. Too easy
DeleteLyinLank, outsmarted. Again
Nothing to say. No cogent points to make. Reading jeL posts is like the youtube comments section except for you know how hard he's trying but the fantasy is so out of reach. Funny tho.
DeleteWaller's departure moves CB up to #1 though Nickel could be 1b.
ReplyDeleteOur secondary losses (in order of importance) Moore, Sainristil, Wallace, Sabb, and Waller.
We get back Johnson, Paige, and QJo (phew) but need 7 to rotate (at a minimum) so need 4 to step in. Berry, Hill, and McBurrows top the list. Hilliman close behind. These freshman better be ready!
The dropoff from Sainristil -> McBurrows, Moore -> Berry, and Wallace -> Hill is going to be severe. Moreover, there does not seem to be a talent like Sabb waiting in the wings, especially with Waller gone.
In February this looked like a position of strength and many were saying no big deal to losing Sabb, but suddenly it looks like a weak spot. Hopefully the Portal is utilized.