RUSH OFFENSE vs. INDIANA RUSH DEFENSE
Michigan is #62 in rushing offense (165 yards/game) and #62 in yards per carry (4.59). Hooray for consistency! Unfortunately, the Wolverines have not topped 4.0 yards per carry in any of the last three games. Last week they managed just 105 yards on 28 carries against Oregon, and that's with quarterback Davis Warren not taking any sacks. The Ducks had Michigan's running game downloaded last week and the Wolverines got just 16 yards from Kalel Mullings and 52 yards from Donovan Edwards, as Michigan started the game by trying to run laterally without much success. Both RT Andrew Gentry (lost for the season against Michigan State) and backup OT Jeffrey Persi (left last week's game due to a leg injury) are presumably out, meaning Michigan had to revert to struggling redshirt freshman RT Evan Link. Indiana is #1 in the country in rush defense (72.6 yards/game) and #2 in yards allowed per carry (2.52). They shut down Michigan State's rushing offense completely last week, holding the Spartans to -36 rushing yards on 32 overall attempts. Junior JMU transfer Aiden Fisher (6'1", 233) leads the team with 84 tackles from his linebacker position, and senior JMU transfer Jailin Walker (6'1", 218) is second with 52. They're #11 in tackles for loss per game (7.67). Michigan's run game has been struggling for the past couple weeks, so unless they figure out how to use RPOs with Davis Warren, I think it's going to be tough sledding.
Advantage: Indiana
Hit the jump for more.
PASS OFFENSE vs. INDIANA PASS DEFENSE
The Wolverines are #128 in passing offense (134.3 yards/game) and #131 in yards per attempt (5.8). They have topped 200 yards through the air just twice this season; Warren played a solid game last week, but he finished just 13/23 for 165 yards and 2 touchdowns. In four full games Warren has started with a healthy Colston Loveland, Loveland is averaging 7.3 catches, 84 yards, and 0.75 touchdowns. No other receivers do much of anything, and Edwards - a plus receiver out of the backfield - is severely underused. Michigan is tied for #50 in sacks allowed per game (1.56), a number that looks better than it is, considering how little Michigan drops back to pass; they're #113 in pass attempts. Indiana is #27 in passing defense (188.4 yards allowed/game) and #10 in yards allowed per attempt (5.9). They have allowed just 8 touchdowns while making 11 interceptions, and they're #20 in passing efficiency. Teams are actually completing 62.2% of their passes against the Hoosiers, which is a lowly #84 in the country, but the overall numbers suggest the completions are checkdowns that get stopped before they can do much damage. Sophomore Rover Amare Ferrell (6'2", 200) leads the team with 4 interceptions, and the Hoosiers have returned 2 interceptions for touchdowns this season. The team is #7 in sacks per game (3.44), led by senior JMU transfer Mikail Kamara (6'1", 265) with 9.5 sacks. Michigan can't pass the ball, anyway, so it's probably unrealistic to expect them to be able to do much against a solid pass defense.
Advantage: Indiana
RUSH DEFENSE vs. INDIANA RUSH OFFENSE
Michigan is #23 in rushing defense (109.3 yards allowed/game) and tied for #25 in yards allowed per carry (3.55). The last three opponents have reached at least 163 yards on the ground and 3.88 yards per attempt. Oregon last week managed to score 4 rushing touchdowns, the most anyone has scored since the infamous performance by Michigan State's Kenneth Walker in 2021. Inside linebackers Ernest Hausmann (66) and Jaishawn Barham (53) lead the squad in tackles. Michigan averages 5.89 tackles for loss per game, which is #59 nationally. Indiana is #30 in rushing offense (191.9 yards/game) and #41 in yards per carry (4.92). They have scored 32 rushing touchdowns this season, which is second only to Army's 33. Fifth year senior RB Justice Ellison (5'9", 210) is #8 in the Big Ten in rushing yards (669) and #7 in yards per carry (6.03). And backup Ty Son Lawton (5'9", 208) is no slouch, either, with 453 yards, a 4.83 yards/carry average, and 9 rushing scores. The offensive line averages about 314 pounds and they're coached by former Wisconsin and NFL offensive line coach Bob Bostad (side note: Bostad made an odd move from 2017-2021 when he coached inside linebackers at Wisconsin, which is strange for a former NFL OL coach). I think this will be a challenge for Indiana's offensive line, but the last couple teams - including MSU - have found a way to run the ball, and both Ellison and Lawton have a little bit of juice, perhaps more than MSU's duo. This might be a frustrating day for the Wolverines.
Advantage: Indiana
PASS DEFENSE vs. INDIANA PASS OFFENSE
Michigan is #95 in passing defense (235.8 yards allowed/game) and #45 in yards allowed per attempt (6.7). They're #62 in passing efficiency defense. After missing #2 cornerback Jyaire Hill last week, they should be a little closer to full strength this week with Hill likely coming back; the status of All-American cornerback Will Johnson is a little murkier, as he's missed the past couple games with turf toe. If #3 corner Aamir Hall is forced into the role of a #1 guy again, things could get frustrating once again. On the plus side, Michigan has the #3 sack guy in the Big Ten (Josaiah Stewart with 6.5). On the other side, Indiana is #19 in passing offense (284.3 yards/game) and #3 in yards per attempt (10.2). Sixth year senior JMU transfer QB Kurtis Rourke (6'5", 223) completes 73.3% of his throws for 10.5 yards/attempt, 19 touchdowns, and just 3 interceptions. His 275.5 passing yards/game is ahead of the pace of star Indiana (and Washington) quarterback Michael Penix from 2020, when Penix put up 274.4 yards/game and wowed the country as he threw the ball around the yard to Ty Frofogle and Whop Philyor. Junior wideout Elijah Sarratt (6'2", 209) leads the team with 37 catches for 649 yards and 5 touchdowns, but five receivers have 21+ receptions, and tight end Zach Horton (6'4", 252) has 16 catches. Sophomore wideout Omar Cooper, Jr. (6'0", 201) is a big-play guy averaging 22.6 yards/catch on 21 receptions. Rourke gets rid of the ball quickly, and the Hoosiers are #6 nationally in giving up just 0.78 sacks per game. Michigan has more talent on defense than Indiana has seen, but Rourke seems to know where to go with the ball, and offensive coordinator Mike Shanahan (not that Mike Shanahan) seems to know what answers to provide to Rourke.
Advantage: Indiana
ROSTER NOTES
- Indiana players recruited by Michigan: QB Tayven Jackson, S Josh Sanguinetti, OL Trey Wedig
- Indiana players from the state of Michigan include: TE Brody Kosin (Clarkston)
PREDICTION
- Indiana 30, Michigan 20
3(!) passes to The Don, including a tuddy ... UM wins, 24-2o
ReplyDeleteje93, I admire your continual belief in our football team to turn the corner despite having seen zero evidence that they are able to do so. I shall not be fooled again (at least not this season). Indiana 30 Michigan 17.
ReplyDeleteHaha, it's a game day thing
Deleteohio & even NW? Big losses. But as the day approaches, I almost always think we'll pull it out. 2o2o, Hoke & RR were the only times I couldn't muster the fanatic in me
GO BLUE
2nd Half our D made them look like old Indiana. Offense doesn't have enough playmakers, and even if they did the Coaches are lost
ReplyDeleteAnother game. Another heartbreak. As I watched Doman kick the short punt, my thoughts went “Here we go again. We are going to lose today.”
ReplyDeleteFire the SpTms coach asap
DeleteI'm sitting here watching Michigan basketball and seeing how well organized and conceived the team is. It's a sharp contrast from last year's team, and the Juwan Howard era as a whole. You can see it. You can feel it. Win or lose, they are a well coached team who knows what they are trying to do, even if they can't always execute it, there is clear intent and understanding, and as a fan, you know that it makes sense.
ReplyDeleteSaw the same contrast yesterday. The guys wearing white and red may not have elite talent, but the coaches have a plan for them. They know what they are supposed to do and the fans know that it makes sense, win or lose. There is no excuse being made about year 0 or year 1 -- they put their system in and taught their guys to execute it.
Sherrone Moore has not done done that. Is there a worse coached team in America? Is there a team that does less with the talent that they have? The failures are comprehensive. Game theory decisions have been terrible all year. Just one of MANY examples yesterday, when Michigan hit it's second field goal of the day -- Indiana's win probability went UP. That's how bad that decision was. We score and our chances of winning go down.
I just don't see how this level of incompetence is redeemable. Maybe Moore has a learning curve ahead of him. He is young and will get better. But he is not anywhere close to being capable of coaching at the level that Michigan expects to be at. He is in over his head.
I have always thought head coaches should get 4 years minimum unless there were egregious issues. Moore's incompetence is egregious. He should be fired the day after the Ohio State game. He will not be, but he should be.
At this point I expect a miserable 2025 season and the best case scenario is that it is bad enough that Michigan gets their next head coach on a timeline similar to Cignetti (who Indiana announced as their coach on Nov 30th last year), so that the head coach can assess his roster, build his staff, and work the portal in December.
I really wanted to believe in the Moore experiment, but this year's results are rather convicting. I feel sorry for Moore ... I think he truly wants to do what's best and right, but I just don't think he knows the path out of where he finds himself now. He was thrown into the deep end of the pool, and he seems only barely able to swim.
DeleteWarde Manuel dare not let this go three or four years. At at bare minimum, he should get from Moore the plan for post-season, and that plan should consist of specific actions around staff reformatting, and a portal strategy. As athletic director, he's ultimately responsible for the health of the department, and football is his crown jewel. He has to take an interest.
It's not even the results that are the problem. It's the way they are losing that is a problem. It should be notable that the one TD drive Michigan managed to put together yesterday was all running plays. Yet they've spent every game since Washington trying to beat their opponents through the air.
DeleteMichigan should absolutely be turning it's attention to attacking the portal in December. I hope to be pleasantly surprised. I think Moore is more focused on high school than the portal.
By "results" I meant not just the final score, but also the means by which they attained the scores. It is often best to assume a wider interpretation of what's written in forums such as this, and not focus so closely on individual words.
DeleteIf Moore thinks he can get by in this day and age on *just* a high school recruiting pipeline, then he's delusional and should be fired in the off-season. That's particularly true after what we're seeing *this* season.
But equally as important, he can't assume that *just* the portal is his answer, because it's not. This present team has greater-than-average talent, and it's not being developed or utilized.
So I go back to the responsibility that's on Warde Manuel's desk: light the fire under Moore and demand from him his off-season plan to correction. In the business world people are often put on "performance improvement plans," with very specific goals set out. Manuel should demand from Moore what his plan is to make sure this year does not repeat into next year. It should be on Manuel's desk the week after the Ohio State game.
I don't think Moore or anyone else is suggesting Moore could ignore the Portal entirely. It's about what you choose to emphasize and Moore emphasized, from literally his first week on the job, high school recruiting.
DeleteI also don't think anyone is saying stop recruiting high school entirely and focus on the portal. But --- how many freshman is Indiana relying on? When you need rapid improvement, at scale, the Portal is the more effective method.
I don't think Moore's strategy on personnel looks very promising but it's kind of beside the point (except at QB). This team is losing because of coaching, not because of personnel. There are limitations, yes, but Michigan has a host of high NFL draft choices on the roster, a bunch of high 4 star recruits, and plenty of seniors who have been getting coached by Sherrone Moore and Kirk Campbell for several years. The problem is the coaches don't know how to use the talent they have.
I don't think a PIP is going to fix these issues with Moore. In my experience PIPs are effective at making improvements but they don't turn bad employees into good employees or unqualified people into qualified people.
While 2024 is a coaching problem not a personnel problem, there are going to be A LOT of personnel problems on the 2025 team. Is this coaching staff going to do what it takes to overcome them? No. They can't even overcome a single weakness (at QB), how are they going to overcome weak position groups all over the roster? Even if they hit the jackpot with Underwood (don't hold your breath) how are they going to overcome the fact that he's almost certainly going to make a lot of freshman mistakes on a weekly basis. They can't -- they can't even get 22 and 25 year old QBs to stop creating turnover opportunities on a weekly basis.
The PIP puts Moore on notice, and forces him to confront the reality of what he's facing. It can't be coach-speak such as "better execution," or "get better." There needs to be specific plans for the firing of staff and hiring of new staff; specific plans for the areas needing portal transfers, and the strategy for getting those holes filled; and specific plans for NIL to shore up the whole operation. Then the burden is on Manuel to see if Moore is capable and/or serious, and if neither, then he should be fired after the Ohio State game.
DeleteManuel won't, of course. So we should brace ourselves for probably no better than 6-win ceilings for the next three years.
I get all the frustration. I'm frustrated and kind of in a malaise about this team, too.
DeleteBut I think a lot of people are being too harsh on Moore. It's not JUST a coaching problem. It's a personnel problem, too. I think we've gone through the calendar enough that I don't need to belabor this point, but by the time Michigan was looking in the portal and sorted through the Harbaugh/McCarthy depatures, the vast majority of quality portal entrants had already landed somewhere. The calendar needs to be fixed, because teams making deep runs in the playoffs shouldn't be punished by not being able to evaluate the portal and sort through their departures.
If Michigan had a good quarterback, Michigan wins the game yesterday. I'm not even that down on Davis Warren - even though I agree he had a poor game yesterday - but there was a lot of meat left on the bone. We've talked about this extensively, but Michigan's only chance to get a good portal QB would have come if they made some kind of back channel attempt to convince someone to jump in the portal post-spring.
I think it's incredibly unfair to call for Moore's firing when he not only hasn't had a full high school recruiting cycle to work with, but he also didn't even have an entire PORTAL cycle to work through. He was set up for failure/mediocrity, and he's achieving that.
There were also MAJOR frustrations with Jim Harbaugh's clock management back in 2015, 2016, etc., and those magically went away in the past few years. So some of the stuff about Moore's clock/timeout management is also unfair, in my opinion. Maybe this season teaches him that he needs to study game situations this off-season, assign an assistant/analyst to work those scenarios, etc. That's something that can be improved. Poor clock management is not necessarily a life sentence.
FYI: I have had to manage the clock before, and I made mistakes earlier in my career that have since improved. I have kind of two diverging thoughts on this:
1. Moore is getting paid millions of dollars, so he should know how to manage the lock.
2. It's not easy to be on the sideline and manage personnel, headset communications, talk to officials, think about replays, etc. and still manage the clock. A head coach has A LOT to think about. It's much easier if someone in the booth can help out with clock management.
It's frustration bubbling out from me, and the source is the truly uninspiring offensive performance. If that's Campbell, then Moore should step in and take more control. It's so bad it's starting to become a talking point out there. Something has to change. A good recruiting class plugged into the system that produces what we're seeing will be wasted.
Deleteback channel attempts should have started mid-LAST season, and be a year round thing. Until/unless this transfer mess is fixed, savvy Coaching staffs should have a guy/crew assigned to scrubbing rosters, film & working Analyst/Coaching underground for playmakers who fit their needs (even if contingent)
DeleteAs for clock management, sure it's a b:tch. Basketball is worse because the pace of the game ... but that's why you need a guy/crew who keep track of such things, and no when to assert their input and when to STFU
I think when the dust settles, and the history of what really happened in Schembechler Hall last year, we'll find that Harbaugh was *all in* in 2023, with every intention of leaving after that season regardless. I suspect he insisted on focusing on the *now* and setting aside future considerations. There probably were voices calling for preparing for 2024 and beyond, but they received little or no attention from Harbaugh.
DeleteThat's perfectly fine for the Head Coach, and maybe coordinators ... but you have a staff for delegating tasks & priorities that aren't 'the main thing'
DeleteIf I'm understanding you, then that staff that should have received the delegation either (a) didn't get the memo, or (b) having got it, failed to execute on it. If (a), then it's on Harbaugh; if (b) then it's also on Harbaugh because one of the key things is follow-up to make sure things are getting done.
DeleteI think there's more than enough evidence to suggest Harbaugh didn't even have such an organizational structure. And yeah, that's on him ...
DeleteBut when Sherrone was hired, that should have been on the To Do list. I said last spring that he should have guys tampering rosters for QB, WR & CB at least, and then looking at depth for DT & areas that we don't know about (practice evident weak spots)
Maybe he has that now, and things improve next year. I'm not on the Fire Sherrone bandwagon just yet (thanks sparty), and am willing to wait & see
You may be right -- Moore has been building the necessary structure for competing in today's college game, it's just the fruit of that effort has not yet materialized.
DeleteI've said before: there's the story we see through the lens of what passes for sports journalism nowadays, and there's the REAL story of what's going on. It could be that Moore knows exactly what's wrong, and has a plan to address it, but that disruption mid-season isn't called for. Or it could be he doesn't know.
I'll reiterate my opinion that it's not an issue of personnel. Yes, QB is weak but it was weak in 2021. You can coach around a weakness. Michigan is emphasizing it.
DeleteOL is not as good as it was in 21-23 but it's a lot of vets and guys that Moore has coached for several years now. No reason for our OL to be holding back the offense just because they aren't Joe Moore winners. Plenty of teams manage bad OLs by coaching quick decisive passing games and not asking their OL to do too much.
TE is really deficient other than Loveland but again there is talent there and the decision to ignore the Portal was one that Moore made. WR is subpar as a group but they've never been all that important in the Harbaugh/Moore offense and there is talent available, plus Loveland playing there often.
The personnel is not optimal but it is manageable. things that Moore could have addressed but decided not to (other than Charleston and Walker).
Of course there was going to be a drop off from 2023, and you can put in on personnel if this team was 9-3 or 8-4, but they are 5-5. No program is wasting more premium NFL talent. You can argue a place like FSU is doing worse but their players have quit on the team and the season -- Michigan's players are still playing their butts off.
The big issues are on offense -- where Michigan returned a lot of good players and mostly ignored the portal and where Moore/Campbell returned is the most alarming thing. They knew what they had and chose to do nothing, meanwhile they got Zvada and a bunch of DBs when they (correctly) diagnosed issues there.
The defense has largely been OK. Not great but they have adapted and improved as the season has gone on. No real complaints there, and that's the side of the ball where Moore is mostly hands off.
Delete"The calendar needs to be fixed, because teams making deep runs in the playoffs shouldn't be punished by not being able to evaluate the portal and sort through their departures."
I actually think this is fine. It's kind of like giving the best teams lower draft choices in pro sports. Anyway there is still plenty of Portal window left after December. This should be the job of GMs, analysts, and player personnel types anyway, not the coaching staff.
""If Michigan had a good quarterback, Michigan wins the game yesterday. "
This is true but they also win if the coaches aren't doing overtly dumb things.
"Michigan's only chance to get a good portal QB would have come if they made some kind of back channel attempt to convince someone to jump in the portal post-spring."
Yes - just like they did at kicker and DB. I don't see any problem here.
"I think it's incredibly unfair to call for Moore's firing when he not only hasn't had a full high school recruiting cycle to work with, but he also didn't even have an entire PORTAL cycle to work through. He was set up for failure/mediocrity, and he's achieving that."
Moore was here! It's the players he recruited on offense. It's the players he actively chose to stick with, eschewing the portal. This wasn't him being dealt a bad hand in cards, he's the one doing the dealing!''
Harbaugh's clock management was never great, even in 2021-2023. Unfortunately that's one thing Moore has held onto and exacerbated.
I agree it can be improved but there is no reason to assume it will.
@ Lank 5:08 p.m.
Delete"This should be the job of GMs, analysts, and player personnel types anyway, not the coaching staff."
It can't be the job of anyone if teams playing in January have players and coaches who haven't decided what they're going to do the next year. Jim Harbaugh, J.J. McCarthy, and others literally couldn't decide whether to go to the NFL before January 9 (or whatever day the NC game was) unless they were going to announce before their season was over. How is an analyst supposed to decide whether to contact an elite portal QB or not if McCarthy didn't announce his decision until mid-January?
You're not understanding what is being said. The vast majority of other teams were able to address their portal needs in December/early January, because teams were either done (if they didn't make a bowl) or they were close to being done (since most weren't playing in January). Guys could make decisions, take visits, etc. Michigan was cut off from probably 50% of the "free agents."
That's not a level playing field. And it's not the same as the NFL, because NFL teams retain the vast majority of their best players. Super Bowl teams have guys who want to stick around so they can win another championship. National championship teams have guys who want to jump to the NFL (if they can) to get bags of money.
The only way your comparison would work is if Pat Mahomes, Chris Jones, Travis Kelce, etc. won their first Super Bowl a few years ago, retired, and let the Chiefs fill the roster holes with an expansion draft from the rest of the NFL.
" How is an analyst supposed to decide whether to contact an elite portal QB or not if McCarthy didn't announce his decision until mid-January?"
DeleteThis one is pretty easy. You go ahead and contact the QB.
You tell them he is going pro and there will be an opening. In the business world this is called "succession planning" and it generally applies to internal development but if you KNOW you don't have the internal people you have a plan in place to find the external replacement. If JJ does the surprising thing that would have been a surprise to most people, you say "oops that was a surprise". Which is the truth.
You plan for the expected thing to happen and you don't just go "oh well guess we'll start this guy who wasn't good enough to start at Indiana, or this guy who can't really pass but we think is a good guy and can run, or this guy who is a walk-on who didn't even start in high school. You also plan for the unexpected thing to happen (like Keon Sabb leaving and Rod Moore getting hurt).
You have a plan -- and that plan is you RECRUIT A QB FROM THE PORTAL. And if that plan fails in December and January then you go back to Plan B which is...the same plan as Plan A! LOL. You still go to the Portal you just find yourself the type of dudes we found at DB ad Kicker instead the QB equivalent of starting Adam Samaha at kicker and Jaden McBurrows at corner. In other words....you tamper. You say "we need you and we need you here, at Michigan, to compete for a starting job that is open for you to win"
"Michigan was cut off from probably 50% of the "free agents."
I understand what is being said perfectly -- but it's a terrible excuse.
Michigan was NOT cut off from free agents -- they got Barham and Priebe in this timeframe (both on 1/8). They did not pursue multiple other positions that had no unexpected departures; OT, WR, TE, CB in this timeframe.
Moreover, they don't NEED to have access to 100% of the portal to be successful in the portal. We saw that with DB and K getting addressed in the spring. 50% access to the portal is still plenty of access to the portal.
When Sherrone Moore was hired he was flying around the country visiting high school recruits. He made his priority clear and it was not immediately addressing the 2024 roster via the Portal.
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I agree it's not a level playing field, neither is a draft or being in a salary cap situation most winning teams are in -- with lots of money committed to proven players and limited ability to spend in free agency.
There was nothing prohibitive for Michigan to be more competitive in the portal. That goes for getting guys in december or january and it goes for keeping guys (like Sabb and Hibner, who just a 100 yard receiving game against Pitt and is bigger than every TE on our roster) and it goes for getting guys in april and may.
"Super Bowl teams have guys who want to stick around so they can win another championship." So did Michigan. We have the best starting DL in the country, the best TE in the country, 2 NFL-caliber RBs, and 90% of our starters would be starters at a place like Indiana.
It's college football - it's not a level playing field. It's never been a level playing field. A Michigan fan should now that better than anyone.
Some of the excuses for Moore ignore the fact that he was the OC coach. They would make sense of he was hired in from the outside. But no one should have had a better sense of what was coming, or have a plan to address it, than the previous OC turned head coach.
DeleteOL is mediocre despite lots of vets? Guess who's fault that is? QB room lacks talent? Him and Campbell should have known, and planned and acted accordingly.
And that goes for January, may, August, and October. At QB, They haven't done it a single time!
I feel like I'm talking to a wall.
DeletePriebe and Barham committed to a team that was absolutely, 100% losing Michael Barrett (a sixth year senior in 2023 with zero eligibility remaining) and almost certainly losing 5th year senior Trevor Keegan and/or fourth year senior Zak Zinter. The only thing preventing the latter two from leaving was the COVID year exemption, which could have kept them around for 2024, but they already spurned the NFL in 2023 for a chance to win a national championship.
Michigan was also losing Trente Jones, Karsen Barnhart, and Drake Nugent. There was room aplenty to add a lineman, even if it would mean that somebody might have to shift around. For example, even if Keegan or Zinter stayed, perhaps they could have shifted to tackle or center to get the best five out there.
Only one QB plays at any given time (except for trick plays or whatever). No McCarthy means an open job. The presence of McCarthy means you're sitting on the bench.
If your solution is to lie to an elite QB to get him on campus and then say "oopsy, sorry!" after he enrolls and then has to sit behind McCarthy, that's a pretty disingenuous solution. I mean, I guess your criticism of Sherrone Moore is that he's...NOT a liar?
I feel like you are arguing with yourself here Thunder. Priebe could have taken the view that there wasn't an opportunity based on who MIGHT return. He could have assumed El Hadi was grabbing one OG spot and that with Keegan and Zinter both maintaining eligibility one (if not both) could return. The inn was full. He didn't, because he very reasonably assumed that a couple veteran players would go to the NFL. The expected thing happened and a starting spot was open for him.
DeleteSame thing could have happened at QB. McCarthy was projected as a 1st round pick and few 1st round picks stay in college. He had the option of returning but it was never a likelihood. It's not a lie to say "this guy is projected to go in the first round of the draft, we expect him to be gone, but he hasn't announced yet". Announcing during a playoff run would be a terrible decision anyway. Of course he hasn't announced it, even if he is 100% gone. Just like Keegan/Zinter.
Bottomline the expected thing happened. And there was no response.
My criticism is that Campbell and Moore had no plan when the expected thing happened.
If you don't like my proposed solution in December and January (make a succession plan and act on it) that's one thing but that ignores the proposed solution in April and May. We can pretend like Michigan quietly waited on a sideline and didn't tamper with anyone but Dominic Zvada signed with Michigan 10 days after entering the Portal, Amorian Walker came 5 days after entering, and Ricky Johnson was flipped while committed to Washington State.
The conversations are being had before guys enter the Portal. I think you are lying to yourself if you say Michigan isn't doing it, but even if you do say that other schools are and Michigan would be derilect if they did not do it. That would be on Moore and Sean McGee especially.
The best excuse I can come up with is to give Moore/Campbell the benefit of the doubt and assume they HAD the conversations with QBs, tried to recruit them, but nothing ever got out there to the public. But again, I don't see much reason to give Moore/Campbell the benefit of the doubt given what we have seen.
Priebe and Barham came to address known and acknowledged holes in the lineup but there were a host of others, known in December. Including the lack of in-line TE, the lack of a proven reliable WR, the lack of a QB. We know Michigan tried and failed to land a starting caliber WR and a solid backup DT but we have heard crickets with some of the other deficiencies.
And since Link is the starter at OT, that should have been identified as another deficiency back in Dec/Jan too. Why did Moore/Campbell do nothing if they knew their options were that bad at OT? If they knew how mediocre Crippen is? If they had zero trust in Raheem Anderson?
The approach to managing a roster was terrible. The returning pieces COULD be a playoff team with a few key additions and good coaching, but we got not enough from the Portal and the coaching is bad.
@ Lank 12:58 p.m.
DeleteIf you can't see the difference between a position group that was losing 6 offensive linemen - creating 5 open starting spots - and a position group that was losing 1 quarterback - creating 1 open spot - then I don't know what to tell you.
Also...Moore/Campbell weren't in charge. At that point they were subordinates to Jim Harbaugh. If Harbaugh said not to tamper, then they shouldn't have tampered. There's legal tampering and there's illegal tampering. Now I'm not in a place to determine what Michigan did/does, but Sam Webb has repeatedly said that Michigan needs to do the legal kind of tampering more. And Sam Webb knows more about that stuff than I do.
Also, I'm not sure that I've seen any transfer decisions for Michigan that have been as quick and cut-and-dried as elsewhere. For example, Keon Sabb entered the transfer portal on a Wednesday and was committed to Alabama by Friday (or something like that). Most of the guys who commit to Michigan through the transfer portal have visits reported, offers reported, etc.
I think the level of competition is a highly relevant factor here. Priebe wasn't ever a potential OT, but if he was, Hinton, Persi, and Gentry are more intimidating competition for 2 spots than Warren, Tuttle, and Orji are for 1 spot. At center you had Crippen and Anderson getting a lot of hype (which turned out to be unwarranted, but still). OG looked more enticing because you (probably) only had El Hadi projecting to a starting spot and the other spot pretty open.
DeletePriebe was an OG who looked at the OG room and made the same logical projection others made -- there's probably going to be an open spot for me to compete for. The same logical projection could have been made at QB. I don't think it's as different as you asserting.
There was going to be SOME competition, because this is MIchigan, and they recruit high caliber players. But some positions are more open than others and QB and OG were near the top of the list assuming the NFL guys went to the NFL as expected.
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I also don't think your assertion that Harbaugh told people not to tamper is valid. First of all, Harbaugh is notorious for trying to bend rules and find every advantage he can. Secondly, numerous coaching connections play a big role in Michigan portal transfers (e.g., Josh Wallace/Don Brown, e.g., Poggi/Okie) and it seems like a big stretch to assume these are all reactive situations, post-portal declaration.
Specific examples of very shot time windows -- LaDarius Henderson committed to Michigan one day after the portal. Tuttle and Turner were 3 days. Okie was also 3 days, and there was talk there too about vetting on character issues and an endorsement from Poggi. It's pretty obvious these things started before the portal announcements were made.
I'm agreeing that they need to do it more. Specifically, they needed to be doing it at QB. In modern football rosters are never going to be finalized in December or even January.
Bottomline -- We can't pretend like all roster decisions have to be known before programs go out and try to get additions from the portal, nor can we pretend like programs are only talking to people who have officially declared their interest. This is very obviously NOT how it works, elsewhere, or at Michigan.
Michigan didn't do enough there and yeah you can blame Harbaugh for it if you want to, and you can make excuses about timing, but Moore and Campbell were here all along, standing by the writing on the wall.
Also remember that Tuttle's exemption was not a given and he should not have been expected back either.
DeleteIn December, the 2024 depth chart looked like what it is now back in December -- Warren (a walk-on) and Orji (a running QB who you like to emphasize had no pass attempts) a freshman and another 3 star who hadn't shown anything. Even optimistic maize-tinted glasses fans didn't really expect JJ to come back (though maybe we held out hope for a miracle).
The QB room looked as open last December as it looked this August, and the offensive braintrust did nothing. They didn't find something better nor did they change their offense to address the limitation. That's on them, not anyone else.
I have to agree with Lank here. Moore was the OC. He should have come to the logical conclusion that the QB position is awfully bare in the event that JJ leaves for the NFL. And I would have put that probability at least at 70% or higher. I am not asking him to lie but telling the recruit that JJ is most likely not coming back is not a lie. If the elite transfer QB is not coming, there are still decent QBs to be had that are better than Davis/Orji/Tuttle. He was also the former Oline coach. He should known that Tackles are a problem spot. I still believe that the reason for the lack of recruitment is overconfidence rather than a lack of targets or short portal windows (look at how they are going after Underwood). There are ways to flip transfer commitment without breaking the rules.
DeleteYes -- Cannot just throw your hands up and go "well there's a 10% chance JJ comes back so we just don't know what we should do here".
DeleteIf that's your approach to things then you are going to fail which means you are unqualified to be the head coach at Michigan.
Which is the case.
I think FT is spot on here - there is an overconfidence coming from this offensive staff, the assumption that they can just out-talent and out-execute people. It's reminiscent of the slide and failure to keep up that we saw during the late Carr era. Those were more proven coaches at that time though.
What's missing is the fundamental vision of a cohesive strategy on offense. If you're going to have a smash identity you have to have an elite OL plus TEs who thrive at blocking. Core plays you can run and then (Mgoblog's long held stance) complementary plays that punish teams for cheating on your core stuff. None of it is present and there is no one to blame for it other than Moore of Campbell.
I think it's a lock that Moore will be back. I hope it works. I don't expect it will.
I think Campbell is gone in December. I do think he has some talent but he just is in over his head. Maybe he'd be a good pass game coordinator type at this point, or maybe he needs to be an OC at a lower level. He does call cool plays pretty frequently. But Michigan needs somebody who understands the big picture and can build a vision and identity that fits with what Moore wants.
Moore, Campbell, Newsome, and Bellomy can all get blame because they were all here last year and returned. Alford hasn't helped either -- he's the run game coordinator and the run game is not working with him.
Delete@thunder 13 Nov at o941
Delete"Only one QB plays at any given time (except for GADGET plays or whatever)"
*fixed it for ya 😉
@FT, LyinLank plays both sides. Sure, QB was priority 1 for the portal, but at the same time he insisted projecting 4-5 losses was "loser thinking" ... 4-5 sounds pretty good right about now
@jelly
DeleteStill obsessed about Lank's "loser thinking" quote. Got a link for that one so I can remember what has you so worked up? #tooeasy?
Yes - QB portal need was my stance and is my stance and nothing has changed. And Yes - your thinking is a loser's thinking and nothing has changed.
Let me know the flaw in my logic LOL
Must have hurt your feelings. Sorry lil guy.
DeleteAll you have to do is bet me, and I'll have the link ... and quotes
Delete$1ooo donation to TTB. Bet me BOY
First pay me the $3K you owe me.
Delete#fantasy
what $3k? Last time I asked when I have ever lost a bet here, you dodged ... you're doing it now too ... anything to get off topic
Delete#lyinLank
Take the bet BOY!
What bet? The one you are fantasizing about?
DeleteSince you don't have a monopoly lil fella.....pay up!
Didn't happen? PROVE IT!
Meanwhile, where's the loser thinking quote? I'd love to doubt down on that one LOL
Delete"I said either of our 2o22 QBs would get us 4 or 5 losses; you claimed that was loser thinking"
DeleteSounds right. Where's the actual quote? Got a link?
What's the bet you want so bad for Lank to take?
" have been arguing against the claim Orji wasn't trusted to pass ever since"
Sounds right. Orji has 3 starts and 44 pass attempts on the season. What's the bet you want so bad for Lank to take?
It's funny to watch you talk yourself into loops with your personal fantasies.
3 posts, still dodging ... You'll get the link when you take the bet Lank
DeleteDon't be scared Lank, bet me!
See LankNovember 18, 2024 at 4:15 PM
DeleteDodge. Nobody knows what bet you're fantasizing about.
Yes you do:
Delete29 Oct at 8:39AM
http://touchthebanner.blogspot.com/2024/10/illinois-21-michigan-7.html
or
13 Oct at 3:21PM
http://touchthebanner.blogspot.com/2024/10/washington-27-michigan-17.html
plenty of reminders since, pissing off Thunder as you dodge & make up excuses. Last chance, otherwise I move on as the victor
#betMe
My evaluation of Moore this season:
ReplyDelete1) Player evaluation = F. I know Moore was not given the full portal cycle to work with. But he did come up with a number of transfer portal, strangely most came on the defensive side of the ball. I think he was overconfident in thinking that his coaching would be able to lift the below average players up.
2) Coaching hires = C. Tell me which coaching hire he has made this season that was deemed a “good” hire. At least, this is still somewhat understandable, given that Moore is a young head coach and needs to build his coaching network.
3) Game Plan = F. Whatever Moore cooked up in Spring is not even remotely working. Game day adjustment has also been poor.
4) Recruiting = B+. Early days but at least recruiting is on an uptrend.
Besides recruiting (to be honest, too soon to tell), what else has Moore been competent in?
I would give Moore one more year. If the coaching miscues continue, I think it is time to thank Moore for his contribution to Michigan and part ways.
2. Regarding coaching hires, I think Steve Casula (tight ends), Lou Esposito (defensive line), and Tony Alford (running backs) have been solid hires. I probably wouldn't have said Alford at the beginning of the year, but I actually think Donovan Edwards has improved some this season. He still does frustrating things at times (3rd-and-1 against Illinois still pisses me off), but he's better than he was.
DeleteI've got some notes on the game, but one observation was Edwards. Not much has improved (I don't think the OL has as much as fans say), but Edwards pass pro has gone from hair-pulling bad to really good
DeleteYeah, the pass protection has improved, I think he's running a little tougher, and I've seen him step through some tackles that I don't think he's really done much of in his first three years on campus. I think he's tried to step up as a leader on a struggling team, and I think that's a positive step for him.
DeleteEdwards was more productive in 2022 than in 2024. He probably is incrementally better, because most guys improve with time, but crediting Alford is HIGHLY dubious. He has fumbled twice (which I think are the first 2 fumbles of his career?) and he isn't making plays in the pass game. And if you're a YPC guy his YPC is barely any different than last year either (4.5 vs 4.2 YPC) and below his career average. He was also used as a pass blocker without issue pretty often last year.
DeleteEdwards is a good player, he's been a good player since he got here. Maybe he put on weight that has slowed him down, but none of this has anything to do with the RB coach. Fred Jackson has been here the whole time.
Edwards has fumbled 4 times in his career.
DeleteThanks Thunder. Yeah so 2 fumbles in 126 touches this year vs 2 fumbles vs 362 touches the previous 3 seasons. Fumbles are kinda random but ball security usually gets better over careers. Not for Edwards. I don't know if Alford is to blame, but it's not great.
DeleteBall security has been an issue this season - mostly from the QBs, but Edwards hasn't helped.
out of curiosity - where do you pull fumble stats from?
If Alford doesn't help in year four, I'm not sure how he turns a non-fumbler into a fumbler in year four. Running backs coaches either matter or they don't.
DeleteHere are the Edwards stats:
https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/donovan-edwards-3-player-stats?category=rushing&seasonType=reg
Thanks for the link.
DeleteMy argument is that the case for Alford isn't really there. If you're arguing he has an impact on Edwards, the most impactful change is increase in fumble rate, IMO.
I believe RB coaches have limited to negligible impact on RB performance -- but pass pro and ball security are areas they can probably develop. Fred Jackson always emphasized those as coaching points, in his many years, and would call out some guys who looked like talented ball carriers as not being reliable options because they can't be trusted to block or hold onto the ball.
So Alford can turn Edwards into a fumbler but he can't help him with his vision/running through tackles/pass protection? Got it.
DeleteEdwards was at 3.3 or 3.4 yards per carry for most of last year, until his two 40+ touchdowns against Washington game 15.
But you're telling me he was at 4.2 yards/carry last year with a very good offensive line...
...and now he's at 4.5 yards/carry this year behind a poor offensive line...
...and those numbers indicate he hasn't improved at all.
Again...got it.
"I believe RB coaches have limited to negligible impact on RB performance"
DeleteThat's what I said. So no, I don't think Alford turned Edwards into a fumbler.
I don't think he helped with his vision either.
I don't think 4.5 YPC vs 4.2 YPC is a big indicator of improvement either. Especially for a guy who averaged 6 YPC when he was a starter before.
I don't think Alford has done anything notable for Edwards.
You seem to think he has but I can flip back your logic right back to you (hot potato) -->
So Alford can turn Edwards into a RB with good vision but he can't do anything to help Edwards fumbling 3 times as often as the rest of his career? Got it.
If only facepalm emojis were available here...
DeleteI didn't say Alford couldn't have contributed to the fumbling. I said *IF* Alford can't help Edwards, *THEN* Alford can't be blamed for hurting him. We can't just say "Well, Edwards fumbles more in 2024 than he used to so that must be Alford's fault, but Edwards is running tougher and pass protecting better, so that must have nothing to do with coaching."
Running back coaches either matter or they don't. Pick one and stick with it.
Actually not everything is all or nothing but I can't spell it out more clearly than this --
DeleteI don't think Alford has done anything notable for Edwards.
You think he has.
I am Not blaming him for fumbles. I'm saying IF you are crediting him with good changes them you blame him for bad changes. You choose selectively what counts and what doesn't and then ascribe that to me.
I didn't even agree with your premise of improvements let alone your argument of selective crediting.
This is the worst season of Edwards career, imo, and the fumbles are the biggest reason why. Maybe it's Alford, maybe it's the weight gain, but I doubt those things matter, personally.
2023 through 10 games with a good OL: 84 carries, 284 yards, 3.38 yards/carry, 3 TD
Delete2024 through 10 games with a bad OL: 114 carries, 513 yards, 4.50 yards/carry, 3 TD
If you think this year is worse than last year, that says more about you than about Edwards.
If you think last year was finished after 10 games, I've got a very pleasant surprise for you.
DeleteOh, so he gets 15 games last year but only 10 this year for the comparison? That's pretty convenient, considering his numbers were really ugly until game 15...
DeleteWell...yeah. Last year had 15 games and this year has had 10. That's the info we have.
DeleteIf we're comparing seasons we're comparing seasons. Why would you pick 2/3 of the season when you have 3/3 of a season of data? Is the first 10 of the season more important than the last 5? Or is it the other way around?
Is it to cherry pick? Does the answer change if you pick the last 10 rather than the first 10?
It's makes more sense to dismiss the early season struggles than the late season performance. I don't know why you'd dismiss either unless you're trying to selectively pick data to support your narrative.
You're playing feelingsball.
DeleteYards per carry is better in 2024 than 2023.
PFF grades are better in 2024 than 2023.
And this is with a worse OL and a weaker passing game in 2024 than 2023.
Sometimes I think you say stuff just to say stuff.
If you're comparing totals then you can just do the math to divide by games or carries. If you're comparing YPC it's 4.5 vs 4.2. Picking 3.4 is cherry picking because you like the lower number.
DeleteAnyway, we've been through the early season Edwards argument before. Michigan was openly treating the non conference as a glorified practice -- letting multiple tackles take turns starting and trying to introduce outside zone runs. Maybe that was just a bad fit with Edwards, but it wasn't a problem for Michigan -- as I said at the time.
Mgoblog's take after UNLV: "I'm not sure Michigan has the personnel to use outside zone as anything other than a gotcha constraint play."
Mgoblog's take after Rutgers. "This is yet another way Michigan seems to be all the way there with their bread and butter run plays in a way they aren't on zone stretch."
I never saw Edwards lack of production as a backup RB as being problematic or predictive of any issues going forwards. Edwards proved that true in the second half of the season.
And no matter how many times you want to say it was a one-game season by him, the PSU game says otherwise.
And PFF says otherwise. You and I both know PFF loves Blake Corum but here was the comparison in that game:
Corum: 36 snaps, 64 PFF grade, 5.6 YPC
Edwards: 22 snaps, 74 PFF grade, 5.2 YPC
And PFF had Edwards with a better grade than Corum the week before as well.
When Michigan needed Edwards he was there and he thrived. The RB can only do so much, but Edwards was very good in 2023 even if he didn't produce much in the first 8 blowout games and even if his YPC was mediocre.
From Purdue on, Edwards scored good to excellent in PFFs grades. He was playing well. But you were still tabulating his stats in September to argue about how badly he was playing.
This fits a pattern of you weighing meaningless garbage time stuff the same way you weigh the stuff that matters.
Now you're doing the same thing over a year later. Focusing on the least important games of the year and ignoring the most important ones.
It's dishonest and it undermines your narrative and your credibility to keep doing this kind of thing.
If you don't believe me look up the PFF grades by game. Edwards was good in 2023. He didn't fumble once!
So he was better in 2023 than 2024, but you're cherry-picking games to prove your point about 2023...
DeleteI'm not using the 3.4 number. I'm saying 4.5 (2024) is greater than 4.2 (2023). The yards per carry are better in 2024, even with a weaker cast around him.
It's okay, Lank. You can cherry-pick small chunks of data to support your point while I look at the whole body of work. Have fun.
@Lank 13 Nov at 9:52
DeleteSeems like you're saying that because dude hasn't had much BOOM this year?
#tooeasy
@LynLank 14 Nov 3:55
You literally referred to some of Edwards 2o23 games as "dud games" ... not even you believe you
By the way, the 2023 PSU game was the definition of the boom-bust narrative for Edwards. I honestly can't believe you're trying to use that as some sort of reasoning for why Edwards had any consistent success.
DeleteHe had 10 carries for 52 yards. One of those carries was a 22-yard touchdown (BOOM!). The other 9 carries went for 30 yards, or 3.3 yards/carry (BUST).
Anytime you try to make a point, you trip over the other points you've been clinging to for dear life.
LyinLank has had a bad Fall ... concessions, backtracking, bothsideism & self owns!
Delete@Thunder
Delete" the 2023 PSU game was the definition of the boom-bust narrative for Edwards."
You mean the thing you said wasn't definable?
Anytime you try to make a point, you trip over the other points you've been clinging to for dear life.
Would you say the 2023 PSU game was more or less boom bust than Kalel Mullings running for 159 yards on 17 carries. But take away his 2 explosive plays (BOOM) and he only had 53 yards on 15 carries, or 3.5 YPC (BUST)
So is Mullings a boom bust back or not? Well, you won't say of course. It's nuance. AKA - you won't define it because it's 100% your opinion.
------------------------------------------------------
I've been clear in my view about YPC -- it is not as meaningful as you think. I bring it up because YOU believe in it. YOU find it relevant.
The catch is you don't believe in it, you just believe in it when it backs up your opinions and you'll ignore it when it doesn't.
I don't think 4.5 YPC vs 4.2 YPC is relevant. Sorry! You do.
Here's some more YPC comparisons:
First 5 games of this season:
Mullings: 7.0 YPC
Edwards: 4.4 YPC
Last 5 games of this season:
Mullings: 3.1 YPC
Edwards: 4.6 YPC
You can bet your A$$ that if the production was reversed you'd be talking about Edwards as a boom/bust back and arguing about how we need the steady production of Mullings.
I think Mullings was just as awesome of a player against Indiana (and the last 5 games) as he was against USC (and the first 5 games), but the results were different because of context, play calls, defense response, block execution, etc. YPC is misleading in this case (and most cases) and not indicative of player performance. Mullings didn't become a worse player, even though his YPC plummeted in half. Just like Edwards didn't become a worse player in the offseason after 2022.
You of course agree that Mullings is awesome, and you will ignore YPC comparisons like the above. But if it suits your argument you will say LOOK AT THE FACTS!
That's the difference.
@je93November 14, 2024 at 11:24 PM
DeleteAre you actually THIS bad at this? That's rhetorical.
@Lank 13 Nov at 9:52
"Seems like you're saying that because dude hasn't had much BOOM this year?"
Seems like I've been arguing against the boom/bust narrative for a few years now doesn't it?
You waived the white flag of "nuance" on that one. So I won't rehash.
"@LynLank 14 Nov 3:55
You literally referred to some of Edwards 2o23 games as "dud games" ... not even you believe you"
Seems like I always said he didn't produce early in 2023, or as you like to call it 2o2tHrEe, and those dud performances were not indicative of his play being any worse than he did in 2022. Production vs performance was nuance you couldn't handle. Anyway, I'm consistent here too - as I predicted improved performance and production the rest of the season....exactly what happened.
What I did NOT expect is for the 2024 version of Edwards to have a career worst season as a receiver and to fumble twice. Very bad! Moreover, he has again had relatively few explosives, despite increasing his success rate (from 30 to 38%) and YPC (incrementally) relative to 2023. Stepping into a starting role, I did not expect a season high carry of 41 yards (the lowest high of any of his 4 seasons). Thunder is right that you can blame the QB and OL taking a step back for that -- but the fumbles are on him, and 2 is too many for a guy with 114 carries.
Clarification -- I predicted Edwards would improve his production later in 2023. I did not predict he would improve his performance. I said, despite the production being a dud, his performance was not a problem, it was contextual and/or random, not anything to worry about. And I was right -- Edwards was very productive in the back half of the year. Enough so to make his entire season a tremendous success.
DeleteAs previously outlined he had one of the better seasons of a backup RB in Michigan history in 2023. Not as good as Corum's 2021, but still very good to get 750 yards as a season-long backup (not a part time starter, injury replacement, etc, like Edwards was in 2022, but a TRUE season-long backup). Even with an unimpressive September, Edwards had a great year for a backup which is exactly what he was expected to be with Corum healthy.
@LIAR 15 Nov 2:32PM
Delete"Would you say the 2023 PSU game was more or less boom bust than Kalel Mullings running for 159 yards on 17 carries. But take away his 2 explosive plays (BOOM) and he only had 53 yards on 15 carries, or 3.5 YPC (BUST)"
It's almost like this was covered already ... Multiple TDs. Multiple (key) 1st Downs ... Dozens of broken tackles ... Mullings shorter runs got us what we needed, and MATTERED against usc ... Edwards gets pulled in most those carries, as has been the case during his career. YPC doesn't show that, but knowing the game does (nuance)
@LIAR 15 Nov 2:45PM
"You waived the white flag of "nuance" on that one. So I won't rehash"
I won that debate. You gave up
"Seems like I always said he didn't produce early in 2023, or as you like to call it 2o2tHrEe, and those dud performances were not indicative of his play being any worse than he did in 2022"
Lyin MF ... no links, no quotes. Your backpedaling does not undo your reputation ... just more lies
Grabbag of fantasies from the obsessed with boys.
DeleteTackle breaking down't matter if you're talking about Deveon Smith, Michael Shaw, or Ty Isaac, but it does this time.
Almost like the criteria just changes on a whim depending on what suits the hot take.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
@ Lank 5:38 p.m.
DeleteYeesh...again, you try to boil down an entire position to ONE thing that's kind of irrelevant to the big picture. This is a consistent issue.
If a guy gets you 8 yards/carry, I don't really care if he gets it by running real fast, by juking people out of their shoes, or by running over people (breaking tackles). There is no reward for breaking tackles on the scoreboard, but there is for gaining yards, because gaining yards leads to time of possession, touchdowns, field goals, etc.
If a guy is REALLY good at breaking tackles on the way to gaining 3 yards/carry, then he's probably not getting you a lot of points, first downs, etc.
De'Veon Smith can be good at breaking tackles all he wants, but if it's not moving the chains or scoring points, it doesn't matter.
I bet Maurice Hurst, Jr. could have been great at breaking tackles, but by the time the cavalry arrived, he would have only gone 1 or 2 yards downfield.
The key to finding a good running back is finding someone who has a mix of skills, someone who can break an occasional big play, who can hit the holes necessary, who doesn't fumble the ball, who pass blocks well, who breaks some tackles, etc.
We're not talking about Deveon, Shaw or Issac ... stay on topic
DeleteDodging is all you have left
#n0tbUilTf0rthIs
#outsmarted
#jeDub
"again, you try to boil down an entire position to ONE thing that's kind of irrelevant to the big picture"
DeleteLOL. This ironic coming from the YPC-advocate.
You continue to credit "getting points" or "getting yards" to one of the 11 guys. But the RB has very limited influence on this. As we saw with Toussaint's drop off each season and as we've seen with Mullings drop off in the last 5 games.
"The key to finding a good running back is finding someone who has a mix of skills, someone who can break an occasional big play, who can hit the holes necessary, who doesn't fumble the ball, who pass blocks well, who breaks some tackles, etc."
Though you forgot to mention catching the ball, a critical element of offenses -- Yes exactly the point! This is Deveon Smith. It's also the foundation of all of those arguments about RBs we've had over the years. A complete back who does multiple things, over a guy who just puts up an impressive YPC on the strength of a limited number of long runs. This has been my argument dude, for a decade plus.
You've advocated for the YPC guys historically, you've put a lot of weight in your assessments of RBs on the basis of YPC, you've NOT emphasized these other things.
So good to grow I guess...
@ Lank 9:53 a.m.
DeleteThe point went over your head again.
Maybe because Deveon Smith was a very good college RB who went on to play in the NFL and other pro leagues. If you valued big play ability and open speed over other attributes like tackle breaking you might not have appreciated that.
DeleteOr maybe it was something different. Oh well.
I appreciate Thunder's call for patience on Moore. Everyone wanted to put Wink on their pitchforks and toss him into the pyre back in September, and I think it's pretty evident that Wink has improved as the season has gone on (albeit not to a McDonald/Minter level we have come to expect). Moreover, everyone wanted to fire Harbaugh back in 2020 (OK, more like 1/3 of people but another third probably would have gone along with it)
ReplyDeleteBut the issues with Moore are comprehensive. Other than how he handles relationships with people in the program (which remains stellar from everything we know), the things he does as a football coach have been bad.
From addressing the roster in the offseason, to depth chart decisions, to strategy, to game theory, to time management. I mean this is a pretty trivial thing but it just adds to the list of many issues -- why did he announce Orji was replacing Warren as a starter. That's a surprise you can unleash on the opposition but instead you tell the world. If everything else was on point this is a thing that gets ignore....but everything else is bad too!
I don't see a redemption coming next year. At all. I don't think Moore has earned the faith that it could come. He's in way too deep, way over his head. There's no fixing this in the next year or even two.