I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I underestimated Michigan again. I really should know better by now when it comes to the Ohio State game, but I just thought the #2 team that was 10-1 going into The Game would be good enough to beat the 6-5 team with no hope of a Big Ten Championship, no hope of a playoff, and a barely achieved realization of bowl eligibility. The 6-5 team was missing its best offensive player (Colston Loveland) and best defensive player (Will Johnson), not to mention a great senior safety (Rod Moore) who sealed a former iteration of The Game with an interception. By the day of the game, it was a 19.5-point spread and the only people picking Michigan were homer TV personalities like Charles Woodson and Desmond Howard.
Hit the jump for more.
We should apologize to Wink Martindale. First-year defensive coordinator Wink Martindale called a masterpiece of a game. He took a lot of heat early in the season for his coverages, blitzes, etc., but he was an NFL veteran who needed some time to adjust to the college game. The pace, the hashes, the rules, the officiating, etc. are all adjustments. Perhaps he could have adjusted a little sooner, but a grace period is necessary. His last few games have been very good, including this fourth-quarter performance:
Pregame analysis: "We’d love to see this one as a fourth-quarter game ... when OSU fans squirm and its coaches pucker." pic.twitter.com/PjEi8ZVQ25
— Chris Balas (@Balas_Wolverine) December 1, 2024
Ohio State had 2 carries for 9 yards and completed 1/5 passes for 1 yard in the fourth quarter. Quarterback Will Howard completed 19/33 passes for 175 yards, 1 touchdown, and 2 interceptions. Star Ohio State running backs TreVeyon Henderson and Quinshon Judkins combined for 22 carries, 67 yards, and 0 scores. All-world freshman receiver Jeremiah Smith had 5 catches for 35 yards and the lone OSU touchdown. Michigan trusted the defensive line to dominate Ohio State's offensive front, leaving light boxes to defend the run so the linebackers and defensive backs could focus on coverage. It was outstanding execution all around.
Kalel Mullings is a legend. I'm not sure how many running backs have produced better than Kalel Mullings behind a worse offensive line at Michigan. Mullings had 185 carries for 948 yards and 12 touchdowns during the regular season, despite the team lacking any kind of deep receiving threat or quarterback run game. Whenever Mullings got the ball this season, it was basically up to him and fullback Max Bredeson to make something happen. In this one Mullings had 32 carries for 116 yards and 1 touchdown. The biggest play was a 3rd-and-3 near midfield when Mullings got hit in the backfield, stumbled sideways, and then broke into space for a 27-yard gain, converting a first down and helping the team score the game-winning field goal. It was somewhat reminiscent of when he put the team on his back against USC to eke out a victory in the fourth quarter. Considering that run helped seal perhaps the biggest upset for Michigan in the series, it will be remembered for a long time as one of the great plays for the Wolverines, even if it didn't result in a touchdown.
I hope the "Fire Sherrone Moore" crowd has been quieted. I thought it was silly all along to say Moore should be fired when he didn't even have a full off-season at the helm yet. And this win doesn't erase all the misjudgments from earlier this year - the quarterback juggling, the clock management, the offensive line playing time decisions, etc. But it does suggest that Moore "gets it" and has a little something to him. Everything was stacked against him in this game, and he pulled off a huge upset.
All hail Dominic Zvada. Zvada hit his seventh 50+ yard field goal of the season and two field goals total, including the game-winner from extra point territory. How he isn't a Lou Groza Award finalist is beyond me. Michigan has had some good kickers - Jay Feely, Jake Moody, Quinn Nordin, Remy Hamilton, etc. - but Zvada is the best I've seen in a Michigan uniform.
Davis Warren is also a legend, by the way. Any quarterback who beats Ohio State earns a special place in our hearts - though Cade McNamara transferring to Iowa and talking crap about Michigan doused that flame a little bit - but Warren managed this team to a win against the Buckeyes, in Columbus no less. It was a cool moment to watch him savoring the moment. If we're being honest, none of us expects Warren to be Michigan's starting quarterback in 2025. Whether he's a backup or moves on to another place, he's almost certainly going to be replaced atop the depth chart. So I'm glad he enjoyed it while he could. He completed just 9/16 passes for 62 yards, 0 touchdowns, and 2 interceptions, but he had some key throws, didn't take any sacks, and made a huge 11-yard run. This game wasn't going to be won through the air for Michigan, and indeed it wasn't. But there were some who thought the season was doomed with him at the helm, and obviously that wasn't the case. I thought he made good decisions throughout the game, and even the second interception to Jack Sawyer at the goal line was a good choice - but his mechanics failed him, he threw off his back foot, and he didn't put enough air under the ball to Hogan Hansen, which resulted in allowing Sawyer to sink back and pick it off. Some people are saying Ohio State only lost because they missed a couple field goals, and I say maybe they were lucky to even have a chance at the end of the game, because Hansen should have had a touchdown there and Michigan would have been up 17-10. Coulda, woulda, shoulda.
Flag nonsense. Two things are true about the flag-planting incident at the end of the game:
- Planting a flag at someone else's stadium is petty, disrespectful, and unsportsmanlike.
- Starting a brawl because of a flag is violent and reckless and dumb.
It always seems to be the guy or guys who don't play very much who do these ridiculous end-of-game celebrations. Maybe it's because they have time to think about it while they're on the sideline. In this case it was backup offensive lineman Raheem Anderson II who ran out with the flag and planted it in the turf - not Mason Graham or Aamir Hall or Kalel Mullings or Max Bredeson, but Raheem Anderson. I saw comments on social media like, "If you don't want the other team to plant their flag, win the game." That's bulls***. Just because you win a game doesn't give you freedom to do whatever you want on someone else's field or in their stadium. Regardless, Ohio State's team running out to midfield to start a brawl was both understandable and the worse offense of the two. And then police officers pulled out pepper spray to mace Michigan's players. So . . . one team started a brawl, and the other team got pepper sprayed? Yeah, that makes sense, right? (And before anyone says Well, Texas did it at Michigan Stadium so it's okay . . . no, it's not. Yes, Texas did it and Michigan didn't start a brawl. Texas shouldn't have planted their flag, and Michigan was correct not to start a brawl.) In my opinion, the whole flag-planting trend should result in the offending player or coach being suspended for all or part of the following game. Maybe if players knew that Sherrone Moore would be suspended for the first half of the bowl game, they would think twice about doing something so silly.
Speaking of being dumb . . . Ryan Day. This isn't an Ohio State blog, so I'm not going to spend too much time on this. But the Ryan Day situation is a very peculiar one. He only has 5 losses in the Big Ten since he became head coach in 2019, and 4 of those losses have come against Michigan. He also has won zero national championships up to now, though he still has a chance, since Ohio State is likely to be part of this year's 12-team College Football Playoff. I happen to know a media guy from Columbus, and he says that plans are being made for Day to be replaced. I think it would be hard to fire him if he wins a national championship, but anything short of that is looking scary for his job prospects. I feel like that sounds crazy with his overall record, but he and his players are being paid a ton of money to beat Michigan, and they're not getting that job done. The NIL number being tossed around has been $20 million for this year's roster, and I think the coaching staff altogether is making $22 million. So that's $42 million on salaries against a team known (up until recently) for not really playing the NIL game very well. Not only did Day make some silly play calls (running twice on 3rd-and-long, not throwing the ball more when OSU clearly had an advantage on the perimeter, etc.), but he also just stood around and watched the brawl after the game. He didn't try to intervene or calm down his players. There's a clip of an OSU staffer walking past, and Day just calmly says "What happened?" Jack Sawyer was screaming at Michigan people, and Day just stood there and watched. After the game, Day admitted he didn't know what to do next since they planned to beat Michigan and play for the conference championship next week. Not only did Day lose, but he's clearly lost.
What does this mean for Michigan? It's a great way to move toward bowl season and the off-season. Michigan has some recruiting momentum, and they have reason for optimism for guys who could potentially return. Do you want to beat Ohio State again? Yes? Okay, let's run it back. Even though Michigan had a questionable quarterback - the most important position on the field - the team won 7 games and beat its two most important rivals, Michigan State and Ohio State. It also means Ohio State hasn't beaten the Wolverines since 2019. There are basically zero players left in college who know what it's like for Ohio State to be Michigan. High school players are going to forget what it looked like when Ohio State dominated the rivalry. Oh, and it might mean that Ohio State will have a changing of the guard with coaching changes and personnel changes, perhaps opening up opportunities for Michigan to make even more progress.
Ha! No apologies needed. Michigan is in Ryan Day's head and that's not an easy thing to account for.
ReplyDeleteDefense was great and DL was the biggest reason for that. I thought Hausman stood out as playing his best game of the season and flying around on outside runs in particular. Paige also stepped up when it counted most.
Kind of interesting that in this 4 year run against OSU we've held up 4 different running backs as heros. Haskins, Edwards, Corum, Mullings each have taken a turn rotating through the spotlight. Will be interesting if any of them prove themselves as quality players at the next level or if they're replaceable cogs, more guys in the right place (Michigan) at the right time (playing OSU).
I'd love to credit Moore and say he earned some faith after this one but I have to put this loss on OSU in a way that the previous 3 losses could not be. They choked. Play calling is on Chip Kelly, not Day. The game may have passed Kelly by at this point. I hope OSU promotes him to HC when they let Day go LOL.
Happy for Davis "Warren Davis" Warren but the Cade McNamara comparison is apt - Michigan won despite him. The difference is that Warren seems to be a great teammate and his "legacy" will be positive even if he finishes his career at another school. Michigan's best drive of the game was the one where they didn't let him do anything besides hand off. If the defense gives up a TD on that last drive, the 2 second half INTs he threw cost us the game and Warren sits alongside O'Korn as being the biggest reason they lose. But they won thankfully. Warren played badly and got bailed out. I would have traded O'Korn for him in a heartbeat.
I don't think it's as simple as just "four different RBs held up as heros"
Delete- in 21 it's our entire Defense, but Hutch & O-Ja-Bo specifically, and our entire Joe Moore OL. Haskins did get praise, but FIVE tuddies is worthy of such, especially when our guy was litrally hurdling guys. To the best of my knowledge, no MICHIGAN back has done that so regularly before or since
- 22 was our Defense, specifically Saint's PBU, JJ, CoJo, young Loveland, and our entire Joe Moore OL. Edwards had what could be argued a BOOM-BUST day, but between Gus Johnson's call and TWO touchdown runs over 7o yards, why wouldn't he be praised? That's a significant accomplishment and, one not many could have done on in his stead (maybe Corum gets one, but the other two get caught)
- 23 is basically everyone ... Corum specifically for the SIX-FIVE move, and that Edwards didn't do much
Mullings praise is because he had a crap QB, no go to at WR, the best TE in MICHIGAN history injured, a not good OL (especially the right side he ran to) and .... Edwards didn't do much
Nuance. RB matters!
Each player is different and each situation is different but the outcome is the same -- Michigan wins by leaning into the rushing attack with the RB getting a ton of credit. Outsized credit IMO. Haskins TDs, Edwards Yardage, Corum Cut, Mullings Toughness -- style points, details, nuance on the overarching story.
DeleteAll is well when you win.
I did not watch or listen to the game, as is my practice. At 2:00pm this time (4:00pm ET), I checked the scores and was shocked to see a 13-10 final, with Michigan on top. Shocked. Pleasantly so, but still ... shocked.
ReplyDeleteFlag thing -- agree that the planting of the flag thing was foolish. I'm going to guess we won't see that sort of thing in the future. In the post-game press conference, Sherrone Moore did not seem pleased with it. Ohio State's response to it was, I think, a reflection of their frustration and their culture. To your point about Ryan Day, not only is he lost, his team knows he's lost. That's not a good recipe.
Coach Moore -- this off-season could not be more important for Sherrone Moore. Yes, the win over OSU is a great way to validate at least some of his efforts. But next year the expectations will be for tighter, more coherent play. They may lose some games, but they'd better not stumble through games such as they did against Illinois and Indiana.
Ryan Day ... I think at this point he'd welcome leaving Ohio State's HC role, just like Urban Meyer seemed to want to step away from Florida. At some point it's not worth the drain on one's health, physical and mental.
ReplyDeleteEven in hindsight, it's difficult to understand how Michigan won, especially since they didn't win the turnover game - I would have thought that would be required. Again, this DLine was absolutely fantastic and carried this team home. And everyone else played together and just well enough to get the win. Amaizing! (yes I know) Great to see that Moore can pull them together when so many things went against them (including losing many of your best players).
ReplyDeleteThe difference was special teams. 6 points on FGs that they missed vs Zvada nailing his from 50+. We won a good bit of yardage in the punt game too.
DeleteYes, special teams put us over the edge but let's be honest - these are not two evenly matched teams so it was amazing to even play OSU to a standoff at their place with several star players out. Very few thought special terms would play a key role because very few (including me) expected it to even be close.
DeleteAbsolutely amazing. No doubt about it.
DeleteI will note that the outcomes of the turnovers were quite different. Consider the each team had an INT thrown both deep in their own territory and in the red zone on the verge of scoring. Similar situations, but in both instances Michigan was better off in outcomes, substantially.
When Howard got intercepted by Hall deep in OSU territory, we got our only TD from the 2 yard line. About as close to a defensive TD as you can get without it being so. When Warren threw his first INT OSU got the ball inside the 20 as well, but got zero points out of it, because of the missed FG.
Then on the other end of the field, Warren's brutal INT on the goaline still resulted in OSU's offense having a very long field. When they punted Michigan got the ball at the 40 and had the game-winning FG drive on a short field. Michigan scored anyway, eventually. Felt bad -- but because of the quick stop and subsequent drive, it worked out fine for Michigan. Not so much for OSU.
On the flag planting controversy.
ReplyDeleteMichigan planted the flag in 2022 also. There was no issue. Other teams have done it to Michigan (not just Texas). There was no issue.
Derrick Moore was waving a flag around the field too. Devin Brown ripped it away. Bench guys do tend to be more involved in this stuff, probably because the starters left it all out on the field LOL. But in this case there were guys like Moore and Sawyer prominently involved in the post-game drama.
OSU side got maced as well as Michigan's. The cops were equal opportunity LOL.
Either flag planting is OK or it isn't. If it's not OK go ahead and make some rule, but teams/people are going to find a way to talk trash and be disrespectful after a big road win no matter what rules you pass. I personally thought the Michigan players spelling out O H I O was more disrespectful than the flags. But that doesn't matter -- people are going to find a way to get upset and feel disrespected when they get their assess kicked too. To me, Kalel got it right -- they need to learn how to lose. Take it like a man, move on, turn that pain into fuel ,and do better next time.
Kalel Mullings left out an important part: also learn how to be humble and gracious in victory. Or to put it another way, act like you've been there before.
DeleteI mean that's reasonable but I thing you're also entitled to celebrate. The rivalry is fierce and if you think OSU isn't going to celebrate when they eventually win, you are kidding yourself. Michigan planted the flag in 2024 just like they planted in 2022 so I'd say they did act like they've been there before LOL.
DeleteKalel is a class act. I didn't see anything out of bounds by our guys, personally.
The shame of the whole episode was that prior to the flag coming out, the Michigan players and the Ohio State players were at mid-field, milling around with each other and talking, shaking hands, and being otherwise fine young men. My issue with the flag-planting is that it was an "in your face" gesture right there at mid-field while quite a few Ohio State players were there.
DeleteRun around with the M flag among the Michigan players and fans? Fine. Run into the middle of the Ohio State players with it? That's deliberately provocative and not demonstrating the maturity young men of that age should have.
In no way am I saying that Ohio State's response was justified.
As I said above, the tone and tenor of Sherrone Moore, when asked about it in the post-game press conference, spoke volumes. "It was addressed in the locker room." He's not having that sort of thing again.
One of the wonderful things about the Michigan / Ohio State rivalry is that, for the most part, the two teams have regard for one another. They fight with everything on the field, and when the whistle blows they pay proper respect and set their eyes on next year. Pretty much everyone acknowledges it as the greatest rivalry in the college game. To have that game called "The Game" says it all.
DeleteThere's a video of Donovan Edwards, TreVeyon Henderson, and two other OSU players on their knees in a prayer circle after the mid-field altercation. It was a beautiful thing to see. In an interview afterwards, TreVeyon complimented Michigan on being a good team, with a great defense, and having very good players. It was a beautiful thing to see.
Last year, when Zach Zinter went down with that horrible leg injury and the play on the field stopped for a period of time, a good portion of the Ohio State bench was on the sideline, on one knee, looking over with concern on their faces. It was a beautiful thing to see.
THAT is what is special about the college game and this game in particular -- two teams full of great players giving their all, and then respecting and regarding each other afterwards, with maturity and graciousness. To the extent Sherrone Moore promotes that kind of character, then I applaud him.
@Anon 6:49PM, I don't recall the flag being waved "in the face of ohio," or in the middle of their players ... they were off to the side singing CarmenOhio, while we were celebrating mid field. They saw the flags come out, knew what was happening, and charged
DeleteI'm with Thunder (and you) in that it's not needed, but our part in this mess isn't nearly as bad as buckeye fans are making it out to be
Not all the OSU players were over to the side; a portion were at mid-field.
DeleteI'm pretty sure it was the guys who sprinted back to the 5o that got into the fight
DeleteI agree, but it doesn't change the fact that the Michigan player ran into and around a group that included Ohio State players. It was an unnecessary, provocative act. It was, as Sherrone Moore said in the post-game press conference, "emotions," and Moore was clear he disapproved.
DeleteFurther to the point: there should have been no boastfulness by the Michigan players AT ALL after this game. Yes, they won, but as others pointed out, it was really more than Ohio State handed the game away.
No boasting? In a college football rivalry game? In THE GAME at The Shoe?
DeleteI give up
Go talk to Sherrone Moore ... he'd agree with me.
DeleteTo be clear, I don't hold this against him, but Moore was reported to be yelling "WE OWN YOU" and waving goodbye at the fans. So let's not pretend he is above celebrating in a way that can be construed as disrespectful.
Delete"Was reported" ... I would need more evidence than that.
DeleteHe's an emotional guy, but that doesn't sound like him. Not least of which is that's an incredibly foolish thing to say to your main rival. It's pure hubris, and will come back to bite. Ohio State will notch a win in this rivalry, and it's not impossible they'll run off four against us.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2024/11/30/sherrone-moore-waves-goodbye-ohio-state-osu-football-fans-michigan-wolverines-win/76679449007/
DeleteSemaj talked trash after the 2023 game that was far more intense and personally than anything that happened saturday. It did not in fact come back to bite us.
DeleteTrash talk is part of the game and worse things are said and done during the game than anything you saw after it.
OSU players got emotional and that's all there is to it, IMO. They choked so I get it. To the winner go the spoils, and yeah OSU is going to win one of these years, maybe even next year, but I guarantee you when they do they will celebrate, taunt, and trash talk, just like we did Saturday. Given their frustrations it will probably be much more over the top.
If true -- and I don't hold it true just because the Free Press has a source that says so: the media lies, a lot -- then I'm disappointed in Sherrone Moore.
DeleteThe trash talking is a part of the coarsening of the fabric of society and culture. It's not a good thing, but if you want to celebrate such stuff, then you be you.
video of HC taunting ohio fans: https://x.com/CFBONFOX/status/1862956631241200021
Deleteand let's not forget Moore's "arrow shooting" after Zvada's winning FG" ... besides, this is the second fight of the year, so coach must be failing on that part too
I guess it depends on where we draw the line:
- should Desmond not have struck The Pose?
- should Jimmy not have guaranteed the win?
- should Woody not have gone for 2? Talk about it?
- do Buckeye fans remember tearing down The Banner?
What would the rivalry be without extracurriculars? And, if Gus Johnson & Fox really were against it, why not cut to commercial?
Yes, there's a line, and where that gets drawn is the focus of this discussion. I understand the exuberance of youth, and the joy of victory. I just think it wise to temper it with prudent humility and graciousness. That's a lesson in maturity, and it does a young man good to l
Delete... to learn that.
Delete(I really wish this had an edit function)
Yeah I agree with Anon that humility and grace are preferred, but I'm also not going to clutch my pearls at what is currently the societal norm for athletics -- some celebratory trash talk and emotion is accepted.
DeleteFans and players enjoy it. Where you draw the line is subjective, but I don't think Michigan crossed it on Saturday (except for Hill throwing stuff). I'd rather Sherrone didn't do that stuff, but I bet the players like that he did a little bit, just as we all liked when Harbaugh made his "born on 3rd" commentary a few years back. Now that's disrespect LOL.
exuberance of youth, in a game played by youth
DeleteAgain, I agree that "I" don't see the need for most this stuff, but the young men who play do. So do the media who cover it, and most the fans stayed tuned in to watch
While I disagree with pretending to plant a flag on turf, I only need to look at post game write ups from the Oregon & Texas games, 2o22 Game and many since & in between to find that none of us were bothered enough to even mention it, nor were fans across the nation when it happens elsewhere
Hate to say it but jelly is spot on. So many times this has been zero issue -- suddenly because OSU decides to throw a tantrum after losing we're supposed to call for change on Michigan's side? I don't buy it.
DeleteI am not going to demand Moore get fired but lets not pretend he has shown, in this year, to be completely over his head and directly responsible for multiple loses, poor clock management, terrible player evaluations and poor game management.
ReplyDeleteHe put Mullings as third string "because he didn't practice well"
Mullings single handily won this game and USC.
He ran the OL into the ground.
But, for now, OSU choked that game away and we'll take it.
New coaches are coming.
A good class is coming in
Portal season is here.
So, hopefully the coaching incompetency is behind us because going forward those mistakes will coast us playoff seeding.
I think it's fair to say that the D line decided to win this game and then went out and did it. I am not yet prepared to apologize to Wink Martindale, but I have taken him off of my watch list.
ReplyDeleteI will however apologize to Mason Graham. He is absolutely no Eddie Vanderdoes. He is better than Eddie has ever dreamed of being and is one of the very best I have ever seen play college football. At about 9 into the second quarter two plays after Makari Paige leveled Howard, they run a stretch something on us. I have watched that play over and over. Graham gets doubled while sliding to his left with the blocking. He gets each of those guys pretty much by the throat, one in each hand and holds them up one yard deep into the backfield. That's 600 lbs plus of 4 star, Buckeye O linemen, one in each hand that he just walks back into their own backfield. The play dies as the Rb runs into a wall of his own blockers, cuts back and gets eaten up. When the back cuts back, Graham lets his lads go and they both fall down as he spins to see if there is anyone around left to hit. It was beyond awesome. I'm gonna watch it again when I finish here. If he doesn't stack that play up, two plays later they might knock that field goal through.
Makari Paige!!! One brutal hit, one pass defended and one pick. While mostly playing out of position.
Davis Warren to Peyton O'Leary, two walk-ons connect for a huge pass play. One of the tougher catches you are ever going to see.
Maybe the best graphic of all time was the one of the 9 or so Buckeyes that came back for this game. They were labelled on the graphic as the 0 - 3 club. I couldn't stop giggling like a schoolgirl until shit got tense. Finally, I have no problem with the flag thing. Yes it's disrespectful. I don't care in the least under this specific set of circumstances. Somebody, maybe Balas wrote yesterday that this win shifts the narrative from we cheated them to how much is Ryan Day's buyout. I am very much in favor of this shift. I didn't care for the whining over the Connor Stallions thing, I couldn't be more delighted with this particular bit of disrespect.
Finally, the beat Ohio drill. I stand by my conclusion that it's the thing here. Four years in a row we have been the tougher and more physical football team. The only way as far as I'm concerned to get tough as a football team is to line up and hit. Then hit some more ...
The fun part about being a football fan is that we get to jump to conclusion based on a really small sample size. It is like we get to evaluate a fund manager based on 1 month trading data.
ReplyDeleteWith regards to yesterday's game, the win was at least 75% luck. Repeat the game 10 times, how many times is the Ohio kicker going to miss 2 FG under 40 yards? Repeat the game 10 times, how many times is Warren Davis going to throw 2 INT? My gut says we are more likely to see Warren Davis throw the 2 INT rather than the Ohio kicker missing 2 gimme FGs. Ditto with the Mullings run. If he can do this every single game, the coaches would have put that as part of their game plan every week.
After the last Warren INT, everyone in the stadium knows Michigan is not throwing another ball. It is just runs. Can you win a game that way? Probably not for this team against this year's Ohio team. Mullings broke some tackles as good/great RBs occasionally do but they are not common and not repeatable. Joe Klatt mentioned on the broadcast that Evan Link got lucky in not getting flagged for holding in the Mulling run. The holding penalty is probably called 50% of the time? If it got called in this game, we are counting on Davis to win the game. How confident would any of you be?
For me, Moore is still on the hot seat. This game does not change my perception. It is inexcusable for this team to have a bad Offensive Line, QB and WR when the head coach was the former OC and OL coach. It is inexcusable for the offense to suck this much when the HC is the former OC and OL coach. It does not matter which matrix you look at, we are outside the top 100 in offense. It might be acceptable for Iowa. It is definitely not acceptable at Michigan. I subscribe to the view that football games decided by 1 TD or less is
more down to luck than anything else. Of course Moore has done a fantastic job in even making this a 50/50 proposition. But he still need to be held responsible for the state of the offense. If we are not even top 50 in offense next year, he should be gone.
I certainly didn't have us to win this game, but the really excellent, good news here is that you only have to play it once.
DeleteOn the notion of luck, I endorse it. From the opening kick off, it was an absolutely perfect kind of day for us and not so much for them. I'll take it.
The skies were blue that day my friend. And the wind was cold, hard, and swirling about. It was a day for running the football and a much tougher day for passing it. Thank you, Lord! We deserve this. Remember that Touchdown Jesus thing? Yeah!!!!!
On the notion of Moore or anyone else around here on a hot seat, I can't endorse that. Our coaching transition was an epic cluster doodle. I like to blame Warde for that, but if I choose to be intellectually honest about all of it, I have to acknowledge that Jim Harbaugh is completely unmanageable.
Then our assistant coaches decide for some reason that it's just a really good year for drinking and driving. Was there something in the water in Ann Arbor last winter? Yes, bourbon.
Then, there's a reason our O line went backwards this year. It's the same reason they were on the bench last year. They're not as good as the guys that left. Could they have been better with different coaching? After one season, I don't know. Maybe somebody can evaluate that, but it is my strongly held opinion that the guy who can isn't a civilian.
On the notion of QB. I'm putting this one squarely on Harbaugh. We could easily have/had a better option hanging around here than the ones we have/had.
I was a strong endorser of Alex Orji. I continue to think the guy can play at a high level at the level of college football we play here. I think he has busted out here based on an observation made by somebody, most likely Seth Fisher, that it looked like we spent Orji's off season working on improving his traditional QB skills rather than working on schemes that are appropriate to his very unique set of skills.
I love Davis Warren. God bless Davis Warren!!! But ... I have never thought that he was the guy, or even really a guy, same with Jack Tuttle. We didn't have a guy.
I can't get too exercised over our offense sucking this year and especially the play calling mostly because in my opinion, the instant we decided to do it with Davis or Tuttle, we were toast. I certainly understand guys who thought that those two guys could get it done being disappointed, because they couldn't get it done. I don't think it's on the coaches here beyond the point that they didn't have better guys to play with in the first place.
Our receivers do block well downfield. This is Michigan after all.
On the notion of us being blessed because of OSU coaching mistakes. Yeah baby!!!! That's part of the deal. I think we across the board out coached them this year ... again. Yay for us and Moore.
Moore -- as I mentioned above, the off-season is fundamentally critical for Sherrone Moore. His coaching tenure at Michigan depends on what he does in the next several months. Hyperbole? I don't think so. He was dealt a pretty lousy hand of cards with the transition from Harbaugh, but that reason has an expiration date, and it's rapidly approaching. Next year the team is Moore's, not "affected by Harbaugh," and there has to be signs of improvement at the basic stuff: blocking, tackling, offensive game plan, etc.
Delete@ Anon I agree that Harbaugh did not make life easy for Moore. Having said that Moore (unlike Harbaugh) knew he was likely to stay at Michigan in 2024 either as a OC or as a HC. It is his job (as either an OC or HC) to know that the cupboard was bare at QB, WR and OL. We might not get the top tier transfers but surely we could have gotten the best of G5 players to transfer. At the very least those players would have been good or at least serviceable (Aamir Hall as an example). For example, we could have at least gotten one of the 2Qb who committed to UNLV. I am sure they would have been better than Warren Davis. Sorry but the blame has to lie on Moore.
DeleteHarbaugh handed him an elite defense and Moore was the guy running the offense. I disagree with the premise completely.
DeleteI'm not sure what people really wanted Harbaugh to do differently while he was busy leading us to a national championship. Next year's team will still be loaded up with a lot of Harbaugh recruits, and Moore is lucky that that is the case.
I'm assuming it's my premise that you are rejecting Lanky. So to expand, and you know this full well, our NIL program was not good, and did not get good until panic set in around 5 and 5 and the money canon of legend finally came out for the first time in Michigan history saving our ass in terms of quarterbacking ... next year. We got a nice guard, a couple nice corners and lost a potentially great safety. There wasn't a QB to be had for the dough we were offering. We know this cuz we didn't get one.
DeleteHubris runs thick around this program and has forever, going back to the day when Michigan assistant coaches were among the lowest paid anywhere in the country because St Bo thought that Michigan was a reward in and of itself. We have had promises of NIL for some time now, but it has only just now kicked in. Quarterbacks cost bucks. We haven't had it to spend.
I agree that we had a helluva defense in terms of talent this year along with a disappointing result, and I am letting Wink off the hook for now for a well called game. But damn, how couldn't he see that what was getting beat the most out there through the first 8-9 weeks of the season were his blitzes. I repeat, Damn! Rewatch this game, we mostly stayed with four guys rushing and then covered. I am prepared to repent of this idea if Seth shows me otherwise but until then, that's what my eyeballs are telling me. And we did run some blitzes to be sure, but we got excellent push with our bigs and lots of pressure from our edges, and then got pretty stout coverage from 7. This could/should have been our approach all year long and right there is exactly why I've been mad at Martingale. We should have been an elite scoring defense, which now way double helps your not so great O in all the ways we all know.
Now you may want to say, well Moore should have got after Wink about that. I agree, but we don't know that he didn't for one and two having been a real damn young boss, I can tell you straight out that taking on the old bull even with your name on the place ain't easy and is likely to get sugar coated. Remember the I've been doing this thing for 40 years and other people know nothing comment early? If that indeed happened, shame on Moore but I'm absolutely not firing over it.
That's all I got except. If we're smart enough to leave Moore alone except to feed the program, he'll bring many, many more titles to Michigan. Start messing with this and you are gonna encounter transaction costs the likes of which will set you back years.
I'm rejecting the premise of Harbaugh putting Moore in a bad spot. I'll agree NIL was not good but 2023 roster was absolutely ELITE despite limited NIL. Turnover to 2024 roster was massive of course but that's not really Harbaugh's problem and anyway, the inherited talent was STILL pretty excellent, on the defensive side at least. The gifts from the football gods in particular where...well...gifted to Moore. And he got a premium NFL caliber DC to be the head coach of the defense. It took a while yeah, but Wink did work.
DeleteThe talent level of offense was a big step back but again you can't just put that on Harbaugh when Moore was the OC and he chose to promote Newsome and Campbell to maintain continuity. All while ignoring the portal on offense (but not special teams or defense). It seems they liked what they had enough. That's not on Harbaugh.
I don't really agree that it was impossible to find a better QB than Warren Davis, even in the spring. Moreover the problems we saw during the season were exacerbated by the spin-the-bottle approach to naming a starter. Tuttle was the worst of all 3 and they chose to have him throw the ball 30 times against Illinois coming off a bye -- the most egregious error of the entire season. Nothing at all to do with Harbaugh and 100% on Moore.
Michigan was at it's best this year when they chose to ignore the forward pass except as a constraint and instead pound the ball with the run game 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Whenever they strayed from that they got smacked. That's not on Harbaugh either. Harbaugh showed the recipe in 2021 of what to do when your QB sucks royally. Moore didn't follow his lead, or perhaps he listened too much to Campbell. Either way, it's on him.
But Roanman you could be right on your final paragraph. Transition costs are real and set a program back. I hope Moore can grow into the role and thrive but I saw too many no good horrible decisions in 2024 to feel optimistic about the programs direction, even fresh off the Underwood and OSU victories. I am hoping this offseason changes my mind with a new offensive braintrust and a killer portal class bringing in a fresh layer of high end players and teammates as Harbaugh has done in 2023.
I think Moore bears some responsibility but Harbaugh (a former QB) could have certainly had at least a decent backup QB somewhere on the roster. Looking back, if JJ had been hurt last year, our title hopes likely would have vanished. So yes, we can fault Moore but some of that was possibly beyond his immediate control. Already it appears that the QB situation (with Davis and Underwood) will likely be improved but can be substantially improved with a portal QB.
DeleteJ.J. *was* hurt last year, but not enough to take him off the field ... though based on what I'd read, he *should* have been taken off the field. Word was that in the Maryland game, which came prior to the Ohio State game, J.J. had a hard time walking, running, and throwing. To your point, it was "do or die" last year, so J.J. stayed in and gritted it out, and Edwards/Corum carried the bulk of the work.
DeleteLanky sez, "Michigan was at it's best this year when they chose to ignore the forward pass except as a constraint and instead pound the ball with the run game 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Whenever they strayed from that they got smacked."
DeleteEXACTLY!!!!!
Yes, I think Moore forgot for a minute what Michigan football has become ... again ... and thought that he wanted to be like all the other kids. I've said it so many times, nobody plays like us. We're way different. Let's stay different until they can stop us. I think beyond any doubt, Moore strayed from our true identity. But I can't fire him for that because another guy isn't gonna even have the beginning of an understanding of what we really are.
Getting Biff Poggi back should help. Maybe. I hope.
Run first, run often - it's who we are!
DeleteBut for the 35-45% of plays that are pass, we must be proficient ... bad QB play & no play makers at WR gets you 4-5 losses
@Roanman While it is true that QB cost money, I find it hard to believe that Michigan cannot cough up enough money for the likes of Matthew Sluka ($100k) or Kurtis Rourke (Ohio to Indiana) or Kyle McCord even. With this defense, we do not need a top flight QB to make the playoff. I think the problem this past offseason is that of evaluation, not money or timing.
DeleteWe lost when Moore (or Campbell) forgot who we are. Ohio State lost when Day (or Kelly) forgot who they are.
DeleteBoth WANT to be balanced, but when your QB is a walk-on who can't throw, a running QB who can't throw, or a 24 year old guy bench from Indiana who can't throw....you stop throwing.
And on OSU's end, when your OL is banged up and facing the best DL in the country and you have a pack of NFL WRs against Michigan's up and down secondary....you stop running.
Michigan's best drive of the day was 11 straight runnings plays and Ohio States only TD drive of the game was 10 (of 11) passing plays.
You don't have to pass 35-45% of the time if you suck at it. You don't have to run 35-45% of the time if you suck at it. You WANT to, but if you can't do it, you don't do it.
---------------------------------
Moore is to blame for the lack of good QBs on the 2024 roster, not Harbaugh!
Stop throwing, completely? I agree we passed WAAAY TOO MUCH with Warren & especially Tuttle, but think we did have to try some. I hated Warren on Saturday, but on rewatch there were throws he made that kept us in the game, and ohio on their sideline. With Orji, I think we should have tried more. How much more? Not sure, but at least more than Semaj, Don & Bell these last two months
DeleteThe throws were bad jelly. Even on the completions (none of which were far downfield) the receivers were reaching back against their bodies to catch them. Maybe 1 or 2 guys hit in stride on the day. And we cannot ignore the 2 INTs. There was speculation that Warren settled down and got comfortable half way through his senior year but that proved to not be true against OSU. Those are back-breakers. Warren got bailed out on the one to Sawyer, especially, by his defense.
DeleteYou have to pass some, yes. But not much. We beat USC throwing 12 times. It was 16 against OSU and 18 against Minnesota and 20 against MSU. The less we passed, the better things were.
I am here arguing that 10-15 pass attempts is better for this Michigan team, with these QBs, than 15-25 pass attempts. More than that is flat out stupid. It's a shame that Campbell and company didn't recognize this until the final game winning drive against OSU (which was 11 straight runs) because there were several other examples during the season where Michigan's best drives of the day were all (or almost all) run run run run. I believe their insistence on throwing the ball too often cost us losses against Washington, Illinois, and Indiana.
I don't think it matters if it was Orji or Warren or Tuttle. They should have passed 10-20 times (at most), in EVERY game this year. And giving up completely on throwing deep down field EVER? Also stupid.
I hate complaining about refs but no holding calls has been criminal
ReplyDeleteKendrick Bell's pass was so bad it's no wonder he went straight to the WR room ... still should have been caught #playmakers
Yeah, I meant to mention Bell in order to give Thunder a laugh. That was a pretty lame ball.
DeleteI watched the alleged holding as well as I was able more than a couple times. It's hard to see on the screen as it falls out of your vision as the play goes by. I see our man's hands inside the shoulder pads during the meaningful part of the block.
Not sure what Klatt saw ... when.
I meant no holding against on ohio. Our Makenzie nameplates were sideways, and sometimes over the shoulder pad from jerseys being yanked & pulled
DeleteIt's football, I get it but gimme a call or two!
Mackenzie? WTF? Lmao, no idea what or how that got in there
DeleteGO BLUE!
My three thoughts:
ReplyDelete1) Agree with Thunder’s take on the flag incident, and unlike others disagreed with Mullings, you also have to win with class. Agree with old saying of being humble in victory and proud in defeat
2) I feel bad for Ryan. I think he’s a good coach under tremendous from a rabid fan base. He has said this has been extremely tough on his family. For the sake of his family he should resign and coach at a less pressurized school
3) For life of me cannot understand Chip Kelly playing to our strength on offense. He has 3 great wife receivers with a competent QB and was getting success in first half running the ball but then decides to start running it up the gut
4) As an aside with regards to HC Moore, never understood why he put the inexperienced Newsome in charge of Oline.
I'm at a loss to understand why Chip Kelly was hired in the first place. He had his success at Oregon, then not much since then.
DeleteTo run the ball
DeleteWatch their spring game. It looked like us trying to force Orji to drop back & pass
Day wanted to pound us, and wouldn't give up on that dream at any cost
But to my knowledge Chip Kelly was never a physical, pound-them run game guy. Run first spread option, maybe. But never a Big-10 three-yards kind of coach.
DeleteYes, Chip Kelly ran inside and outside zone schemes which was what he had called on my favorite play of the game. He was never a guy who wanted to run behind pulling linemen and fullbacks.
DeleteI couldn't understand the hire either. It felt like a poorly thought through capitulation on the part of Day. The guy he likely should have called was Urban. He may be scum, but his teams all blocked, tackled and could run it up inside.
And also yes, on je93. That's a pretty apt description of their spring game.
Somebody said that OSU is in a box in that they have a real good football coach whose biggest problem aside from being a really whiny bitch ... ok, ok I added that last part ... is that he has nothing anywhere in his experience to go to in order to counter a team that comes out to bully him. And now of course we are so deep in his head that he's running on third and long yardage late in a home game he has tied. The worst of it is that earlier in the game he got two real nice juicy pass interference calls by throwing the ball.
And now they have a colossal mess. But don't get too cheerful, of any school out there OSU has the will and the ability to shift gears and turn it around. The next guy will be all about us. And will have resources beau coup.
"But don't get too cheerful, of any school out there OSU has the will and the ability to shift gears and turn it around." -- Roanman
DeleteThis is true, which is why I think the strutting and boasting stuff is pure nonsense. Does the Michigan fan base really need to be reminded that between 2004 and 2019, Ohio State beat Michigan 15 out of 16 times?
Part of my pick for M to win was absolute homeristic, wishful thinking ... but that tiny sliver hope came from watching ohio try so hard to run the ball. Their spring game looked like crap. Talk about obsession!
DeleteMy hope was that Day would insist on a manball game plan, but it was just that, hope. I actually thought he'd pull ahead by 1o+ points AND THEN beef up his run stats. What a fxcking idiot
I am grateful for Ryan Day. GO BLUE
I think Chip Kelly has a fair amount of smash mouth football in him. Yes, he had some fast guys at Oregon, but he also had guys like LeGarrette Blount and Zach Charbonnet and Jeremiah Masoli. There was a lot to his run game. I think he pared it down some at Ohio State to match Ryan Day's idea of a pass game.
DeleteIt doesn't have the same intensity as Michigan's run game, but I do think Chip Kelly is capable of doing some physical things with his offense.
Meant 4 comments. Can’t count to 4 I guess
ReplyDeleteGod I should proof read. Meant that Kelly was having success passing the ball in first half.
ReplyDeleteI also find the flag planting distasteful and unnecessary. Like many of the contributors here, I think the game should be fought hard on the field and the players shook hands at the end of it. Mutual respect for the players/coaches on the other team for a hard-fought game.
ReplyDeleteBut I also realize that I am an old fart who still loves to reminisce about the good old days. Remember how the NFL used to fine the likes of Ochocinco for 'showboating'. Showboating celebration = Disrespect/Taunting? Perhaps flag planting is kind of the same thing. In this regard, I agree with Lank. Either ban the flag planting or let people do it without repercussion.
The problem is, the moment you enumerate one banned infraction, you have to consider enumerating other things as well. Exceptions will always be tested.
DeleteThe core of the problem lies not in a list of what is allowed or not allowed, but rather in the character of the players and the team. This is why Sherrone Moore, in his post-game press conference, spoke of how he and his staff make it a point to teach the team about disciple, and in particular the discipline of emotion. It has to be kept in check and properly channeled, otherwise the game can easily get out of control. Moore's point was clear: that discipline extends to after the game as well.
Moore is trying to craft a high-skill, high-effort, high-commitment, high-character culture, and that's a very good thing because otherwise you have teams like Michigan State under Dantonio. I applaud Moore for his intentions; I hope he succeeds.
Was the flag waving and flag planting an egregious violation of high-character protocol? Not egregious, but a bit over the line. It's one of those things that is better not to do. The downstream harm is far greater than the benefit in the moment. The narrative of this game is about this after-game event, and the argument is about Michigan's actions and Ohio State's response. And the whole damn thing could have been avoided had the flag thing been restrained to an appropriate level.
Harumph. I hate the trash-talking, swagger nonsense.
Eisen is as delightfully obnoxious as always on the game, today. You should go find it.
ReplyDeleteExit Coach Campbell
ReplyDelete