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| Derrick Green |
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 227 lbs.
High school: Richmond (VA) Hermitage
Position: Running back
Class: Sophomore
Jersey number: #27
Last year: I ranked Green #16 and said he would be the #2 running back with 100 carries for 500 yards and 6 touchdowns. He started one game and had 83 carries for 270 yards and 2 touchdowns.
It's tough to tell whether Green was overrated or rated accurately for last year. On the one hand, he showed up overweight (~240 lbs.) and out of shape, stumbling to just 3.3 yards/carry. On the other hand, Michigan's failure to run the ball contribute heavily to the disappointing 7-6 record. It's tough to blame that crappy running game on the backs, since they were attempting the impossible: success behind a porous offensive line. And yet Green seemed to take college success lightly by not being in shape. That's a huge reason why freshmen are often untrustworthy, because they have to adjust their diets, workouts, technique, work ethic, intensity level, and mental preparation for college. Some kids get it immediately, and some kids don't. Green didn't.
This year Green seems to be starting to get it a little bit. He has pared himself down to 227 lbs., which is roughly where he was in peak high school condition. Of the available running backs on the roster (not counting transfer Ty Isaac), Green looks to me like the most physically talented back. He has light feet, good acceleration, and pretty good speed for a power back. The thing that has always concerned me about Green is his lack of balance and an inability to stay on his feet when 230-pounders should be able to do so. If Michigan can open holes like Michigan teams of yesteryear could, then Green is the best bet because he can get out in the open field and outrun people. If the line continues to struggle - which it probably will - then I think Green will probably be the #2 option. De'Veon Smith is the most physical back and the most capable of shaking off tackles in the hole, so he would be my choice to start until the line comes around.
Prediction: Backup running back; 120 carries, 500 yards, 5 touchdowns
I still think he's a good candidate to be Kevin Grady 2.0. — Don
ReplyDeletePlease, please tell me Green is not going to be another Grady, 5* recruit who ends up mediocre in college. So far he has no way lived up to the billing but I hope the best is yet to come.
ReplyDeleteOn the brighter side.. I'm doing back flips we beat out Sparty for Brian Cole... Leaders & Best!!
He's just a sophomore. I don't know why we're so quick to label freshmen as busts.
DeleteIs he a bust? Given that we had a historically bad Oline blocking for him last year, in the midst of a poorly conceived offense overall, it's perhaps a bit early to say that. And since the team as a whole only averaged 3.3 ypc, I don't think we can consider him a huge disappointment in that respect.
DeleteThat being said, it also has to be pointed out that he showed no ability to break tackles or make yards on his own last year. A RB who's going to be any good usually shows at least flashes of that, even as a true freshman. We can still hope that the combination of better conditioning and improvement on the Oline will give him the chance to break out, but it's getting frustrating to always have to be making excuses for why highly rated recruits are performing below expectations, and to always have to be crossing our fingers for the future.
There was a before/after thread on MGoBlog that mentioned that he actually came in at 248 pounds last year. The latest roster update has him all the way down to 220.
ReplyDeleteIt's early to call him Grady 2.0, but he lacks vision and falls over if you so much as breathe on him too hard. On his first carry of the spring game, the blockers had actually opened up a nice lane on the left (intended) side of the run, and he chose to cut back right into Jeremy Clark. The guy has to learn to follow is blockers and realize he can't just run people over anymore.
Unlike Smith, Green doesn't seem to have good spatial / 3-D ability. (This is related to balance.) He can cut a little bit, but he's mostly a fast battering ram. As others have noted, he'll need holes to be useful. Once through those holes, he can bash a LB/S.
ReplyDeleteSo the key is getting the holes opened up. Then Green can do what he does.
DeleteIt's really not a cliche, is it? It really does all start up front, in the trenches.
I think he was definitely overrated last year. To your credit, you got the carries just about right. Unfortunately, the yards were about half.
ReplyDeleteI was guessing you'd have Green a lot higher this year, but this is exactly where I think he belongs.
I'm a lot more open-minded about Green than it seems other people are. 83 carries while overweight and running behind the suckiest OL in Michigan history doesn't tell much. I give him the tiniest of edges over Green just because the coaches seemed to favor him last year. Also, I thought he showed some brief glimmers of quick-burst movements that are rare for a guy that size. Smith seemed more powerful and consistent - Green more playmaking upside. But again, hard to draw judgements on last year. I view them as even in terms of importance to the team and they, more or less, bring the same thing.
I really think the biggest differentiator between Smith/Green is who learns to be an effective pass-blocker first.
Also...going to be very interesting if Isaac is ruled eligible which guy gets benched.
agreed, pass pro will be huge factor from RBs as it always should be. there does not appear to be much separation bw those RBs, at least at this point in their careers, so pass pro skills and ability to adapt on the fly may determine who sees most reps.
Deleteive always seen both soph backs as fairly equal and never thought green was the 5 star monster many raved about (but i believe 5 star RB ratings should be reserved for those rare few who might look like closest thing to next adrian peterson or reggie bush - though itll be tough to find another peterson!).
honestly issac looked the best of the 3 in high school so it should be interesting in few yrs when all compete for snaps. but bottom line, the cohesion bw the QB, OL and nussmeier will determine the running games fate more than one RB separating from the pack. itd be outstanding if nussmeier takes full advantage of play clock by getting calls in ASAP allowing QB and OL to very clearly get on the same page before snapping the ball - and if nussmeier wants to check with his QB at the line after glimpsing the D like many other coaches, im all for it - all about cohesion. whatever it takes to get all 11 on the same page as frequently as possible - then maybe well see what green or smith or whoever else can actually do with the rock
Isaac is completely legit and proved himself to be an elite back as a freshman. Green, on the other hand, came in 20~30 pounds overweight and didn't really do much.... I honestly think Green was/is overrated and not committed enough to play high-level CFB. He got into shape this year, okay, but that's what he is supposed to do. We'll obviously give him a chance, but I really think Isaac is the future. Isaac is completely legit.
DeleteProved himself to be elite by getting beaten out by a RB in the same class? or by racking up yards at the end of blowouts?
DeleteHe was the 5th string back!
His stats were nice, but that's a team where their FB ran for 10 ypc....
He racked up 5.9ypc and looked pretty good as a freshman. I understand that he got limited snaps as a back up, but he looked pretty good -- at least a lot better than how our own backs looked. His HS film looked really good, too.
DeleteLike I said - their FB got 10 ypc - is he an elite back too?
DeleteProbably USC's OL has something to do with that YPC. And Michigan's was/is a problem that led to Toussaint's dramatic drop in YPC from 2011 to 2013.
To me, it's more interesting that he was a 5th-string back than that he racked up a huge YPC in garbage time, because so did their other backups.
5th string in no way indicates he is 'legit' or 'elite'. He has potential, he has talent, but his star has dimmed a little bit from when he was a recruit....kinda like Green's.
In retrospect, Green's comments about Michigan being the place he wants to "spend the next 3-4 years" may have been a bit... boastful (and foreboding).
ReplyDeleteAm I the only one that thinks 24/7 has surpassed Rivals for the top recruiting website?
ReplyDeleteNo.
DeleteGood post and lots of good comments. Agree with the others. Would be more excited about Green if he showed more vision and tackle-breaking ability last year. Yes he was a freshman, but UM has had boatloads of RB's look good as freshmen over the years. I think the conditioning stuff is overblown. A good RB out of shape is still a good RB, at least for a few snaps. I'm guessing that Smith will move ahead of Green and become a workhorse. As Magnus points out, Green looks like a guy who could put up major numbers behind a good OL, but then not create much on his own when the blocking is so-so. We'll see though. Really wish Isaac was eligible this year and could throw his hat into the ring.
ReplyDeleteWhat boatloads? Hart and Thomas stood out. Most guys got snaps mostly at the end of blowouts.
DeleteBacks do get better with time and training, but you usually can tell by second year at the latest whether a particular back is up to the challenge. I hope Green is up to the challenge and start delivering. If not, I can see Isaac easily beating him out for the lion's share of snaps.
DeleteQuite a few good freshman RBs at Michigan in past years:
DeleteRicky Powers: 144 carries, 5.2 ypc
Jesse Johnson 107 carries, 5.9 ypc
Tyrone Wheatley 86 carries, 6.4 ypc
Brandon Minor 42 carries, 5.7 ypc
Chris Perry 77 carries, 5.4 ypc
Offensive line obviously made a difference with those guys too but even then, you could see that all of them had something special.
That's in the same ballpark of carries as Green got. The difference is that Green had a crappy OL and didn't get to run up stats against overmatched teams.
DeleteLook at what Perry did against OSU, MSU, Wisconsin for example:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/chris-perry-1/gamelog/2000/
Green couldn't run up stats against overmatched teams. He averaged 3.5 ypc against Indiana and 2.3 ypc against Minnesota. As bad as our line was last year, they played pretty well in those two games and they opened up lots of holes against Indiana.
DeletePoint being -- if you expect bigger things out of Green because he is slimmer or because the offensive line play will be better, than you might be right. If you are expecting him to just get better because he is older and more experienced, I don't see it as likely.
I'm not just talking about stats - RB play just pops out at the viewer. Off the top of my head, guys like Wheatly, Biakabatuka, Powers, Hart, Perry, and to a lesser extent A-Train showed that they had the goods right away as freshmen. It's pretty easy to name UM RB's who showed flashes (pardon the over-used cliche) as freshmen. I think it is much tougher to find UM RB's who did not show something as a freshmen who turned out to be very good players.
DeleteAnd my point is that its hard to pop when you're blocking is epicly horrible.
DeleteI'm not that high on Green, never was, I prefer shorter/faster/shiftier backs than the taller straight-ahead guys this staff likes, but I'm open minded to what he has to offer. He's got talent and he's only had one year.
I don't know that I believe you saw any more from those guys as freshman than you saw from Mike Cox or Mike Shaw or other guys who shuffled in against the Bowling Greens of the world and got 30 yard gains.
Thunder, as usual I have to agree on your assessment of Green. He's clearly powerful running straight ahead, but as soon as someone hit him from the side while running laterally he would just flop over like he had no lower body strength at all. Hopefully Fred and Wellman have helped him address this issue because it's absolutely necessary for his success as a running back.
ReplyDeleteEverybody around here knows by now that I'm cutting linemen, especially offensive linemen, enormous slack for being young and not mature enough, mostly physically, but also intellectually ... in a football way ... to compete against four and five year players. I am significantly less inclined that way at running back, blocking issues aside.
ReplyDeleteWhile I do remember St. Bo going on about how somebody was seeing the cuts better with experience and that's why he was breaking out, I think that a running back either has it or he don't.
If you know Green's history, you know that weight is always gonna be an issue. So I'll cut him a little slack for thinking he made it, relaxing a little and falling off the wagon. And I'm very impressed that he figure it out and fixed it, but ..... he needs to run better ..... period.
Somebody in an interview recently was going on about Tim Biakabutuka against Sparty where he was getting hit in the backfield on play after play and still went for 170 or so. I remember that game and believe it was Timmy B's Senior year, so ok, there's that, but ..... Green needs to run better, period.
I don't even know if I agree that he is good as a straight ahead power back. In the spring game he looked very unimpressive to me still.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing that keeps me from labeling him a massively overrated bust is the weight issue. I am hoping that the extra 20 pounds was the difference last year. O-line issues aside, it was obvious last year that this guy wasn't much of a running back.
Here are my thoughts on Green. I liked him as a recruit because I thought he was physically ready to play although I wasn't convinced he was as good as his ranking. Went down very easy for a big guy and didn't have the ability to make people miss. He reminds me of the A-Train who I thought was serviceable for most of his career but no Hart, Timmy B, Wheatley, etc.
ReplyDeleteI think he can improve but he is the Morris of rb's. His high school ranking didn't translate to the film that I watched. Not a bad player but can make an impact.
i do not see the A-Train comparisons but id love for you to be correct there, trust me. if Green leaves in 3 years after anything resembling Anthony Thomas' career, then UM hit a home run (and Green will have more than lived up to hype). A-Train left UM as its all-time leading rusher and rush TD record holder and i believe still sits #3 just behind Hart and Robinson. Over 4000 yds and 50 TDs is pretty darn good, followed by 5-7 yrs of decent NFL play...ill take that from Green in a heartbeat. But im guessing you were more referencing Thomas' running style, not production? Not breaking tackles and making people miss or lack of Wheatleys special home run ability? If so, ok, bc A-Train still holds plenty UM records and we'd all love Green (or any future back) to emulate his production
DeleteA-Train's case is not straightforward because he ran behind what may be the best OL in UM history (or at least one of the best), and was on an offense with a bunch of weapons. I think you could make the point that a guy like Green would also put up big numbers behind that late' '90's OL. But neither A-Train nor Green are guys who are likely to excel behind mediocre blocking - A-Train because he did not have moves to make people miss, Green because he seems to go down pretty easily. So in the mid-2000's when the blocking was more suspect for example, UM was better off having a guy like Mike Hart who could make something out of nothing, rather than A-Train or Green.
DeleteWhat most people forget or don't know about A-train is that if you were around in that era pretty much everyone complained at how easily he went down. The thing was he had a dominant-loaded-extraordinary-amazing OL that created massive holes from them. What he did was he hit those holes hard and he hit them quickly and his momentum carried him forward nearly every time. You took the good with the bad, because in the end, he was effective. But he had a mediocre NFL career because he wasn't that great of a player. For my money, Biakabatuka, Wheatley, Hart and others were better players.
DeleteThe nice thing about Thomas is that he really developed into a quality blocker and serviceable receiver, which he wasn't when he was a freshman. Chris Perry also made this leap under Fred Jackson.
In response to an above poster who mentioned Isaac. Yes, I agree that Isacc looks much more natural as a running back. He has the vision and feel to work off his blocks. Green looks more like a straight line Bunch/Floyd type of player. Maybe even a Perriman for you older guys like me.
ReplyDeleteI agree with author that Smith is actually a more effective player since he can grind out another 1 yard or so per carry when big holes aren't present consistently. Maybe Smith gets the bulk of carries and then Green comes in and breaks a bigger run. I would be ecastatic if Isaac gets to play.
I guess I dont understand the comparisons with Smith/Green neither guy showed a flash at all. Both missed what little holes were there.
ReplyDeleteGreen would go down easy and Smith would just run into a pile and still go down and lose yards. The RB spot has a load to prove this year from both Sophs and Hayes as well.
Agree that neither showed what I would call "flashes". Green showed nice feet for a big guy but could not make any plays and went down easy. Smith showed a little more vision and power, but did not tear it up. I think Smith wins out though because he seems more capable of making something out of nothing.
DeleteBut they're big! MANBALL
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