Here are the results of the 2024 NFL Draft for Michigan players:
2024
1st round: J.J. McCarthy - QB - Minnesota Vikings (#10 overall)
2nd round: Kris Jenkins, Jr. - DT - Cincinnati Bengals (#49)
2nd round: Mike Sainristil - CB - Washington Commanders (#50)
3rd round: Junior Colson - LB - Los Angeles Chargers (#69)
3rd round: Blake Corum - RB - Los Angeles Rams (#83)
3rd round: Roman Wilson - WR - Pittsburgh Steelers (#84)
3rd round: Zak Zinter - OG - Cleveland Browns (#85)
4th round: A.J. Barner - TE - Seattle Seahawks (#121)
5th round: Trevor Keegan - OG - Philadelphia Eagles (#172)
7th round: Michael Barrett - LB - Carolina Panthers (#240)
7th round: La'Darius Henderson - OG - Houston Texans (#249)
7th round: Jaylen Harrell - DE - Tennessee Titans (#252)
7th round: Cornelius Johnson - WR - Los Angeles Chargers (#253)
Jenkins joins a Michigan-heavy defense with the Bengals, who spent a first round pick on S Daxton Hill a couple years ago and a second round pick on CB D.J. Turner II in 2023.
The Chargers are coached by former Michigan head man Jim Harbaugh, who drafted Colson and Johnson, both of whom play positions of need for the team. The Seahawks are led by Mike Macdonald, whose lone pick from Michigan (A.J. Barner at #121 overall) didn't overlap with Macdonald's one season at defensive coordinator in 2021. Barner transferred from Indiana for the 2023 season. However, former Michigan assistant coach Jay Harbaugh is on Seattle's staff.
The following players signed undrafted free agent contracts with NFL teams:
Karsen Barnhart - OG - Los Angeles Chargers
Trente Jones - OT - Green Bay Packers
Braiden McGregor - DE - New York Jets
Drake Nugent - C - San Francisco 49ers
James Turner - K - Detroit Lions
Josh Wallace - CB - Los Angeles Rams
McGregor is the biggest draft snub of these players, in my opinion. At 6'5" and 257 pounds, I thought he showed adequate enough production and athleticism to get taken somewhere prior to the end of the draft. He was injured as a senior in high school and took a few years just to get back on track. I always thought he should have stayed in college one more year to continue ascending since 2023 was his first year as a starter; perhaps with that previous injury, he thought this might be the best time to try to make a jump for the NFL rather than risking another year in college.
Additionally, three former Wolverine signees were taken in the draft:
1st round: Xavier Worthy - WR - Kansas City Chiefs (#28)
4th round: Erick All - TE - Cincinnati Bengals (#115)
6th round: Joe Milton - QB - New England Patriots (#193)
Worthy signed with Michigan but was unable to enroll, so he transferred to Texas. All played at Michigan for three seasons (2020-2022) before transferring to Iowa in 2023. Milton spent three years in Ann Arbor (2018-2020) and then spent the next three seasons (2021-2023) at Tennessee.
An amazing draft and another good chance to reflect on the Harbaugh era. At least 1/3 of the fanbase wanted him fired a few years and now....look at this!
ReplyDeleteIf you go off performance the biggest snub might have been Wallace. He played a ton of snaps and acquitted himself very well at the highest level. But this is another example where the NFL doesn't care too much about college production, PFF grades, or team accolades. Despite good size Wallace didn't have the athleticism to be a NFL player... Perhaps he'll prove otherwise as a UDFA.
Barnhart and McGregor could have come back but I don't know that another year changes the answer for them. If McGregor isn't over an injury from 4 or 5 years ago I doubt he's getting over it in 6 or 7 either. And even if they do move up into round 6 or 7 that doesn't mean they won't get cut just like an UDFA. The unfortunate thing for a lot of fringe guys is that they probably need to get a little lucky and find a good roster and scheme fit to succeed. The fortunate thing is that they will get A shot.
Jones and Nugent are the two longshot bets I would put money on. But very different reasons -- Jones seemed to be dealing with stuff offield and if he puts that behind him I think he has the talent to be an IOL at the NFL level. I don't think he's an OT. He's far from a sure thing but in the right environment there might be some runway left for his further development. Nugent is a grit mcgritterson type. Just a guy who is ready to be a pro. Makes sense he wasn't drafted but he was an excellent college player and if he finds a fit and maybe gets an injury-opportunity I could see him hang around NFL rosters for a while.
I wish them all the best!
Question 1 -- what do you see Corum being cast as in the NFL? Are they going to see him as a break-away scat-back type runner? Or a beast-mode tackle-breaker type ala Marshawn Lynch?
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2 -- Sainristil has been labeled "too small" to play outside, with him being a nickelback slot coverage guy. So question: do you predict he'll be able to do that at the NFL level with his current build?
Both are *great* character guys, but the NFL is a punishing business, so I'm just wondering about gut-feel here regarding success / longevity.
Answer 1: I don't think the Rams are going to see him as either one. He's not a breakaway threat or elite receiver out of the backfield, such as James Cook or Aaron Jones. But he's capable of catching the ball on screens, swing routes, etc. I also don't think he's going to be a beast-mode tackle-breaker. I think he's a capable two-down back (1st and 2nd down) with some capabilities on 3rd down, but his size as a pass blocker is a limiting factor. He's a tough guy, but standing in there against a 240 lb. blitzing linebacker is a tough task for someone of his stature.
ReplyDeleteAnswer 2: I do not believe Sainristil is capable of playing outside at the NFL level. That was not a strong suit for him in college when he was forced to do it. He even had some struggles doing man coverage in the slot. I think he's more of a zone coverage nickel player. He can still be good at that, and it's important. What's interesting is that Dan Quinn as Cowboys defensive coordinator had Jourdan Lewis as the nickel corner . . . and now Dan Quinn as Washington Commanders head coach has Mike Sainristil as his nickel corner.
FWIW I mostly agree with Thunder's Corum take -- he's not a specialist back one way or the other. I think he's more of a do everything back.
DeleteNote that the guy they have now is also a workhorse do everything back. He led the league in carries per game, while also being a big threat as a receiver, and a well regarded pass blocker. Kyren Williams at 5'10/195 pounds.
Corum is a bit bigger but fits the same mold and should be rotating in freely as a backup RB in a traditional starter/backup rotation where both guys have similar skills. I imagine the Rams hope they both benefit from rotating and can stay healthy as a result.
Blocking is not a concern - Corum is well built and low to the ground and he's a proven pass blocker for Michigan.
Pass receiving is going to be a strength as well. Though I agree he's not an ELITE threat, he's a valuable weapon in the pass game -- his use there has dropped off due in part to Donovan Edwards getting the bulk of receiving opportunities out of the backfield and in part due to being the workhorse ball carrier -- but we saw how good he was in 2021 and he flashed his skills often enough in 2022 and 2023 to think he still had it. It's just that passing isn't a priority in his college offense and Michigan had other options.
It's my belief that they drafted Corum in large part so they could have a rotation of two interchangeable backs. This should, hopefully for them, keep their star RB healthy and offer them a viable replacement if he's not. I would just add that I would not be surprised if the Rams used Corum as their short yardage back simply to limit wear and tear on Williams, but McVey is not Harbaugh so the Rams will also gladly throw in short yardage.
The Thunder/Lightning framing doesn't apply to the Rams IMO.
@ Lank 3:27 p.m.
Delete"As a blocker, sometimes leaves his feet to compensate for lacking size and power."
The above quote comes from Ian Cummings from Pro Football Network. Dane Brugler mentioned the same thing. He's just not a blocker who can stand in there and absorb the punishment from a 240 pound linebacker. He has to use angles, leave his feet, etc. to try to take out the legs of pass rushers. That's fine - he's not the only RB who needs to do that. But there are some 225 or 235 lb. backs who can be a little sturdier in pass pro.
You sound very sure about a player who has yet to suit up in an NFL game and will be changing to a fairly different offensive scheme. It's a developable skill that obviously wasn't emphasized at Michigan like it might be elsewhere.
DeleteThere's not a lot of 225 or 235 pound RB (by my count about 3 out of almost 30 at the combine were this large), but I'm sure you're right that bigger players could be sturdier blockers. Even better would be a 300 lb RB!
I think it's relevant that Williams is known as a very good blocker and is smaller than Corum. If this is the only thing standing in Blake's way to being a successful NFL pro, I feel very good about his chances.
@ Lank 4:21 p.m.
DeleteI swear to Jesus, every time I bring up a thing where respected, national NFL scouts and media people are saying exactly what I'm saying, your response is, "Ah, that's not a thing" and "Your concerns aren't legitimate."
Okay, Lank. You're right. Blocking isn't a concern. Ian Cummings and Dane Brugler and me and all these other guys are all just making up this stuff.
Kyren Williams had a pass blocking grade of 57.7 according to PFF. That places him at #28 out of 59 qualifying backs. Rather than "very good," that looks totally average to me.
No doubt Lank can be combative, not disputing that. But I think he at least has a point here. I am not expecting Corum to be a "plus" blocker but in many years of watching him, he is not pass blocking deficient either. If the knock was "only adequate pass blocking" (which I think was more Thunder's point) I could buy into that but I don't view that at all as a weakness and that should not limit his play unless you have a "plus plus" blocking back on your team you want in for third down plays. Barring injury, I think people are underestimating Corum and he will likely outperform his draft position (although unlikely to be a true star). And on the experts, there are plenty of "experts" saying that JJ has a weak arm and I am sorry but that's just not true.
Delete@ Kurt 10:38 a.m.
DeleteI think part of it is the messaging. I don't know who these "experts" are that are saying J.J. has a weak arm. I haven't seen anybody say that, from NFL GMs to scouts or whoever. I have seen Ohio State fans say that, and obviously they should not be taken seriously.
Have I seen guys say J.J. doesn't have the strongest arm? Sure. Because he doesn't. The guys with elite arm strength are guys like Joe Milton. I think Penix has a stronger arm than McCarthy, too. If we interpret someone saying he doesn't have elite arm strength to saying he has a weak arm...well, I just don't think that's accurate.
Blake Corum isn't the fastest running back around. Does that mean he's slow? No. Very few high-level players are on the extremes; most of them exist in the middle somewhere. And that's okay.
If we interpret someone saying he doesn't have elite size to saying he is a blocking liability...well, I just don't think that's accurate.
Delete@Thunder, I have not seen, heard or read from any "expert" who says JJ has a weak arm. More exaggeration. Yet another lie
DeleteAs usual jelly can't track what is happening and is calling Kurt a liar. Kurt is not lying of course - no one is ever lying when jelly accuses them of lying. --
DeleteSome people did say JJ has a weak arm. Here's one example:
https://draftwire.usatoday.com/lists/2024-nfl-draft-j-j-mccarthy-scouting-report/
Nobody here agrees with this take. That's the point - it's something people said that was wrong. It was a narrative that was substantial enough that people have felt the need to counter argue.
Who is an "expert" and who isn't is up to interpretation. Dane Bugler is a writer so I guess some are going to see him as an expert -- football coaches are not going to do that. Football players are not going to do that. They are going to see him as a media. Some people don't know the difference between a coach, a fan, and a media person. Some people know that role and motivation are intertwined.
Regardless, what information you pass on as "people are saying" is usually something you think is relevant - whether it's an endorsement, disavowal, or purely information depends on how you present it.
Kurt's point about football analysis mirrors my own -- media analysts say many things (because they are paid to get eyeballs) and they are often right but also often wrong. JJ is an elite athlete with elite arm strength (barely below Joe Milton whose arm strength has reached a Paul Bunyan reputation.) so all those takes doubting his physical abilities are wrong, even setting aside that QB is a position where physical ability is not the critical factor. Brugler, to his credit, seems to be a guy branding himself on authentic analysis not on hot takes -- but even legitimate voices at some point run out of things to say and will spend time (especially on podcasts) discussing viewpoints that don't hold much water. The line between sportstalkradio hot air filler content and legitimate content is not a hard one.
Anyway, some people are here to talk football. Some are not.
@ Lank 1:54 p.m.
DeleteOkay, I'm not into calling people liars, but what you said about McCarthy having a "weak arm" according to that article is not accurate:
"There are times in games when McCarthy will hesitate on bigger throws and pull the ball down to find another option and seemed to lack the arm strength to make the bigger throw down the field and outside the hashmarks which may limit his offensive capability."
Again, "not the fastest" does not mean "slow." Blake Corum wasn't the fastest. De'Veon Smith was slow.
"Seemed to lack the arm strength to make the bigger thrown down the field and outside the hash marks" does not mean "weak arm."
You've been trying to make a point for a couple days now, and when asked for evidence, you can't give us any. This is strangely similar to what you accuse others of doing.
It's a well earned reputation
Delete@Thunder
DeleteFirst -- Who has asked me for evidence on JJ's arm strength? This is news to me. Until today I said nothing about JJ's arm strength except "I don't believe JJ's arm is a problem nor do I believe Blake's blocking (or size) are a problem".
Secondly - What, other than a weak arm, would explain "lack the arm strength" for those throws?
Perhaps you are saying he has a strong arm for short throws or between the hashes but a weak arm for long throws outside the hashes. Or perhaps you are aying "lack of arm strength" could be interpreted as average arm strength. I'm genuinely confused how saying somebody lacks arm strength doesn't connect to a weak arm. I don't believe the person writing this was trying to say simply "JJ doesn't have the strongest arm in the draft" nor imply that he had "average arm strength" they were saying he lacks the arm strength to do an essential part of the job.
This is still splitting hairs anyway because the point is the person saying this is wrong either way -- JJ doesn't lack arm strength at all. His arm isn't even average. He has a great arm.
https://www.mlive.com/wolverines/2024/03/how-jj-mccarthy-compared-to-other-nfl-combine-quarterbacks.html
"The former five-star recruit has always had a live arm and had the second-hardest throw of the day at 61 mph – trailing only former Wolverine Joe Milton (62 mph). The other passing drills were subjective, with McCarthy drawing mixed reviews."
JJ has a great arm and great athleticism. He's arguably the most physically gifted QB in the draft. People make it out like he's some sort of game manager because he didn't pass a lot in Harbaugh system (and protecting leads in 4th quarters) but that's another example of people saying things...
This doesn't say weak arm either, nor is it implied. On throws to the Left, JJ missed his target several times. That's not about arm strength, but consistency & accuracy to that side, and only at the bringing of the drill
DeleteLearn the game, then take a stubborn stand
LOL. Same old same old jelly.
Delete" JJ doesn't lack arm strength at all. His arm isn't even average. He has a great arm."
Nobody here is trying to prove JJ has a weak arm.
Can't follow the thread - just here to make personal insults. Even with the quote spelled out and a link.
@ Lank 1:54 p.m.
DeleteSpeaking of not being able to follow conversations...
You said "some people say he has a weak arm." And then your example showed a person...not saying he has a weak arm. There are varying levels of arm strength, from Joe Milton/Jamarcus Russell/Josh Allen all the way down to Russell Bellomy/Nick Sheridan.
Saying "McCarthy might not have the arm strength to make the bigger throws outside the hash marks down the field" does not imply having a Nick Sheridan-like arm. It might just mean he's not Josh Allen.
In conclusion, you said a thing that isn't actually a thing. Or at least you have not provided any evidence. So own it, just like you expect others to do. Find someone besides a random OSU slappy on Twitter who says McCarthy has a weak arm or . . . stop making false claims.
@ Lank 3:12 p.m.
DeleteYour link to a "weak arm" is a link to a link written by someone named Jeevesh Singh whose syntax indicates English might not be his first language writing about a video that seems to be done by Chat Sports, which is notoriously untrustworthy. That's your "People are saying things source."
My source was Dane Brugler, who works for The Athletic and used to work for CBS Sports.
1. The answer is in this thread. You're talking about a weak arm with no evidence other than a roundabout Chat Sports reference of some sort.
2. For about the third or fourth time in the past few days, there is no "weak arm" vs. "strong arm" binary choice to be made. A receiver who runs a 4.4 is not slow, even if there are receivers who run a 4.3. A QB who can throw the ball 80 yards in the air might have a strong arm, but someone who can throw it 78 yards does not have a weak arm. You're supporting a false dichotomy.
You think one media person is an expert and another isn't. Some people don't think Dane Bugler is an expert -- but you do. Nobody here is vouching for chat sports or any other media source over Bugler or anyone else. Kurt put expert in quotes - meaning they might not be very expert experts. This is acknowledged throughout by everyone except for those getting hung up on the definition of an "expert" and who isn't.
DeleteDo you agree that experts can be wrong? Yes - you do. So why are you digging in to arguing about Kurt's example? And then challenging me to back it up?
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And while we're here -- everyone understands and no one is arguing with your point that there's a continuum and not a dichotomy when it comes to arm strength or speed. You keep pretending this is what the argument is. It's not. It never has been.
Even when you want to quibble about a "lacking arm strength" vs a "weak arm" there's a continuum at the NFL level where everyone is elite (relative to college or high school or whatever). It's semantics to argue if JJ's arm is weak, or not a strength. JJ has a great arm and the combine proved that.
Now you want to talk about a dichotomy at the same time that you are saying one person is an expert and one isn't. None of these people are board licensed draft experts -- that's a continuum too. So who is supporting a false dichotomy now?
You're making false accusations about what I'm saying and putting out Nick Sheridan to deviate from the point of the conversation. I'm sure you disagree with Bugler at times as well. You agree that experts can be wrong. You just don't want to agree in this case.
He's an unassailable expert in this case, because he agrees with you, it seems like.
You're making false accusations about me and you can't back them up. You're trying to divert from the topic.
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I'll circle back to original point of this discussion for absolute clarity:
Pass blocking is not going to be a deficiency for Blake Corum in the NFL. I'll stand on that. I don't care what people you deem experts and what you don't because that's a continuum and the people who are "concerned" about it are the on the wrong side, even if they have good reputations.
People say stuff and some people believe those people and sometimes those people are wrong. I think you are wrong on this one, because the argument for it is whack. Corum isn't too small to be an effective blocker and I don't think it will hold him back. Corum isn't even a very light RB - there were 7 guys at the combine who weighed less than him - and the starter on the Chargers weighs less than him too. I don't think they are worried, and I don't think they should be. Those are my experts.
I think you're wrong on JJ not having an excellent arm also. Best arm in the class (outside of Milton) is what I see from the combine velocity. And this list (who I'm sure you won't value because they don't support your claim) says McCarthy's arm is on part with Penix's (who you called elite).
https://www.the33rdteam.com/2024-nfl-draft-ranking-7-strongest-arms-in-this-years-qb-class/
We'll see what happens in the NFL. I don't think Corum's blocking or JJ's arms will be issues. In fact, I think each of them will be average to above average in each of them.
Go NFL Blue!
Yes, I trust Dane Brugler more than a link to a link to a video of some guy from Chat Sports who might have said something but nobody here has bothered to take the time to check if he actually said it.
DeleteIn other words, I'm not going to base my conclusions on the world's worst version of the Telephone game.
This conversation has always at the core been about which media sources we trust over Chat sports so it's great we reached agreement on that very important topic.
DeleteDesperate
DeleteEvery accusation is a confession
DeleteLOL. Lanky, stop making Thunder nuts! You know how you are sometimes.
ReplyDeleteRoanman
Dude doesn't know football ... just desperate for argument. Sociopathic tendency
DeleteI don't believe JJ's arm is a problem nor do I believe Blake's blocking (or size) are a problem. I recognize people say these things, I just watched a lot of these guys playing football the last 3 years and I trust my eyes more than these media members takes.
DeleteI mean - I'm just giving my opinion. It's an honest reaction to hearing that Corum is liability in either blocking or pass catching. I've watched him thrive in those areas wearing maize and blue!
Some talking head (non-scout) saying something doesn't mean I'm going to buy in. No matter how much Thunder trusts this guy. It's interesting information - I'm not saying otherwise - but it's not sacrosanct.**
Thunder's philosophy on the criticism of JJ mirrors mine on Corum. Somebody said something -- doesn't make it a fact. Moreover, it doesn't mean that it's a thing that can't be resolved through development of a rookie in the NFL.
As with JJ - nobody is saying Blake Corum is going to be an elite (as a blocker). We're saying the criticism doesn't land with us. Nobody should be worked up about either.
**Probably each of us "trust" different talking heads who have earned our respect to different degrees. That's fine. Acting like it's a FACT because one trusted (by us) talking head says so -- that's not fine. Someone doubting that opinion should be...fine. Stephen A Smith says stuff too so what. Even actual NFL scouts say stuff that is dead wrong pretty often. We're talking about opinions here.
@Thunder
DeleteI've seen Kyren Williams get lauded for his pass blocking ability through multiple sources. I can dig up links but that's wasting everyones time.
The PFF data is interesting and if you want to take that to mean he is average rather than very good. Sure - go for it - that is perfectly fine - split that hair.
The point is that Williams size doesn't seem to be a liability for blocking. And I don't think it would be a liability with Corum either, notwithstanding that Corum is also bigger than Williams.
So when I hear somebody say it's a problem because of size -- I disagree. When I hear someone say its a problem because of what he did (or didn't do) in college - I disagree. Am I 100% sure -- not at all. Am I saying he's an elite blocker -- no. My opinion is that that criticism doesn't hold much water. Unless Dane Bugler is your brother this shouldn't cause offense. And even if he is...
Lanky loves to argue. But you’re the guy making things personal. Let go of the liar shit. Your animus detracts from your position. Yeah, yeah everybody does it, Mae as much as any. Still, it never gets you home.
ReplyDeleteCorrect and correct Roanman. I will be cordial and respectful to jeL, even on a thread by thread basis. But since dude can't hold it together without making personal insults that have nothing to do with a discussion of football - I'll also return tit for tat. No other way with a bully, even one who claims he has grown. The interactions are funny to me, but obviously tedious to anyone else watching football discussions turn into an exchange of insults.
DeleteIf that's the way he wants, that's how he gets it.
@Roanman, insults started very long ago. After Lank quit the site, he returned with several false handles, including "SPANKJE" ... insults were the result of not being able to prove a point, and getting caught up in conflicting & competing points of view
Delete*calling me a 'bully: assumes victim status, while admitting to enjoy the gets out of all this ...
socialopathic indeed
Insults from long ago still relevant? Some might call that #rentfree
DeleteThe truth Lank ... you are simply unfamiliar & unaccepting of the concept
Deletesweet sweet fantasy from jelly
DeleteBoth of you guys like it here, except for the other guy. Make an effort, you'll both will have more fun.
ReplyDeleteRoanman
I've tried a few different tactics but this one (fighting fire with fire) is definitely the most fun by far. It's feeding the troll, but it's amusing.
DeleteAs I said, before. I'll respond to jeL with the same tone and civility as I receive. I do feel a little bad about participating in blowing up some of the threads that have a good discussion on them, but I'm not the first ape hurling the handful of poop in any of them.
It's called being easily manipulated
Delete#rentfree
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/thirsty
Delete