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| Kyle Seychel in the 2015 spring game |
Height: 6'2"
Weight: 171 lbs.
High school: Brighton (MI) Hartland
Position: Kicker
Class: Redshirt freshman
Jersey number: #31
Last year: I did not rank Seychel. He did not play.
When it comes to kicking, punting, and long snapping, I am by no means an expert. I can coach them a little bit, but figuring out whether a player has potential or not is best left to others. This is an especially tricky ranking in a year when the specialists over the last four to five years both disappeared at once: Will Hagerup was the primary punter for four of the past five years, and Matt Wile was a kickoff specialist for his entire career, plus being the full-time placekicker last year and part-time before that. The only kicker or punter on the roster who has seen game action at all is redshirt junior Kenny Allen, who has worked as a holder and also punted one time in the 2013 season opener.
That's where Kyle Seychel steps in. I have heard that he had a good spring, and the coaching staff trusts him going into the 2015 regular season. They appear to think that he will be their starting kicker this year, and he was the guy they sent in to kick the extra point in the spring game. As a class of 2014 prospect, Kornblue Kicking liked him and said he has NFL potential (LINK). During his senior year at Hartland, he averaged 42.8 yards a punt and made 6/8 field goals, including a 49-yarder (LINK). Also, 10 of his 12 recorded kickoffs went for touchbacks.
Other options include Allen, freshman scholarship kicker Andrew David, and freshman walk-on Ryan Tice. Let the best man win.
Prediction: Starting kicker
I understand the value of a good kicker. But man, when a redshirt freshmen walk-on kicker is more highly ranked than the backup QB ...
ReplyDeleteI'd say starting kickers (if they're decent, which is anyone's guess here) are more valuable than most backup quarterbacks, especially when that backup QB has been pretty bad.
DeleteI guess I was wrong on Kenny Allen. Was he previously ranked? I guess I missed im.
ReplyDeletehttp://touchthebanner.blogspot.com/2015/06/2015-season-countdown-80-kenny-allen.html
DeleteYeah I was reading your breakdown yesterday of who's left and I was racking my brain trying to figure out who was missing. I completely forgot about the kicker. Poor Kyle, most of the fans don't even know he's on the team. Hopefully he can get the job done.
DeleteI have said it before and will say it again, I love this feature of your blog. I would have never placed the long snapper or place kicker this high. But after reading your post and thinking about it I agree.
ReplyDeleteThank god for Rudock, otherwise we would have so many key positions ( positions that handle the ball a significant amount most games) with totally unproven players.
I'm glad you enjoy it. I hope the other 270-ish days of the year can be as interesting as the countdown days.
DeleteI guess we will see how this ranking pans out.
ReplyDeletePretty sure he went to Hartland, not Brighton.
ReplyDeleteThat's why it says Brighton (MI) Hartland. That's what's listed on the official roster, which is what I use when making these profiles.
DeleteJust figured I'd point it out. Hartland folk generally regard Brighton as a rival.
DeleteWe will see how this ranking, and the long snapper ranking, play out in similar fashion. We will not notice anything unless it goes wrong.
ReplyDeleteDisagree. Kickers are important but the difference between Sychel and David is unknown in both magnitude and direction. In other words, David could take over for Sychel (or vice versa) any game and no one would be really surprised. We have two primary kicking candidates. Both might be bad, both might be good. The only way one of them should be ranked this high is if the other one is bad. While that is possible, it could be Seychel who is the bad one, for all we know.
ReplyDeleteYou've heard things - OK. But I think you have to consider the level of uncertainty and instability in those 'things'.
The way I see it - we have a lot of options. Putting one unproven walk-on ahead of the others seems dubious. Besides, if our FG kickers suck we can elect to use them less frequently and might just be better off for doing so.
Finally -- Oy, if David is going to get red-shirted in favor of a walk-on that's a rough start for both him and this staff.
"David could take over for Sychel (or vice versa) any game and no one would be really surprised."
DeleteSurprise isn't really a factor here. Should I rank one higher or lower based on whether it's a "surprise" or not? If one guy turns out to be an all-conference kicker, should I still rank him #70 just because we're surprised?
This is an approximation. It's a guessing game based on educated (or at least semi-educated) guesses. From what you're saying, you think I should rank them all around #70 because who knows? But if we're being honest, we know that there are rarely four players at one position who are all equally talented.
So. Here he is at #24. If he's good, you'll eat your words. If he's not, I'll eat mine after the season (or at least when the 2016 countdown comes around). We'll see.
Also, I don't understand your comment about David. Walk-ons win kicking/punting jobs all the time. I don't see how it would be a "rough start" for the staff if they coach up a walk-on to be a starter/quality starter. In fact, I think it would be just the opposite - if Seychel wins the job and is good, I would say that's a positive sign for Baxter and Co. So...yeah, that last point of yours doesn't make sense.
DeleteExcept maybe the "rough start" refers to yet another scholarship (David) riding pine and not contributing. But otherwise, agree ... Seychel vs. David is a coin flip, and at the end of the day all that matters is if we have A decent enough kicker to get the job done.
DeleteIf he's an all-conference kicker - sure. But the approximation/guess/estimate has to be based on something for all these guys in the countdown and neither David nor Seychel have any track record. Maybe their both good. Maybe they're both bad. I just don't see any reason to rank a guy this highly that is unproven AND has a potential replacement.
DeleteI don't know that walk-on's win the job "all the time". It happens, but usually when it does it's because the scholarship guy sucked (as Gibbons did early in his career) or there is unexpected attrition. It's pretty rare for walk-on's to come in and win the kicking job on merit, just as it's rare for them to do so at other positions.
David was given a scholarship to be the starting kicker. Kicker is not a developmental position like OL or QB. If David fails to win the job, and loses it to a walk-on freshman at that - his scholarship is going to waste.
agreed - itd be nothing but positive for the program and ST units if this seychel kid wins the job. walk-ons handle plenty of kicking / punting / snapping duties all over the country. david not running away with the job from day 1 certainly does not signal his doom or indicate hes not talented enough to be a valuable member of the squad.
Deleteits obviously a huge weapon to have a kicker like fsu's aguayo or scholarship beasts like lsu's aussie punter brad wing from several years ago (wing played a huge part in lsu winning some big games and allowed lsu coaches to lean on their excellent D while taking pressure off their marginal O). but a team does not need a future pro kicker or punter to win big, they just need confident, competent specialists to do their jobs.
i dont have the data but im guessing historically specialists are more likely to impact teams as walk-ons than walk-ons at other positions on O or D. and its only fairly recently that programs have started seriously recruiting specialists and allocating scholarships to kickers / punters / snappers.
plus if seychel does win and hold onto the job, the staff can redshirt david if they truly like his potential. that way they (a) put another year of space between the redshirt frosh walk-on and david and (b) they would not have to scout and sign another kicker any time soon. i think every team in the country would love for their walk-on kicker to prove himself equal to or more talented than the kicker they liked enough to offer a scholarship - its one of those good problems to have
I take your points re: a good kicker is a good kicker and that's all that matters. I was also forgetting that David committed a long time ago to Hoke's staff -- so not a Harbaugh guy, though Harbaugh would have had the chance to make David 'explore options'...
DeleteStill, red-shirting a kicker is not a good use of scholarships and if David is going to be a backup for 4 of his 5 years on campus that's a failure of scholarship allocation. It's not "a good problem to have" if you are spending 2 scholarships on a position that should have one. If you are a Michigan fan you have to want David to win the job so that you get an extra scholarship available (vs Seychel winning the job and getting awarded one for the next 3 years after this one).
Regardless of all that - Seychel is too unproven to be ranked this high. We'll see how good your intel is, Thunder. Anything less than the next Ali-Haji Sheikh means this year's countdown is a failure. (note: that is a joke)
I'm hoping that we finally do have a coaching staff that will take special teams in general seriously (they were particularly bad under Hoke) and that our kick return and kick coverage will improve significantly, regardless of whose foot is involved.
ReplyDeleteI always look forward to your preseason rankings and recruit write ups. Nice to see a different ranking methodology that takes into account the actual situation on the team and the rest of the roster. Would be interesting to also see your list of best player regardless of roster depth. Maybe a post at the end of the count down with a side by side list of players under each ranking scheme.
ReplyDeleteInteresting that Kornblue liked Andrew David pretty good as well.
ReplyDeleteThe difference between a good kicker and a mediocre one amouts to real points on the board. This can possibly amount to a W in a spot you otherwise eat an L, kicking is very underrated and a huge part of the game.
ReplyDeleteIf Andrew David is going to be redshirted this year, is there a chance that the football coaching staff would allow him to work with the baseball team during the fall to determine whether he could become their starting second basemen, taking over for Jacob Cronenworth who's playing for the Hudson Valley Renegades in the Tampa Bay Rays' minor league system?
ReplyDeleteI doubt it.
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