This reminded me of 2021 Northwestern. Last fall Michigan played a completely overmatched Northwestern team. The Wolverines dominated that matchup . . . except for when Northwestern running back Evan Hull broke out on a 75-yard touchdown run. He ended up with 81 total rushing yards, and quarterback Ryan Hilinski was 14/29 for 119 yards, 0 touchdowns, and 1 interception. It was one of those games where one huge play for the opposition really grinds your gears. Against Penn State yesterday, it was two big plays: a 62-yard run by quarterback Sean Clifford and a 47-yard interception return touchdown by Curtis Jacobs. Somehow the Nittany Lions were ahead 14-13 and 17-16 despite being totally unable to find any consistency on offense.
Hit the jump for more.
Is Indiana's defense better than Penn State's? Last week Indiana's defensive line and linebackers had Michigan's blocking schemes and plays figured out. It was tough sledding against a mildly talented opponent. That was not the case yesterday, as Michigan racked up 418 rushing yards on 55 attempts (7.6 yards/carry). The last time Michigan topped 418 rushing yards was in 2016 against Rutgers, when the Wolverines ran 56 times for 481 yards (8.6 yards/carry) and 9 touchdowns in a 78-0 victory. So at least when it comes to running the ball, Michigan treated PSU like a pre-Schiano Rutgers team.
Speaking of running backs . . . Blake Corum (28 catches, 166 yards, 2 touchdowns) and Donovan Edwards (16 carries, 173 yards, 2 TDs) had fantastic days running the ball. Corum's 61-yard touchdown run and Edwards's 67-yard score were two of the big highlights of the day. It was the longest run of Edwards's career. Corum had two 67-yarders last season, and this was his longest rush of the 2022 season so far. Corum is now #2 in the country in rushing yards (behind Illinois' Chase Brown) with 901, and he leads the nation in touchdowns with 13. Edwards is a dynamic runner once he's in the open field. He's clearly not as good as Corum in small spaces, but his speed and acceleration make him very difficult to bring down if he gets a crease.
J.J. McCarthy thinks he's a superhero. McCarthy thinks he can make any play, and he can make more plays than most. His speed, toughness, and arm strength make him exciting to watch. He tends to hold onto the ball too long for those reasons, and sometimes that gets him into trouble. He took a huge risk when falling away to float a ball over a linebacker in the flat, and . . . it worked! Not only would Cade McNamara never have attempted that throw (he would have been sacked), he wouldn't have the arm strength to get the ball there. But it does have downsides, such as when a completely covered Blake Corum in the flat gets targeted on a rollout despite about 2.5 Nittany Lions standing between McCarthy and Corum. That ended in the ugliest play of the day, a deflected pass that turned into a touchdown for linebacker Curtis Jacobs. You can live with those mistakes when the opposing offense can't do jack squat, but against an explosive offense like Ohio State, McCarthy can't try to be Superman. He had a decent game overall (17/24, 145 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT; 7 carries for 57 yards), but it was pretty forgettable except for the fact that Michigan won by a landslide.
Michigan stepped it up on defense. I wasn't too worried about Penn State's passing game, but their run game made me wonder. Having a quarterback who can run a little bit is always a bit of an equalizer, and I like freshman running back Nick Singleton, whom Michigan recruited. He's impressed me with his ability to adjust to college schemes, whereas in high school he just ran sweep left and sweep right for touchdown after touchdown (I'm oversimplifying). But Singleton had just 6 carries for 19 yards. Clifford's lone big run came on a nice fake where everyone except Michael Barrett - who was being blocked - went for the running back. Otherwise, PSU's receiving targets were blanketed. Michigan did a nice job of switching up coverages and keeping Clifford guessing. The pass rush only resulted in 2 sacks, but Clifford was never able to get comfortable, either. He probably had PTSD from getting hammered in 2021 by Aidan Hutchinson and David Ojabo.
On to Michigan State. Both Michigan and Michigan State have a bye next week in the lead-up to the Paul Bunyan game. The Spartans beat Wisconsin 34-28, but it took overtime to do it. On paper Michigan is clearly the favorite, but anything can happen in these bitter rivalry games.
To begin with, I can do without the "Blake the Great" thing ... I like "The Don" but it's too early. Speaking of which, two of Edward's plays were interesting to me yesterday. On the second, he caught a bit of turf and stumbled slightly and then recovered and kicked it back into gear on a very nice run. Last year, I think he would possibly have fallen down, or lost enough momentum to get grabbed. He has an odd looking, inconsistant stride (to me at least) that causes him to lose balance ... I think ... maybe. But the big one as far as I'm concerned is on the 25 yard run, pretty early, somebody diving at him got a loose hold on both his feet at the same time, he makes a nice hop out of it and runs away. I think on that one, he goes down last year for sure. I liked it along with his whole game.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of stumbling, McCarthy on the pick stumbled probably on his second step pulling out. He never really got into a good shape for making that throw. While Penn State did have guys between he and Corum, Corum had green all around him. Had he got out there on time with a better shape for throwing, I think that play goes for some. But, he didn't and he wasn't and should have taken the sack.
On Edward's 67 yard TD. I thought to myself, "What a great seal from Barnhart. That play was blocked all the way to the offside safety. Just spectacular blocking. This morning watching the hi lights, I'm thinking, "Wow" Karson Barnhart is about the scrawniest looking right tackle I've ever see. When I ran it back, Whoa!! That's Schoonmaker shoving a much heavier man right down the line, no problem. That was a very impressive block. They got him the leverage lining up and all that, but still.
It may well be camera angles, but it looks to me like Upshaw lines up offside more than occasionally.
I am not sophisticated enough to be able to pick up on this with any real confidence, but at Indiana, we felt pretty vanilla on offense. Not so yesterday, the mostly full threat of JJ McCarthy in the run game was on display to Penn State's extreme disadvantage. It felt like we always had numbers every time we looked to run. They have real good corners and BIG safeties, I say, "Pound em"
Kind of hoping somebody does the every snap offense and defense on this game. I'd like to sit with that. Kind of hoping Space Coyote does something on this game too.
Roanman
@Roanman
DeleteI don't think you're right about Edwards. We'll likely see him as the lead back next year and I don't think balance or falling down will be an issue. At that point someone will say he got better and I'll say it was never an issue in the first place. (This is a bit like worrying about Corum as a goalline runner.)
I think sometimes freshman can get a reputation based on an isolated event in a limited sample. Erik All hands for example. The coaches knew that wasn't a real issue because they see him in practice today, while we just get a sliver.
In the case of Edwards - the coach's playing time decision should tell you more than a single stumble. If the coaches thought Edwards had balance issues they wouldn't have put him out there against OSU to run between the tackles (when Corum and Haskins were both available).
Thinking logically, is it more likely Edwards spent an offseason improving his balance to address a deficiency or that no such issue ever existing with a physically mature 5-star RB who was utilized in a prominent role as freshman? Like, maybe some people were reading too much into a grand total of 35 carries? Edwards will probably have individual games with more than that next year.
Not saying guys can't get better or all backs are identical but we've seen enough from Edwards (over 100 touches) to know he's a good ball carrier. 6.2 ypc career to Corums 6.1.
On a breakout day for the kid I'm a little surprised at the nits being picked with our next star back. And make no mistake - if Moore, McCarthy, and 3/5 of the OL return, there WILL be another star back.
@ Lank
DeleteIf we presume that "There was never a problem in the first place," then the corollary is that "Players are the same in year one that they are in years two, three, and four."
All had several easy drops a couple years ago. That was a problem. Perhaps those issues didn't exist in practice (in fact, he was reported coming out of camp to have perhaps the best hands on the team), but they existed in games. If you don't think those drops haunted All and/or his coaches and became a point of focus for the rest of that year and the off-season leading up to 2021, I don't think you know how sports work.
Edwards had balance issues last year, as noted by multiple people. Did he spend an entire off-season saying, "No, my balance is fine and I'm perfectly strong! I will not improve my balance or try to get better at stepping through tackles!" No...he worked on various aspects of his game, and presumably getting stronger was part of it.
Corum was listed at 200 pounds last year. He's 210 now. Again, if you think adding 10 pounds of muscle - because he's not fat, and I don't think he got taller - was just a coincidence and not part of a specific plan to get stronger and more durable, once again, I think you're not in touch.
Players have shortcomings/weaknesses. If their coaches, strength coaches, and competitive desire are anywhere near where they should be for the FBS/pro level, they're going to work on those things in the off-season.
@Thunder
DeleteThat's deeply flawed logic. Steph Curry practices his free throw shooting. Not because it's a deficiency. He wants to be better so he works at it. That's what players do.
Sometimes Steph misses anyway. Sometimes he might even miss 2 or 3 in a row. Maybe someone who doesn't know anything about Steph Curry may happen to walk by at that minute and catch Steph missing three in a row randomly and think "that guy can't shoot at all". That person would be wrong.
Do you not think fans can't be wrong? Because I think All's issues with drops were NOT issue at all. I believe the coaches when they told us that it was not a real issue in 2020. All didn't need to work on anything - he just dropped an easy ball and then another one that wasn't so easy. It happens. They just happened to be early in his career when we hadn't seen much from him to know any better. He caught 7 of 11 balls that went his way in 2020 but we had no other data so some concluded it was a problem. It was not. All caught every routine ball thrown his way the following year - no issue. The coaches told us and they were right. It was just a matter of sample size.
You can contrast it right now with somebody with the same "problem" - Cornelius Johnson. He has also had a couple bad drops this year and has caught only 11 of 15 balls in 2022. Very similar to All except no one thinks he has a problem catching the ball because he's a senior we've watched for 4 years. In fact - Johnson has dropped far more routine balls in his career than All has - at a higher rate, but, again, no one has IDed this as a problem because they've been spread out throughout his career and not clustered early in it. We've seen Cornelius Johnson catch plenty of balls - so we know he can catch. Even though he very likely has worse hands than Erik All, it was never a "problem" for Johnson.
Ditto for fumbling. CJ Stokes is going to work on fumbling to make sure he doesn't fumble again, except that he WILL fumble again. His fumbling isn't necessarily a bigger problem than Donovan Edwards (who also fumbled). Edwards is going to work on not fumbling too - even though nobody is saying it's problem because we've seen him run with the ball 100 times and we've only seen Stokes a handful of times. Edwards is also going to work on his route running and catching, which nobody thinks is a problem either.
If CJ Stokes fumbles again we're going to say it's a problem, because we have seen very little else from him. If Donovan Edwards fumbles again we're not, because we have. Either one might fumble in the next game...and then not again the rest of the year or even maybe their career. Sometimes stuff happens and then people make up narratives to put order to randomness. It's human nature. We know Jerry Rice can drop a ball and Barry Sanders can stumble but it's not in our nature to think of randomness.
CJ Stokes MIGHT have a fumbling problem - but the coaches would know that and we wouldn't.. If he did he probably won't be out there again.
There are real problems and there are fake problems. All's dropsies was a fake problem. Corum and Edwards inability between the tackles was a fake problem (that could be disproven by watching literally the next game unless your opinion was already locked in by then, or questioned with a healthy dash of skepticism if considering the context of having a runner like H2 ahead of them on the depth chart).
The question you still haven't answered --
If Edwards had balance issues why did the coaches put him on the field in critical situations against OSU with Haskins and Corum both available?
If Edwards had balance issues why did that NEVER come up in his recruiting profiles?
If Corum wasn't good between the tackles - why did the coaches use him to run between the tackles so frequently and why was his recruiting profile that of an all-purpose back who could do everything?
I don't understand this disagreement. We all agree and believe Corum & Edwards when they talk about the work they put in. Anyone in sports (or any industry) knows that we have areas of improvement, and through commitment & effort, we can improve
DeleteCorum busts his butt, and has improved ea of his three years on campus. Edwards did have balance & lower body strength issues. HS tape of him running outside may not show it, but his FR year at MICHIGAN did. Still, the potential was there, and we have reason for hope
It's all good. GO BLUE
Yep - we all agree people have strengths and weakness, identify areas for improvement, and work hard to get better.
DeleteWhere we disagree is the connections that Thunder is making. Namely,
Fans are generally accurately in diagnosing deficiencies and those deficiencies are where players will focus their development.
There's multiple flaws in the logic.
The first is the focus on deficiencies/limitations. Jake Rudock isn't good at running - does that mean he is going to spend his offseason working on it? No - he's prioritizing getting even better at his accuracy, reads, timing, etc because that where his time is best focused.
I'll give a macro level example too - last year against Northern Illinois Michigan ran the ball 48 times and passed 17. They worked on their strength, not their weakness.
Which brings us to the other point - fans being wrong. Many fans at this time complained that Michigan needed balance and they should thus be working on it during games (because fans tend to focus on what they see while those who do rather than watch know that development is a day to day grind, not a once a week hobby. But that's an aside - pretend the fans are right and games are where development happens.) The Michigan coaches chose something different than what fans said - they focused their efforts on a strength not a weakness. And those that said "We must have balance to beat OSU" where proven wrong. The coaches, who decided to focus on turning a strength into a bigger strength were proven right in the second half of OSU.
Fans are wrong. A lot.
Corum and Edwards have improved. No one is arguing otherwise.
DeleteBut that doesn't preclude some fans from being wrong about them during and after their freshman seasons.
Corum, as a freshman, got the ball more than a sophomore Zach Charbonnet and a 5th year Chris Evans. Both are very good players, future NFL RBs, and already established at the time. But Corum was better than them -- already, as a freshman -- that's why the coaches gave him the ball more. Now some people saw those carries and said the coaches did the wrong thing and some came into 2021 saying the hype for Corum wasn't really warranted based on the results (just 3 ypc what a chump). There is no other way to put it - those people were wrong. The coaches knew better and Corum has subsequently proven that the coaches were right.
Likewise with Edwards. Fans saw him stumble on college carry number 20 against Northwestern (or whatever it was) and drew some conclusions about his balance. Unlike Corum he didn't get the ball ahead of his competition but when Corum got hurt (and Edwards recovered from his own injury) he stepped right in and stepped up. Edwards disproved the narrative against Maryland. Kid could play. Then, with Corum back and Haskins also available, he STILL got the ball against OSU. Case closed.
What's going on after that is CYA rationalizing. The "he simply got better" is an excuse, an alternative to saying "I was wrong about him.". The hot take - this 5-star RB that the coaches say is awesome and produced in limited duty is actually not a good RB - was disproven to anyone with eyeballs.
The issue here isn't with the player it's with a fan not admitting their speculation is wrong. It shouldn't be a big deal. We're forming opinions as we go and the early ones based on limited samples are often not going to be very good ones. They are just guesses based on glimpses. But if you're hung up on being right and can't let go then it is what it is. We are all wrong sometimes and that's OK.
Again - fans are wrong. A lot.
Just to be clear I'm not excluding myself. I thought Wilton Speight was an NFL QB, Jeremy Gallon was an NFL WR, Alan Bowman would start over Cade McNamara, Mike Sainristil would not be a good enough DB to start, and I was not impressed with Donovan Edwards as a runner after game 1. I can be a stubborn SOB but when it comes to offseason takes I know they aren't necessarily worth a damn anymore come October.
DeleteThis is a big step right here for Lanky and should be supported.
DeleteI have no problem admitting I'm wrong. Anyone who makes predictions and spends time "reading the tea leaves" or reading too much into tiny sample sizes or non-relevant examples, you are going to be wrong a lot. Predictions are stupid. (but some more than others).
DeleteMSU just gave JL Smith part 2 a ten year contract so unless they can score a doke walker award guy out of nowhere in the portal, I see tough times for them. Look for UM to pave them. Would like to see Corum on a pitch count but it looks like they are going to ride him like a rented mule. The passing attack looks average, I don't see many WR's running free like I see in every other game. JJ hits those short passes though, in stride, for 5-8 yards at a 90% clip.
ReplyDeleteThunder, a little off topic but as i was watching that game, I was thinking about being an offensive line recruit. Why in the hell is M not a dream destination for OL? Is it our scheme? Other than NIL, why would 4 and 5 stars not line up to play at M. It has to be a ball on the line when you are demoralizing people like that? I know other teams have good run games but very few like M and Alabama. I would also add RB’s should like it too, but a different time.
ReplyDeleteAnything can happen against sparty, but after losing two straight, we better MF pound them!
ReplyDeleteKind of an oddity but UM in the Harbaugh era is only 1-3 in Ann Arbor vs MSU. Part of that is catching our down years (2017, 2020) and the other one was the goofball punt game in 2015, all in AA.
DeleteNonetheless I feel much less worried with the game being in AA. We're the better team, again. They'll bring their best performance of the year, again. I still don't think it'll be enough for them.
MSU has been incredibly lucky to win a bunch of single possession games. 4, 4, 4, 3 where the margins of victory for MSU, 9, 14, and 34 the other way. I think their luck has run out.
I would honestly be surprised if they won more than once in the next 5 years. Harbaugh has this program back to top 10 and MSU is going to have to go back to being the little brother.
When they beat us it's usually by being tougher in the trenches. With Olu, ZZ, Mazi I feel exceedingly confident that won't happen.
DeleteHow much of the difference in performance against PSU compared to IU can be attributed to Michigan not respecting IU and preparing more for PSU?
ReplyDeleteMy prediction: Michigan boat races Michigan St, 62-6
ReplyDeleteI'm glad the focus on offense seems to have been shifted from JJ McCarthy to the RBs. The offense looks unstoppable now, and fun. I love Blake Corum.
ReplyDeleteI don't want JJ to lose his edge or stop thinking he's a superhero. I get it - those kind of mistakes can lose you a close game - judgement can be improved - but you also need that confidence to go out and make plays, scramble, and turn nothing into something. It's something guys like Cade, Wilton, and Jake Rudock lacked.
ReplyDeleteAgainst OSU, we may well NEED JJ to play like Superman.
Is there a "trap" game between now and OSU? MSU, Nebraska, and Illinois are at home; Rutgers is away. My sense is Michigan won't look past MSU, there's last year to avenge. Illinois, which is much improved, the week before OSU? I can't imagine Rutgers being able to run with Michigan. Could Nebraska catch Michigan looking past them?
ReplyDeleteIllinois might be the best, but I think their style plays to our strength
DeleteNebraska comes to Ann Arbor, soooo ... maybe rutger?
MSU is the closest thing. We are not going to look past them, but with 2 weeks to celebrate PSU we might be a little comfortable. Meanwhile MSU is right at the sweet spot of "no one believes in us" and "we believe in ourselves" after the confidence-boost against Wisc. I'm confident we are the better team but MSU is the scariest "spot".
DeleteIt's not a very high bar. Rutgers barely counts as a road game with all our NY area alumni. Nebraska is whatever - as with Indiana we can probably beat them without being fully invested. Illinois probably is the best team on the list but I agree with JE about the matchup. We'll know a lot more about them if they survive Purdue and MSU. Even if their surprisingly strong D holds up through the next month, they won't have seen anything close to Michigan's O (no offense to Wisconsin but they aren't there this year)
An upset could come at anytime but our road to a matchup of undefeated heavyweights in Columbus is cleaner than OSU's. They still have road games against PSU and Maryland, plus pesky Iowa and Indiana at home.
DeleteBoth OSU and UM will be well prepared in terms of seeing high caliber defenses, but neither team will have seen an offense as strong as each other's.
That said - OSU's is on another level than Michigan's. The statistical difference between us and them on O is about the same as us and middling Nebraska. Defenses are close though, so far.
The X-factor with Michigan State is going to be whether they plan to play it straight up, or if they'll play dirty in an attempt to slow down Corum or McCarthy.
DeleteAn X factor implies a variable or unknown -- but I think we know what the answer is here.
Delete@ Lank 1:29 p.m.
ReplyDeleteOh, crap, I guess I'm wrong about Erick All wanting to work on his drops.
But wait...
"According to Pro Football Focus, All dropped 25% of balls that were on target to him, and the analytic site gave All a 28.1 grade for hands/drops. 2020 was not a good year for the tight end."
"“Man, it’s that was my worst season I’ve ever played in my life,” All admitted during Big Ten media days. “Ever. And I’m like, it’s just the game. Like, when when I talked to Greg, Mr. Greg Harden, he basically put me back in that mindset. And basically reminded me football is a game, you’re supposed to have fun, you’re not supposed to treat it like a job. And I’m not supposed to treat it like it runs your life. It’s a sport. You don’t need football, you need to focus on what you do after football and what other things you can focus on other than football. It basically changed my life because I was probably more than likely going to be stuck in the same mindset.”
https://wolverineswire.usatoday.com/2022/07/28/michigan-football-erick-all-calls-2020-worst-season-ever-played/
All was the worst in the conference in drops. He sought out Greg Harden to try to overcome the deficiency. He admits that it was weighing on his mind and causing him problems, but that he made attempts to fix it.
I guess All and Thunder are wrong, and Lank is right.
You're resorting to sarcasm to argue with points not made -- Nobody is arguing the drops didn't happen, didn't matter, or didn't bother All.
DeleteThe argument was that All's hand were never a problem or a deficiency that needed to be worked on. He caught every routine ball the year before and the year after. The coaches said he doesn't have bad hands in between, despite the drops in 2020. It was a blip during a 1/2 season.
Harden's advice was to not take it seriously. To focus on more important things -- The exact opposite of your argument!
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/steph-curry-missed-free-throws-game-4-out-body-experience
"Curry shot free throws after practice on Tuesday because he always does. Because it’s a ritual, not because he missed four in a game for the first time in his 13-year NBA career."
My turn for sarcasm: I guess Lank is wrong and Thunder is right - Steph Curry's free throw shooting is a problem and he really needs to work on this severe deficiency in the offseason. If he just works hard enough in the offseason training program, the 34 year old with a career free throw percentage of 91% will avoid missing 4 free throws in a game again for the second time in his 826 career games. Doubtlessly the media and opposing players mentioning the misses will drive Steph Curry to improve on his poor shooting abilities. Unless he remains obstinate in his arrogant stance of not accepting it's a problem and continuing with his same old routine, which, again, resulted in him missing 4 free throws in a playoff loss - a major problem for the World Champions.
Erik All's Hands an Oral History:
DeleteThunder / Summer 2020 - "All reportedly has some of the best hands on the team, regardless of position."
Erik All / Late 2020 - "I feel bad about dropping balls in games"
TE Coach Moore 2020 - "Erik catches everything in practice. We have full confidence he'll make those plays in the future."
Greg Harden 2020 - "Erik - Don't even waste your time thinking about it. Literally focus on anything else. It's all good. Go have fun."
Thunder / Summer 2021 - "All would have been removed from my game plan after the Wisconsin game. I question Josh Gattis continuing to use him. The door isn't shut on All being a quality player. But if his struggles continue..."
Lank / Summer 2021: "The hands are a concern but this maybe overstated based on the sample size. He's a potential breakout player. I'm buying the hype."
Erik All / Summer 2022 - "I feel good about catching everything that came my way in 2021 and my all conference honors here I am at Media Days. Thanks Greg Harden for easing my mind."
Lank / Fall 2022 - "Erik All's hand were never a real problem and thus never needed fixing."
Thunder / Fall 2022 - "Erik All had a real problem with his hands and the answer to it was spending the 2021 offseason focused on fixing that real problem in direct contradiction to what his coaches and advisors said. All gained weight so clearly he worked hard and the offseason efforts paid off and you can see that the problem I identified with his hands was no longer a problem the following year due to All's single-minded focus on working hard to address his deficiencies and not due to being a fake problem that didn't exist in the first place."
Note: These quotes are not real but "informed by reality" and "true in spirit". You can find some real ones here:
http://touchthebanner.blogspot.com/2021/08/2021-season-countdown-19-erick-all.html
You're the only one talking about Steph Curry.
DeleteAll I know is that Erick All was so bothered by the drops that he sought out help to overcome the drops. And after receiving advice/help to overcome the drops, the drops stopped being a problem. Now we can sit here and say the drops were no big deal and that he didn't need to make any extra efforts to overcome them, but that's just wrong, so we shouldn't be saying that.
Is the game when McCarthy plays better than McNamara coming some day?
DeleteCame the second game of the season. Continues.
DeleteOh you're talking to me .No. No, still waiting gor JJ McCarthy to be a better overall QB. He lack maturity .But yeah, lets watch him talk about ChikFilA during a press conference .
DeletePenn St 2021
DeleteCade McNamara: 19/29, 217 yards, 3 TDs, 0 ints
Penn St 2022
JJ MCCarthy: 17/24, 145 yards, 0 TDs, 1 ints (poor decision pick 6)
McNamara was better in 2021 than JJ MCCarthy has been in 2022
Meanwhile, the running game and defense are better in 2022. JJ's supporting cast may glossing over his true colors. He is immature, isn't he.
You forgot to include the final score.
Delete2021 21-17
2022 41-17
420 rushing yards because the QB is a run threat.
We keep score for a reason.
@Thunder. Sometimes all the help people need is someone else telling them it's not problem.
DeleteAll's issue in 2021 is no different than Cornelius Johnson's issue in 2022 - a handful of drops in a half season. I have no idea if Johnson considers it a problem or not but I am sure he is frustrated by them.
Erik All has good hands. Steph Curry is good at free throw shooting.
DeleteNeither is a problem, or ever has been, for either player, even when they had bad days.
Lank, please stop. You clearly like to argue because you can't accept when someone else tells you you're wrong even when their points dismantle your views. "I have no problem being wrong". You most certainly do and can only accept it when you're the one saying you're wrong because only you could make such a judgement about yourself, no one else. Your crippling insecurity is embarrassing.
DeleteSteph Curry
@Anon/Steph
DeleteNo. If someone "dismantles my views" I will acknowledge it when it happens. That didn't happen here. Greg Harden makes my case - All didn't need to work on his hands at all. It was not a problem to be fixed.
Thunder is happy to acknowledge that some things are innate and cannot be substantially affected by training. We just disagree on what those things are. I think it's physical things like speed and balance, he thinks it's passing accuracy. I think somebody like Joe Burrow going form 58% one year to 76% the next is a sign that it can be developed.
I don't feel insecure or embarrassed. Maybe you're projecting again JE, sorry Anon sorry Steph.
Came tha first game of the season. Fixed it
ReplyDeletePSU last year- 21-17 and took a great play by All outrunning the entire PSU defense for 40 yards.
ReplyDeleteThis year, 41-17 paving with 410 ! Yards rushing with McCarthy threatening the run.
No Haskins. No 3 first round defenders.
The End.
You slipped JJ into the success of the running game. Trying to cover for his obvious shortcomings by associating him with the real strength of the offense.? LOL.
DeleteAnd you fail to acknowledge, or maybe can't see because you are blinded by JJ hysteria syndrome, that the defense is clearly better than last year.
DeleteGood point...420 yards running because the safety and LB's are chasing the run threat allowing 60 yard runs.
DeleteYou keep score for a reason.
Same team, 41 points with no haskins,no All
Oh, the run game is doing good all because of JJ. JJ is the run threat now, not just the pass threat. I see how this JJ hype train is going. Everything is JJ.
DeleteLet me know how the defense is playing great because of JJ. Fill me in on how you are rationalizing that. Keep that JJ hype train roaring down the tracks!!!!
Was that pick 6 all a ruse, some strategy thought out by the Houdini brilliance of the genius mind of JJ, just to try to make the coaches JJ will be facing in the future think he makes bad decisions, so then they won't plan as hard, then he will capitalize on it? There must have been some master plan behind these things JJ does.
Does JJ make your life better too? Is your coffee tasting better? The toast is kept from burning? Rice doesn't stick to the pan? The songs you like are the only ones being played on the radio? Te stains always come out of your clothes when you wash them? You get raises and bonuses at work now, because of JJ?
So anyway, fill me in how JJ is making the defense for Michigan so good? How is JJ the reason for that happening?
"You keep score for a reason.
DeleteSame team, 41 points with no haskins,no All"
And you think it is all because of JJ MCCarthy.
The game was AT Michigan. Does that mean anything? No, now that factor doesn't mean anyhting to you, because it takes credit away from JJ.
The truth is, Michigan blew Penn St away DESPITE JJ McCarthy. They would have beaten Penn St worse this year if McNamara was at QB.
It wasn't only the pick 6 int that was a bad decision. Jim Harbaugh didn't approve of this either:
https://twitter.com/JDue51/status/1581593561598169090
The best Qb is on the field, the second best Qb is on the bench. It is all as it should be.
DeleteLike when Joe Burrow was on the bench at Ohio St, and Baker Mayfield was on the bench at Texas Tech?
DeleteThe best QB doesn't alway start.
It would be nice if JJ McCartjy stared looking like the better QB.
DeleteYou're embarrassing yourself.
DeleteHarbaugh was right when he started Cade over JJ last year and JJ over Cade this year.
DeleteMeyer was right when he kept Joe Burrow on the bench at OSU also.
And Carr when he started Griese over Brady.
The eye test doesn't show that McCarthy is better than McNamara. Neither does the math.
DeleteBut you want to lie to yourself , and believe neither.
One of Jim Harbaugh's cardinal rules in cloosing a starting QB is someone that protects the ball. JJ McCarthy has violated that rule .
Delete"And you think it is all because of JJ MCCarthy?. "
DeleteYes. Those 60 yard runs become 4 yard runs with Cade. 2 extra unblocked defenders to beat.
"The game was AT Michigan. Does that mean anything?"
Good point, subtract 3 points from 41 for home field.
The End.
Did you take into account the fumbles? The games with multiple poor handlings of the ball? Did Cade ever fumble twice in a game?
DeleteBut yeah, keep that damage control car of the JJ hype train working overtime!!
Both JJ and Cade have lost one career fumble. JJ in 55 carries, Cade in 46. So the INT thing is far more impactful than the fumble thing and JJ looses fumbles at a lower rate than Cade does.
DeleteBUT - fumbles lost is kind of random so it's better from a predictive perspective to look at total fumbles (lost and recovered). JJ has fumbled more often on a per carry basis (including sacks). JJ has a fumble for every 7 carries while Cade has fumbled every 11 carries. These are career numbers.
So if you do the math on that and assume 50% of fumbles are recovered typically, you get JJ with 47 more passes per INT and 8 fewer carries per fumble lost.
So, using this logic the safer QB depends on how much you want to run. If you assume a game with 25 pass attempts and 3 carries it is JJ. If you assume a game with 25 pass attempts and 10 carries it is Cade.
Of course nobody is going to run 10 times with Cade for obvious reasons so this is pretty much moot. Like the whole damn question about who should be starting LOL.
But bottomline - yeah, even with fumbles considered, JJ is the more turnover averse option.
Now if you actually put value on the run game (as you should), JJ has produced 171 rushing yards while Cade has produced 3. So for every JJ fumble (8 career) you get 20 rushing yards while for every Cade fumble (4 career) you get 1.
There's some "damage control" on the Heisman contender leading a top 5 offense to an undefeated season thusfar.
We're talking about JJ, so yeah, suddenly fumbles don't really mean much. Protectiong the ball? Come come, don't be such a nose bleed. It's all relative now. JJ can do anything wrong, and meh, it's not nothing. It's JJ comin at ya with a bag of Chick-fil-A in his hand. There's no longer need to be careful with the ball when you got a QB talkin chicken sandwiches and fries! The new normal, courtesy of the JJ Hype Train!!!!!
DeleteSheesh, you damage control freaks are precious.
Is this the same Anon making fun of name-calling and pointing out that JJ is a Heisman contender? I can't keep track.
DeleteJJ is less turnover prone than Cade. That includes consideration of INTs and fumbles. JJ has lost the same amount of fumbles as Cade in more carries and throws INTs less frequently.
That was the one argument the Cade backer had left. Had. In terms of running and passing JJ is clearly superior. Jim Harbaugh knows what he is doing.
I never saw Cade McNamara fumble twice in a game, or throw a careless pick 6.
DeletePut the Kool Aid down.
My "Kool Aid" is an 11-2 season, with the help of the best QB in a decade.
DeleteThe only one drinking something unhealthy around here is the person who thinks Cade McNamara can turn that into 15-0 after watching his PUTRID performances against Georgia and Washington last year...not to mention all of 2022.
You are aware that Cade has thrown 2 TDs and 5 INTs in his last 6 games right?
DeleteI'm not here to crap on Cade, he helped us win ball games last year, but it was more of a "despite him" than "because of him" situation - and the play-calling illustrated that. Michigan was far less careful in their before and after Cade. Perhaps that's what you're really bothered by.
And I mean you, AnonymousOctober 20, 2022 at 8:58 AM, ad infinitum. You have become laughable and an embarrassment to yourself. the good news is that you are anon and are able to walk around secure in the knowledge that nobody knows what an embarrassment you really are. You should keep it that way. Better for your legacy.
ReplyDeleteAs is always true of the internet, when one has nothing of value to add, they resort to personal attacks.
DeleteHave all you JJ protectors notice that all the talk of "JJ for Heisman" has gone away? The Heisman odds for him in July were +5000. Today they are +8000.
ReplyDeleteYou sure you want to stick to your stories?
You guys are acting like he's as valuable as Hendon Hooker or something.
JJ is a Heisman contender!?! Dang. Here I was thinking Blake Corum was our guy. Well done JJ. Impressive he's listed for a guy who wasn't even starting to begin the year.
Delete"You guys are acting like he's as valuable as Hendon Hooker or something."
DeleteWho is Hendon Hooker and why should I care?
420 yards rushing against a top ten rush defense.
41 points.
Defenses have to defend the QB with 4.5 speed and moves or it is 6.
That leaves the RB to take it to house with one move.
The schedule is easier but going from 5.2 ypc to 5.8 ypc is still notable considering the starting RB and starting RT got drafted away. JJ deserves some of the credit for the improvement, as he's the only other big change.
DeleteOf course that's not as notable as the passing game improvement but we're supposed to ignore that.
@Anon744
I know this isn't an honest debate but I'm enjoying it anyway. Looking forward to seeing where the goalposts move to next! We're a few weeks away from you saying JJ isn't good he hasn't produced at the NFL level like Tom Brady. I'll google some college stats to argue in JJ's favor. Can't wait!
You'll see where the goal posts are moved when we drop a half a hundred on MSU in a week lol. I don't have to look, I remember when comparing JJ to Henson/Brady. JJ is far better than Henson or Brady at similar points. Henson looked like a chicken running around in circles his sophomore year. Brady was 4th string. And they had first round WR's to throw to.
DeleteBrian Griese threw for almost 20K yards in the NFL and was 2 years older than Brady - so no shame sitting behind him. In 98 Brady beat out not only Henson but Dreisbach - who also played QB in the NFL. It was QB U there for a little while in the Moeller/early Carr era.
DeleteMcCarthy only had to pass one other legit QB - and he is not likely to be an NFL QB. (My guy Alan Bowman probably doesn't count here, nor do the two developmental freshman.)
It's a different era now but McCarthy looks more polished than Henson to me. Statistically, it's McCarthy by a mile but again - different eras.
Keep chuggin along hypes!!!
DeleteI remember all the Milton hype to, higher ceiling stuff, and all that. For sure, McCarthy is 100 times better than Milton. But by now, even the most die hard McCarthy hype train--er has to see whats happening.......right?
Delete"All the Milton hype" -- you mean everyone expecting McCaffrey to be the starter for nearly 4 years and then a sudden turn to a notoriously raw backup who had hardly played?
Deletehttps://touch-the-banner.com/2020-season-countdown-10-dylan-mccaffrey/
Thunder wasn't alone here. I'm still bitter about how McCaffrey left in part because I had such high hopes in him. After hearing such great things about McCaffrey through all of 2017, 2018, and 2019, 2020 was supposed to be his year to ascend. He is from football family royalty and that was supposed to mean something. But he quit on the team under circumstances that still haven't been made totally clear.
What was clear was that Joe Milton was "supposed" to be a backup who maybe someday learned to use his cannon wisely. Mgoblog rated the QB position a 2 going into the year and said we might be doomed. They were as alone as they were wrong.
It wasn't till Milton played great against Minnesota that expectations were elevated - and that was based on performance not hype. We all know how his Michigan story ends (badly) but if you want to talk about hyped QBs at Michigan it was O'Korn, Peters, McCaffrey, and Patterson who got the most.
Cade and Joe were not even top 200 recruits - closer to Jayden Denegal levels of hype than McCaffrey/Peters levels.
The best QB on the team is the 4th string punter! Prove me wrong.
ReplyDeleteWrong! The best QB is the 5th string practice squad line backer!
DeleteNyah! Nyah!
DeleteThis is too much for you!
Delete"Who's peekin' out from under a stairway
DeleteCalling a name that's lighter than air
Who's bending down to give me a rainbow
Everyone knows it's Windy" -- The Association
"Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed a courage little seen in this day and age." -- Olson Johnson, Rock Ridge
Deletecontrarian (noun): "a contrary or obstinate person"
DeleteMom! He's making faces at me!
Delete