Monday, September 25, 2023

2023 Ex-Wolverine Updates: Week 4


Te'Cory Couch (image via On3)

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TE Erick All (Iowa): All caught 3 passes for 35 yards in a 31-0 loss to Penn State.

WR Andrel Anthony (Oklahoma): Anthony caught 7 passes for 117 yards in a 20-6 win over Cincinnati. He now has 21 catches for 371 yards and 1 touchdown this year.

QB Alan Bowman (Oklahoma State): Bowman completed 23/48 throws for 278 yards, 2 touchdowns, and 2 interceptions in a 34-27 loss to Iowa State. He also ran 4 times for 5 yards and 1 touchdown.

Hit the jump for more.

S Damani Dent (Charlotte): Dent did not play in a 22-7 loss to Florida.

CB Darion Green-Warren (Nevada): Green-Warren did not play in a 35-24 loss to Texas State.

TE Louis Hansen (UConn): Hansen did not record any stats in a 41-7 loss to Duke.

QB Ren Hefley (Middle Tennessee): Hefley did not play in a 31-23 loss to Colorado State.

WR A.J. Henning (Northwestern): Henning had 5 catches for 29 yards and 1 touchdown, plus 3 carries for 23 yards, in a 37-34 win over Minnesota.

LB Nikhai Hill-Green (Charlotte): Hill-Green made 8 tackles, 1.5 tackles for loss, and 1 sack in a 22-7 loss to Florida.

CB George Johnson III (UMass): Johnson caught 2 passes for 37 yards in a 34-31 loss to New Mexico.

DE Aaron Lewis (Rutgers): Lewis made 3 tackles in a 31-7 loss to Michigan.

QB Cade McNamara (Iowa): McNamara completed 5/14 throws for 42 yards in a 31-0 loss to Penn State.

QB Joe Milton (Tennessee): Milton completed 18/31 passes for 209 yards and 2 touchdowns while also rushing 5 times for 89 yards in a 45-14 win over UTSA.

S Jordan Morant (Mississippi State): Morant made 5 tackles and 1 tackle for loss in a 37-30 loss to South Carolina.

S R.J. Moten (Florida): Moten made 2 tackles in a 22-7 win over Charlotte.

DE Eyabi Okie-Anoma (Charlotte): Okie-Anoma made 8 tackles, 1.5 tackles for loss, 1 sack, 1 forced fumble, and 1 quarterback hurry in a 22-7 loss to Florida.

DT George Rooks (Boston College): Rooks made 1 tackle and 0.5 tackles for loss in a 56-28 loss to Louisville.

CB Andre Seldon (New Mexico State): Seldon made 5 tackles and 1 pass breakup in a 20-17 loss to Hawaii.

CB Myles Sims (Georgia Tech): Sims made 10 tackles in a 30-16 win over Wake Forest.

LB Deuce Spurlock (Florida): Spurlock did not play in a 22-7 win over Charlotte.

RB Christian Turner (Indiana): Turner had 13 carries for 67 yards and 1 touchdown in a 29-27 win over Akron.

DE Taylor Upshaw (Arizona): Upshaw made 2 tackles, 2 tackles for loss, 2 sacks, and 1 forced fumble in a 21-20 win over Stanford.

TE Dan Villari (Syracuse): Villari made 1 catch for 11 yards in a 29-16 win over Army.

DE Julius Welschof (Charlotte): Welschof did not record any stats in a 22-7 loss to Florida.

LB Cornell Wheeler (Kansas): Wheeler made 3 tackles, 1 tackle for loss, and 1 forced fumble in a 38-27 win over BYU.


DE Collins Acheampong (Miami): Acheampong did not play in a 41-7 win over Temple.

LB Aaron Alexander (Michigan State): Alexander did not record any stats in a 31-9 loss to Maryland.

RB Tim Baldwin, Jr. (UMass): Baldwin did not play in a 34-31 loss to New Mexico.

DE Ethan Burke (Texas): Burke made 1 tackle in a 38-6 win over Baylor.

CB Te'Cory Couch (Miami): Couch made 3 tackles and 2 interceptions in a 41-7 win over Temple. He's now tied for #1 in FBS with 3 interceptions so far this season.

S Taylor Groves (Ole Miss): Groves did not play in a 24-10 loss to Alabama.

OLB Stephen Herron, Jr. (Louisville): Herron made 4 tackles and 2 quarterback hurries in a 56-28 win over Boston College.

LB Tyler Martin (UMass): Martin did not record any stats in a 34-31 loss to New Mexico.

DT Davonte Miles (Bowling Green State): Miles made 3 tackles in a 38-7 loss to Ohio.

TE Andrew Rappleyea (Penn State): Rappleyea did not play in a 31-0 win over Iowa.

S Myles Rowser (New Mexico State): Rowser made 6 tackles in a 20-17 loss to Hawaii.

DT Quintin Somerville (UCLA): Somerville did not play in a 14-7 loss to Utah.

DT Alex VanSumeren (Michigan State): VanSumeren did not record any stats in a 31-9 loss to Maryland.

DT Denver Warren (New Mexico State): Warren did not play in a 20-17 loss to Hawaii.

LB Raylen Wilson (Georgia): Wilson made 3 tackles in a 49-21 win over UAB.

WR Xavier Worthy (Texas): Worthy made 3 catches for 31 yards, returned 3 punts for 48 yards, and completed a pass for 35 yards in a 38-6 win over Baylor.


Don Brown (Head Coach, UMass): UMass fell to 1-4 after a 34-31 loss to New Mexico.

Jedd Fisch (Head Coach, Arizona): Fisch improved to 3-1 after a 21-20 win over Stanford.

Brady Hoke (Head Coach, San Diego State): Hoke and his Aztecs lost to Boise State and are now under .500 at 2-3.

Mo Linguist (Head Coach, Buffalo): Linguist lost to Louisiana-Lafayette by a score of 45-38. Buffalo is 0-4.

Scot Loeffler (Head Coach, Bowling Green State): Loeffler and his Falcons dropped to 1-3 with a 38-7 loss to Ohio.

Curt Mallory (Head Coach, Indiana State): Mallory and his Indiana State Sycamores are 0-3 and had a bye week this past weekend.

Jim McElwain (Head Coach, Central Michigan): McElwain and his Chips are now 2-2 after a 34-30 win over South Alabama.

Biff Poggi (Head Coach, Charlotte): Charlotte lost to Florida by a score of 22-7. Charlotte is now 1-3.

Rich Rodriguez (Head Coach, Jacksonville State): Jacksonville State is now 3-1 after a 21-0 win over Eastern Michigan.

Tyrone Wheatley (Head Coach, Wayne State): Wheatley dropped to 1-3 with a 41-7 loss to Truman State.


  1. Good for Andrel Anthony and AJ Henning. Neither were going to get this many touches in a Harball offense, and they're both making the most of it

    Cade is still Cade
    Joe is still Joe
    Addition by subtraction in both cases

    1. Put another W on the board for Joe over Cade. Flip that 2020 narrative upside down. Inaccurate and ineffective cade vs game manager Joe in a position to succeed. Love to see it.

    2. Game manager, lmao

      The Huepel Airraid has to game plan around QB1. Another slow start, and between the 2 & 3Q, eight consecutive incompletions ... against that highly tauted Roadrunner defense

    3. Flip the 2020 narrative upside down? McNamara was better than Milton that year. McNamara also led Michigan to a Big Ten championship in 2021 when Milton was sitting on the bench at Tennessee.

      Sometimes guys just take longer to mature. Or they just don't fit in a system. Michigan does not have a QB-friendly system. I think Sam Webb said that Michigan has 26 different kinds of footwork for QBs to learn. If you watch Tennessee - which is built around the Air Raid - it's a very simple system when it comes to footwork. It's heavily dependent on shotgun play action, and Mike Leach (who coached Josh Heupel at Oklahoma) always tried to keep footwork as simple as possible.

      Maybe the system at Michigan just didn't fit what Milton needed. Milton wouldn't be the first prolific Air Raid quarterback to struggle in other systems, whether it's at other schools or in the NFL. Of course, maybe Milton will have himself a career in the NFL. We'll see...

    4. I wouldn't call Milton prolific lol. I would call cade....not a good qb. Talk about a system propping a guy up - that's cade in 2021.

    5. No disagreement here, and I said as much after the Washington game

    6. @thunder. That's the narrative based on Rutgers. When Milton was playing with a broken thumb. But nobody is arguing against cade was better back in 2020, he won the job. Truth came out in 2022 and 2023. Milton is better.

      Air raid QBs are all over the NFL.

    7. Michigan system produced career years out of guys like rudock, speight, and McNamara who did nada away from it.

    8. Broken thumb is an excuse. Dude either placed the ball on the money, downfield (Indiana, after the injury), threw the ball into the chests of defenders (Wisconsin), or curled up in a little ball of fear (Rutger & PennSt)

      Milton himself admits to not watching film & preparing himself. Good on him, bc integrity is a start. But he wasn't awful bc of his thumb

    9. I'm agreeing with je93 here. Excuses are excuses. Cade apparently had some pre-existing knee issues that weren't diagnosed at Michigan. He also was a year behind Joe Milton and didn't get starter's reps. I can line up some excuses for McNamara to have been worse than Milton, too.

      For what Michigan needed, McNamara was better. There's no way to get around that.

      Now we're comparing Milton with noted offensive coach Josh Heupel to . . . McNamara with a national joke of an offensive coordinator in Brian Ferentz. If every Iowa QB kinda sucks, it's probably not the QBs. It's the coach.

      (P.S. I'm not arguing that McNamara is a stud. I think Iowa's offense is a terrible fit for his skill set, anyway. He's playing for a bad offensive coordinator in a system that doesn't fit his skills. This is what happens...)

    10. And here I was thinking it was a bone.

      Milton looked something between good and very good in the first game and for parts of the second game when he got hurt. His accuracy fell off precipitously by game 3. That's a big difference between pre and post injury. So I don't know if it's just an excuse when he struggled when he was wearing a wrap on his thumb. Check the stats, check the mgoblog evaluations, there was a big drop off. Maybe it was a coincidence maybe it wasn't.

      You can use the thumb or maybe you can look at injuries to others - especially on the OL - contributing to the offense falling off after game 3. Those were not good performances by Milton after he was hurt. But the TEAM did not play offense very well after that...except against Rutgers.

      But McNamara was better you say! Well, Milton was clearly outperformed post-injury by McNamara. That was very evident against Rutgers. Also (in garbage time) against Wisconsin. But we can't ignore the fact that McNamara stunk in his only start vs PSU. The worst QB performances of 2020 was by McNamara against PSU and Milton against Wisconsin. Neither could do anything when faced with a tough defense.

      So McNamara was very clearly better in one game vs Rutgers and Milton had the best game of the year vs Minnesota. Both stunk in starts against tough competition. The whole season was chaotic and random and both QBs delt with injuries. The verdict is a lot less clear than most remember because what everyone remembers is Rutgers and only Rutgers, in a season that was otherwise very dark after Minnesota.

      End result, taken in total, is very mixed and inconsistent if you stack up the stats of 2020 as a whole - both were not very good. McNamara's passer rating wasn't great 134 and he offered nothing in the run game. Milton's passer rating was even worse 125 but he produced on the ground.

      Again -- neither was good - nor should they have been given the 2020 context of roster upheavel especially along the OL. The RB room was the strongest in Michigan history but the WR, TE, and OL was a jumble.

      So now let's look beyond 2020. Both QBs proved themselves to be better than they showed in 2020 if given more help. Cade got managed on a great team in 2021 but clearly isn't up to the job at Iowa in 2023. Joe got passed by Hendon Hooker but won an Orange Bowl in 2022 and is getting managed on a TBD team in 2023.

      2020 - Edge to healthy Cade for taking injured Joe's job but context is blurry at best.
      2021 - Edge to Cade playing on a winning team while Hooker passed over Joe.
      2022 - Edge to healthy Joe winning an Orange bowl as an injury replacement while Cade lost his job and got hurt
      2023 - Massive edge to healthy Joe putting up solid numbers while managed at Tenn while healthy Cade flails at his hand pick school.

    11. "If every Iowa QB kinda sucks, it's probably not the QBs. "

      It can be both. None of Iowa's QBs have been good with one exception CJ Beathard and he produced some decent to good numbers at Iowa.

      The question is why Cade picked that school. Was it because it was his best option? Did the great offensive minds nationally pass on Cade? Was there a reason?

      Are we just going to continue to act like it's irrelevant that Milton and Heupel are paired up by mutual choice and Ferentz and McNamara are paired up by mutual choice. It's not spin the bottle.

    12. It's funny to me that playing for the offense that Cade chose for himself IS a viable explanation for him not producing... but a broken thumb is an excuse. Joe going to be playing a tougher schedule in a tougher environment, with tougher competition on his own roster. Yet he's got the easy road. Cade doesn't like competition and picked a place that he boasted would open up their offense for him. Yet his struggles are not his fault because it's too hard to do anything there.

      It's also funny to me that Cade - a kid given every privilege at every camp and private tutoring and a national recruit to Alabama and many other programs was somehow at a disadvantage to Joe - a kid from the muck who was lower rated as a recruit and notoriously raw coming out of high school. Because Joe is a year older. BTW Joe is 2 months older than Cade. Because Joe got starter's snaps (during COVID chaos) even though he wasn't named starter until late October.

      The takes, they are biased. The results, they point in the other direction.

    13. @ Lank 2:38 p.m.

      The point about excuses/injuries is that you never know what someone is going through. Yes, Milton supposedly had a thumb injury. Yes, McNamara supposedly had a knee injury. There's no way to gauge how someone is feeling or how healthy they are from the outside.

      That being said, Iowa QB numbers are never going to be as good as Tennessee QB numbers. Jason White played around the same time as Tom Brady, and White put up way better passing numbers than Brady. We all know Brady was a much better QB.

      If we're just comparing numbers between a Ferentz QB and a Heupel QB, we don't even need to know the year or the context. The Heupel QB's numbers are going to be (significantly) more impressive.

    14. I mean, there's hang nails and there are car crashes. You are theoretically correct that we can't tell from the outside how somebody feels inside but when a guy has a broken bone and his hand is wrapped up - that can affect play. And clearly it did. I'm not saying Cade was 100% healthy but the knee issue was something that he and the team were unaware of until it was discovered much later.

      On system, I hear you if we are talking about volume stats like yards or whatever but Cade just produced a game where he went 5/14 for 42 yards. This is coming off a game, against a MAC school, where he went 9/19 for 103 yards. His passer rating is 104 right now on the season. This is worse than any of the last 3 seasons by Spencer Petras! Nate Stanely had a passer rating between 130 and 140 for Iowa in 2018 and in 2019. You're acting like it's impossible to be good for Iowa and it's not.

      Moreover, you can say system all you want but Cade CHOSE THIS. For a guy who is supposedly a genius at reading the field pre-snap....this was a very very bad read.

      The excuse making here is coming in hot and heavy for Cade right now. He is not a good QB and, while I didn't think this at the end of 2021 I do now.

  2. McNamara was put in a position to succeed in 2021. Milton was not put in a position to succeed in 2020.

    This narrative has flipped, according to you two, in 2023.

    Joe is Cade and Cade is Joe.

    1. I don't know how to put this any better:

      Cade McNamara was what Michigan needed when they needed it. Milton was not.

      What these guys do for other schools is irrelevant to Michigan. If Joe Burrow stayed at Ohio State, there's no telling whether he becomes a national champion, record-holder, 1st round pick, etc. IMO, Burrow probably doesn't become those things because he doesn't have a chip on his shoulder to push him. Tom Brady wouldn't have become Tom Brady without experiencing the struggles he did at Michigan and dealing with them.

    2. "Milton was not put in a position to succeed in 2020" Who was? The season was played during a global pandemic

      Worst performances of the year, by QBR:
      4.5, Milton v PennSt (Cade 31)
      6.6, Milton v Wisconsin (Cade 96.9)
      17.7, Milton v Rutgers (Cade 85.9)

      It'd be hard to keep up with all the bad takes & lies, if not for Boxscores available on the world wide web

    3. @Thunder

      I think that Michigan is what Cade McNamara needed a lot more than Cade is what Michigan needed. We're seeing that now.

      Counter argument to Michigan needing Cade - how many other QBs could have been inserted on that roster for 2021 and is managed in a manner similar to Cade. Dylan McCaffrey maybe? Are we sure that Brandon Peters or Wilton Speight couldn't have done what Cade did in 2021?

      We don't know but having a better QB certainly could have helped. You're never going to buy this because you made a decision about Milton 4 years ago, but in a hypothetical world where a clearly superior QB in 2023 is managed the way Cade was managed in 2021 but with an added element of arm strength and running ability, perhaps we're talking about a 2021 national championship season on top of the Big Ten championship.

    4. @JE

      Yeah 2020 was a shitshow. I agree 100% on that and that's why I think whoever was going to start against PSU or Wisconsin was going to struggle in either case.

      As for the stats. Milton's mop up duty against PSU is not very relevant. Neither was McNamara's vs Wisconsin. Those games were over.

      Neither of these guys were great. Joe beat out Cade and then got hurt. Cade then outperformed Joe and, aside from Rutgers, didn't look like much of an upgrade against PSU.

    5. When you can't argue data, go with feelings ... they played on the same team, against the same defense, on the same day, at the same location. It wasn't a broken thumb that caused Joe to throw it RIGHT AT defenders, it was his lack of awareness & frozen feet in the pocket. You're asking why he got worse at MICHIGAN? The same reason he got worse w/ every start in 2021 and this year: it's a looong season. Preparing for different defenses takes a great deal of work & understanding of the position. You have to be able to move & slide up in the pocket, survey the field. You have to be calm & decisive. Joe has none of that, and Huepel hints (or says as much). Milton admits parts. The result is a staff managing around their QB, while waiting on the FR 5star to appear at least close to serviceable

      You're talking about a QB being "managed" Huepel's Airraid is currently getting 3 shots past the 1st Down marker per game ... everything else is screens, flats, and other low risk attempts. This isn't for Nick Sheridan, it's for a SIXTH year senior, third in the system

      Cade is Cade, BAD
      Joe is Joe BAD (and lost to Cade)

    6. Read back your narrative and plug in cade for Joe. Does it still work?

      Here in 2023...
      Joe is good.
      Cade is bad.

      Both are effective if managed and put around talent.

      2020 you have rutgers and bad vibes.

      All the data is in Joe's favor except Rutgers.

    7. What data?
      QBR: Cade > Joe
      TDs: Cade > Joe
      Compl%: Cade > Joe (I guess you got me there!)

      Joe is worse, and needs an offense planned around him to beat Austin Peay & UTSA

      Cade is bad. He needed an offense planned around him for a playoff run as a SO

      Cade was in place while JJ got ready. Joe is in place while Nico gets ready

    8. *oops, INT = Joe > Cade

      There's your leading data point

    9. Passer Rating: Cade 134 < Joe 144
      TDs: Cade 27 < Joe 34
      Compl%: Cade 61% > Joe 59% (I guess you got me there!)
      INTs: Cade 10 < Joe 7
      YPA: Cade 7.2 < Joe 8.2

      Up is down. Down is Up. JE's Joe narrative is IRL Cade narrative and vice versa.

    10. I get it JE, you want to talk about Rutgers 2020. Cade attempted more than half his passes on the season in that game. No matter how many times you repeat it, no one will argue with you that Cade was better than Joe against Rutgers.

      Then he stunk against PSU the very next week. QBR 31. Joe had 3 starts better than that and 2 starts worse.

      Then Cade came back in 2021, without any real competition beyond a freshman, and got managed HARD. Dropped a QBR of 16 against Washington. Settled into being managed and the offense adapted around his limitations but elevated by a friendly system for any QB to be efficient. A system that produced career years for transfers like Rudock, Speight, Peters, and McCaffrey, besides McNamara. But not Milton because a) Tenn is even more favorable for a QB and b) 2020 was a shit show and c) he played hurt in 2020.

      So Cade was managed and looked OK and now, same age as Joe, is awful.

      A few weeks ago you suggested we compare Cade to Petras and Joe to Hooker. That's hilarious to compare a 3rd round NFL pick to...not that. But nonetheless, Cade is doing even worse than Petras!

    11. We're nearing the end of two different roads and they are pointing in two very different destinations. You want to go back to 3 years ago when it looked like the roads would end up in opposite destinations but it's 2023 and there's nothing you and I can do about that fact.

    12. Lank: somethin somethin flip 2020
      also Lank: well since the data doesn't agree, let's conflate seasons

      You're all over the place. Cade v PennSt was not the worst game of the year; Joe had THREE games that were worse

      You want to discuss 2022? With no broken thumb, Joe played like sh:t two weeks in a row, and got benched. In 2023, they're playing him like he's Nick Sheridan 2008, against FCS & G5 teams. He sucks Lank, holding the job for a TrFR who isn't ready

      Does Cade suck? Yeah, but he's got a ring. "Cade chose Iowa," and Joe chose MICHIGAN. MICHIGAN benched him. Joe chose Tennessee, and Tennessee benched him. He's almost certain to be benched again

      Spin away, but that's the truth

    13. @JE

      "Cade v PennSt was not the worst game of the year; Joe had THREE games that were worse"
      Let me know who you are arguing with because it's not me.

      Here are the starting QB's QBRs to close the year: Rutgers 18, Wisconsin 7, PSU 31. Again - Cade will always have Rutgers 2020. We can never take that from him. Joe has the first 3 games of the year where his QBR was 92, 64, and 70.

      Moving on to not 3 years ago...

      Sure I'll discuss 2022. A picture is worth a thousand words:

      2023 - Joe Sucks and is almost certain to be benched?
      The stats say otherwise on the first. Guess we'll have to see on the second.

      More likely he's drafted by the NFL than he is benched.

  3. I think our coaches did a tremendous job building the offensive line in 2021 and 2022. None of them are day 1 or day 2 draft pick. And yet we are able to make the CFP semi finals behind a below-average qb in Cade.

    1. Exactly right. There are a lot of below average QBs who could have done that job and a lot of average QBs who could have done better.

      The real Cade is standing up now, after hand picking his destination. We see who is on the field, and he's happily showed us who he is off the field too - dissing Michigan, undermining McCarthy, running from competition, acting like a victim. Two tumbs down.

  4. While, famously around here probably, I got exercised over the assertion that Cade should have started in front of McCarthy on account of his previous year's performance and status as the incoming Qb, I do think he was much more than a game manager around here. He really did an outstanding job of efficiently running a complex offense. But the guys around you matter, and Cade had guys, everywhere, all of whom could play. He doesn't have that at Iowa. There is no Thunder and Lightning combo of backs to hand off to and run play action from, no Ronnie Bell always running open underneath. Alt is a fine tight end, but he was down the depth chart some and wasn't gonna break through here, injury or not. I don't think he starts at Iowa last year even. And for damn sure Cade's coordinator isn't in the same league as the guys calling plays for him at Michigan. Ok, ok he is in the same league, but not for long. I wish he had left in a different fashion, but I'm still not gonna slap him around for being inferior at the position. He's a solid Qb, he just ain't JJ McCarthy.

    I watch Milton run and continue to wish that he had gone and put in the time with the Juggs machine. I fully understand the allure of quarterbacking, having got to sniff the position a little back in the day, but he just isn't accurate as constantly as a guy has to be now days.


    1. I thought Cade was going to be the starter in 2022 but that was proved wrong. I also thought Cade was a solid QB in 2021 but... I think that's been proved wrong too.

      Cade 2020 - Awful vs PSU in his only start. Very good against awful Rutgers D.
      Cade 2021 - Heavily managed in ways we rarely see outside of freshman thrown in as injury replacements. Only threw when defenses stacked against the run, on a loaded roster.
      Cade 2022 - bad and then injured
      Cade 2023 - bad to awful

      I think we have to look at 2021 as the outlier here. The narrative arc of him beating out Milton and then rounding into a big ten champ QB sounds like a guy who is a strong QB. But Milton was hurt and totally ineffective by Rutgers and then transferred leaving Cade's only competition as a true freshman who Cade went to lengths to undermine anyway.

      The strongest argument for Cade might be that he held off Alan Bowman. Who to be clear is not a great QB but he is one that is good enough to start games at Texas Tech and Oklahoma State, just not one that is good enough to win those competitions authoritatively or elevate those teams with his play.

      Cade is a lot closer to Spencer Petras than JJ McCarthy.

    2. "I also thought Cade was a solid QB in 2021 but... I think that's been proved wrong too."

      Of the goofy stuff you have come up with Lanky, this one takes the cake. The games are played, the numbers are in, unless you have uncovered a new bunch of interceptions that were missed somehow, or touchdowns that weren't.

      The kid had a great season, won the conference, went to the final four or whatever they call the thing.

      That one is just plain crazy. I think it's fair to say he sucks presently if you're so inclined, I'm laying it off on a horrible offensive program. Hell, JJ would be looking crappy at Iowa. That's why good QBs don't go to Iowa to play for The Ferentzes.

    3. Best OL in the country, NFL receivers and TEs, Haskins, Corum, Edwards. The 2021 offense was stacked and the D was excellent as well. How many could have done what Cade did?

      Could Spencer Petras have done it?

    4. I don't even know why we're arguing about Cade McNamara at this point. Brian Ferentz has been a national joke for a long time, and that was exacerbated by his contract stipulation that Iowa must average at least 25.0 points per game this season. When McNamara committed to Iowa, everyone was like, "LOL of all places, why would you go to Iowa where the offense is notoriously sucky?"

      Now the offense is still sucky at Iowa, and some people are blaming McNamara.

      The problem isn't/wasn't McNamara, Petras, etc.

      Iowa's Yards Per Play since Brian Ferentz became OC:
      2017: #108
      2018: #91
      2019: #86
      2020: #86
      2021: #120
      2022: #129
      2023: #127

      They've never been above #86 in yards per play since he was hired six seasons ago. This has very little to do with McNamara.

      It's like if you have engine problems all the time and the mechanic keeps blaming the steering wheel.

    5. Interesting. That's Ferentz, now Huepel:
      2017: #8 (Mizzou)
      2018: #6 (UCF)
      2019: #7 (UCF)
      2020: #16 (UCF, COVID)
      2021: #18 (Tenn, benched QB)
      2022: #4 (Tenn)
      2023: #24 (Tenn, Joe Milton)

      It gets even more interesting when you break it down by passing ...good ol Joe drops the Vols down to Ferentz-Level, at 68 ... even before playing a ranked team (1 FCS, 1G5, P5worst VA and lol Florida)

    6. "Of all places why would you go to Iowa?"

      Exactly. I think there's a good chance it was because it was the best he could get. And that's a reflection of him.

      For a guy who was supposed to be a highly ranked recruit that ND and Alabama and Harbaugh all wanted out of High School to now have his best option be Ferentz. Well that might tell you something.

      I have to disagree with Thunder's take here. There's a BIG difference between being #86 and being #127. That's 40 spots. That's the difference between being Ohio State and Oregon State last year. I know which offense I'd rather face and it's not close.

      In Ferentz offense, Cade is doing not just worse than Nate Stanley (a fringe NFL roster guy) but also Spencer Petras (a well below average Big Ten QB). This is a guy who was supposed to be a Big Ten Championship caliber QB because, at Michigan, he was.

      What we are learning is that the 2021 team won despite Cade, not because of Cade.

    7. Ferentz with Stanley at QB: 5.2 ypp offense, 7.5 yards per pass
      Ferentz with McNamara at QB: 4.2 ypp offense, 5.4 yards per pass

      Nobody is arguing that Ferentz is awesome but the idea that McNamara is a blameless victim of circumstance and nothing he can do about it is preposterous.

      Cade is a BAD quarterback. The guy we see now is the same guy we saw against Washington and Georgia and PSU in 2020. The guy you saw in the middle of 2021 was propped up by elite coaching, elite OL, elite run game, NFL quality receivers, and an excellent defense.

    8. For the record I 100% agree that Josh Heupel is an excellent offense mind and that Brian Ferentz is very much not.

      Josh Heupel gets QBs like Hendon Hooker and Dillon Gabriel and produces good results with them.

      Brian Ferentz gets QBs like Spencer Petras and Padilla and produces poor results with them.

      So the question I pose to you all is -- why did Josh Heupel choose Joe Milton while Brian Ferentz chose Cade McNamara?

      Because I think that tells you something in the same way that being a player recruited by Alabama or Georgia out of high school tells you something as opposed to being recruited by Eastern Michigan or Akron. We generally say - the guy recruited to the SEC is better than the guy recruited to the MAC. It's not always true but 95% of the time it is.

      The gap between Tennessee and Iowa isn't that big - but maybe on offense it is.

    9. Your courtesy reminder that Huepel took 6 QBs in 3yrs, casting a big net for his Airraid

      *that's SIX, as in the number of seasons we have to judge Joe Milton at the position

    10. As he should coming into a new gig. I'm surprised it's not more. Harbaugh is still bringing in new QBs every year, typically more than 1, and he's very firmly established.

      I am not sure if you mean this as a knock on Milton or a complement. That's a lot of guys to beat out.

      Reminder that Milton started games for Harbaugh in 2020 and Heupel in 2021, 2022, 2023. We all know the history but he's, at worst, been competitive with these 5 other QBs, beating out every single one at one point or another before getting beat out by Hooker at Tenn. Plus the guys at Michigan that he beat out. While he was at Michigan the guys who started ahead of him were Patterson (for 2 years) and McNamara (for 1 game).

      Sitting behind Hooker and Patterson - there's no shame in that. But that one game where McNamara took over is obviously a huge black mark on his college career and led directly to his transfer.

    11. Again - Cade and Joe are the same age.

      Cade got every advantage to prepare for college including the thing some parents choose to do - hold their kids back from school to get a physical/maturity advantage over peers in their grade. In other words an extra year and a competitive advantage. This on top of private camps, etc. He's not a year a year younger, he's a few weeks off -- i.e., the same age.

      Milton got none of that. He was famously raw coming into college with rumors of being poorly coached in HS.

      But that's the past. Now Joe has had Harbaugh and Heupel.

      It's all about where the road ends, not where it started. It's 2023 and Joe is substantially outperforming Cade at a superior program, with tougher competition, better coaching, better results, and more NFL interest*.

      *some is more than none

    12. Did JH ever take 6 QBs over 3yrs? He took zero last year ...

      Milton has proven in two stops: boundless potential in a practice setting (no pressure, no hits, WRs covered by walk-ons) and that it does NOT translate (long-term) to live action ... 2020, 2021, 2023

      You said the worst game of the year was. Ade v PennSt. WRONG. Joe was worse three times, including PennSt

      Orange Bowl pic, against a former national power, not giving two sh:ts in a non-playoff setting. Where's Cade's B1G Championship pic? The pic after THE GAME?

      The Florida team that spanked Joe into embarrassment is getting run by .... mighty Kentucky

    13. Took 2 this year, Tuttle and bell. Year before, took 2 orji and denegal. Before that took 2 bowman and McCarthy. So, yes. You have to look all the way back to now to remember the last time.

    14. Bell was an athlete, and appropriately sent to the WR room. Neither Orji or Denegal have ever, or were ever considered to take meaningful snaps in a meaningful games, Bowman & Tuttle were both insurance policies as an experienced backup ... context matters, unless you're purposefully trying to mislead

    15. Lol. Typical JE when confronted with facts deny reality. Were all 6 tenn QBs unathletic freshman expected to be starters?

    16. Context matters but not the score of PSU when Milton came in, how many passes he attempted, or if he had a broken thumb.

    17. If they wanted, Michigan had Cade locked in as a starter for 4 years headed into 2021. They still took multiple guys because that's what coaches should do.

    18. Yes, context. Joe was dressed for every game. Never lost zip in his pass, but never showed accuracy either (to this day, even). JH took Tuttle bc the other guys were trustworthy for only ONE pass between them, after 17 games of opportunities ... Tuttle was just named backup, without a single pass attempt in Maize & Blue. That's important context

      Excuses & feelings is when thunder presents data YOU asked for regarding Edwards carries, and you come back with "he will eventually"

    19. LOL. You brought up all the guys Heupel took and now you're slicing and dicing all the guys Harbaugh took. You see them as night and day but they want the same thing and do the same thing. Common sense, but keep arguing against it.

      LOL at "excuses and feelings". I'll remind you the origins of this is me asking for data that backs up the feelings you and others are adamant are valid. Which I still haven't seen or found anywhere. I've pulled data to try to make the data point on Edwards apples to apples, to add to the discussion, but for you anything you don't like is picking cherries. Meanwhile, Joe Milton's 3 attempt day mopping up in garbage time against PSU 3 years ago is worth bringing up again and again. Sad.

    20. Yes, and everything I wrote about throse QBs is true, and has been discussed by MICHIGAN fans & media for the last three recruiting cycles

      You have data thunder gave you. For all your "research" you could easily go to the play by play and see WHY the ypc is as low as 2 for Edwards in dinner of these games, but you knew what you'll find. OR, you could watch a game

      It wasn't just the pass attempts against PennSt. WATCH THE GAME, he curled up in a little ball when given the opportunity for QB runs, including a sneak with a foot to go. Scared

      *you're not sad, you enjoy this

    21. Yes JE - you thought Milton was scared 3 years ago. We get it. You told him to follow along that path and transfer to D3 because that's the only place he would get a starting job. He proved you wrong. But stick to your guns...

      You don't have the data so you want to talk about your feelings. It upsets you that I would like to see boom/bust narrative backed up because you don't like your feelings challenged. Sorry about that.

    22. YES. Rather than sit on a bench in 2021 & 22, Milton desperately needed starter reps. Instead - in year SIX - his lowest QBR of the season is against the stingy secondary of ... Austin Peay. But hey, he's a starter, for now

    23. You HAVE data. You just don't like it. Even yesterday - despite his most productive day - Edwards was outperformed by the other RBs playing behind the same OL & going against the same Defense in the same game & same drives

      He's an athlete, and should be a schemed to an advantage, not thrown against a wall of cornhusks. Maybe Minnesota, but not Nebraska (or BG, UNLV or ECU & Rutger)

    24. You don't have data to support your narrative.

      If we are going to talk about this year -- where is the BOOM? Edwards has not broken a single long run. So how can he be a boom/bust back? If you just go by this year's stats so far Edwards isn't a good RB. We have more info than that.

      If we are talking about last year -- give me an apples to apples comparison and remove the long runs from both guys. Not just one guys. Show me the success rate. Show me how they do on carries under 20 yards. Show me how often they get stuffed for fewer than 2. Show me...something.

      Again - I'll I'm doing is expressing skepticism and a desire for data that hasn't been provided. I've said repeatedly - maybe it's true that edwards is less effective on most "other" runs. I just doubt it.

      Even if it is, it doesn't really matter. HR hitters who strike out a lot can be just as valuable as guys who more consistently hit singles and doubles. In the end it's the total production that counts.

    25. @JE

      Oh so you still want to argue about Milton? Even after another solid game yesterday while Cade flailed again. Hahaha. OK.

      It looks like the Milton vs Cade battle will have to continue on for another year. Cade's done for this year and will probably be back for his next college football season (at age 24). His dad will like him having that advantage. I don't know if Cade is gong to wise up and leave Iowa but he'll get that opportunity if he wants it (well, if he's wanted that is). Maybe he should try D3 LOLOL

      Alrighty lets get to the numbers:

      Here are Miltons QBRs for every start at Tenn over the last 2 years

      *While we're here, before Milton got Wally Pip'd by Hooker his two starts for Tenn in 2021 were not bad QBRs either: 77, 46

      That's --- pretty good. Not great, not awful. Just pretty good. Joe is rarely great and rarely awful. Almost boring. The Joe we saw in 2020 had a QBR game of 92 one game and 7 another. (Minn and Wisc). But "Joe is Joe" is what you will say...

      Good picking of cherries with Austin Peay though! You found his worst game very well.

      Here are the QBRs for Cade's starts in the last 2 years

      Not once has Cade topped a QBR of 50. Joe has done it 5 out of 7 times. And he's doing it against better competition since most of these Cade starts have come against cupcakes.

      I know I know it's not his fault he was forced to play for Brian Ferentz!

      But keep in mind that QBR is an efficiency stat. It's not dependent on throwing a lot of times or throwing bombs down field. It's about being successful on a down to down basis.

      Spencer Petras managed to top a QBR of 50 five times last year in 11 complete games. He was doing it about half the time. Cade in his 5 starts this year didn't do it once, and that's through the soft part of the schedule.

      Milton is unexceptional but effective. Cade is BAD.

      Unless Cade has a breakout 6th year at age 24 -- Milton will have had a better career and will go down as a better QB.

    26. That's the point Lank, there's been no BOOM ...

      I'm the guy who said Cade wasn't any good. Go back to the Washington game, when you argued against that ... but Joe still sucks. He's bottom half of QBs, with his QBR of 56 ... it's not just Austin Peay; last night he threw TWO more picks, one was horrendous, and finished with a QBR of 45. 54 against Florida. Two bad conference opponents, and an average of 49 QBR ... This, in year SIX

    27. @JE

      That contradictory. A boom/bust back with no boom is just a bust. So the narrative doesn't hold up.

      Milton has 23 TDs to 3 INTs since 2020. Throwing "TWO more picks" is one way to characterize things when the "more" is relative to...1.

      You want to slice and dice now to just the 2 conference games. That's fine - 55 and 45 QBR is not great but far from awful. Passer rating of 126 and 143 is not great but far from awful.

      That's Jake Rudock territory. Jake Rudock had 5 games below 60 QBR in 2015 in year 5. And he got drafted.

      We can definitely play the THEY BOTH SUCK game. But Cade is not on Milton's level.

    28. It's not contradictory. Edwards has been lacking the boom this year. Last year & 2021 he had it, and did so frequently. I think he'll get it back when a big hole opens up, or they scheme him into a big play. Right now, he's missing opportunities. That's not a "sky is falling" concern, but an observation. We know it's there, but he just isn't getting it done. What Edwards has never been though is a bulldozer. We saw (and heard) it from Corum & Mullings Saturday. We even got it from Franklin(!). But that's not Edwards thing

      Three picks in two conference games Lank, and neither were good defenses ... two of those picks looked like a middle schooler chucked it. You didn't like when I brought up FCS Austin Peay, or his sub-50 qbr THIS year, his SIXTH year or the two conference games ... that's not cherry picking, that's Joe being Joe. Still.

    29. Milton's rankings so far this year:

      #57 COMP%
      #64 PER
      #69 YPA

      He's literally a middle-of-the-pack QB (statistically) and has played zero games against ranked teams.

      He is what he is. Maybe he plays better down the stretch. Maybe not. Right now he looks like a ho-hum QB despite having a highly regarded offensive coach. Last year Hendon Hooker had a higher COMP% (by 6%), a higher YPA (by 2.0 yards), and a higher PER (by 36 points).

    30. @JE

      You said Corum wasn't a bulldozer either. You thought we'd miss Haskins and then you thought we'd miss Corum. Because Harball. But we didn't and we haven't.

      No RB is breaking long runs without help from his blockers. Edwards is no different than Corum in that way.

    31. @Thunder

      I agree that Milton is middle of the pack statistically and not as good as Hendon Hooker.

      Did I say he was better than Hooker?

      Hooker was a 3rd round pick and a Heisman finalist. I think it was JE but maybe it was you who argued that Hooker was bad and therefore Milton losing out to him was bad. (It's always something to paint Milton in the worst light possible). I told you Hooker was good and getting beaten out by him was no great shame -- this was back in 2021.

    32. "not great but far from awful"

      That is what Milton is. That's not the story when he was run out of town after 2020 and told his only hope to start was to play at D3. He was supposed to be awful.

      It turns out that Cade McNamara is the player that is awful. If we're comparing ex-QBs, Cade is closer to Alan Bowman than Joe Milton. Well that's not fair to Bowman - he's not running away from competition.