Sunday, September 22, 2024

Michigan 27, USC 24

 

Kalel Mullings (image via ESPN)

A win is a win. I always try to keep things in perspective. Herm Edwards famously said "You play to win the game," and Michigan won the game. The Wolverines are 3-1 and their primary goals are still within play: win the Big Ten, beat your rivals, make the College Football Playoff, and win a national championship. Sometimes you win ugly, and sometimes you win pretty. It might help put things in perspective that star tight end Colston Loveland missed the entire game with an arm injury and Will Johnson was absent at the end of the game. This just happened to be an ugly victory, but oh well.

Hit the jump for more.


The Alex Orji offense is exactly what we thought it was going to be. I'll be the first to admit that I predicted Orji to be the starting quarterback with 1,900 passing yards, 16 touchdowns, and 7 interceptions. It's right there in the season countdown post. But then the season started with Davis Warren getting the nod at QB, and Michigan didn't trust Orji to throw the ball more than about 3 yards downfield at any point in the first couple games. And this game looked exactly like a coaching staff who went into the second half of Penn State in 2023 and ran the ball 32 straight times. The issue with that was PSU had to respect J.J. McCarthy's passing ability, because he was on his way to being a first round NFL draft pick. Against USC, the Trojans had zero reason to respect the throwing ability of Orji, so they could commit their resources to stopping the run. Luckily, USC is soft. But this was as paltry a passing effort as you get in college football. Orji completed 7/12 passes for 32 yards, 0 touchdowns, and 0 interceptions. He ran 13 times for 33 yards, which is fine, but he's a bruising runner and not a breakaway guy. There are no Denard Robinson-like runs coming, just some 5- to 15-yarders on occasion.

Kalel Mullings is a beast. You watched the game. I don't even need to say this. After a 15-carry-, 153-yard, 2-touchdown performance against Arkansas State last week, Mullings ran 17 times for 159 yards and 2 touchdowns this week. He had a 53-yard breakaway touchdown to open the scoring, on which he showed incredible vision to squeeze through the hole. And then he had what will go down as a classic Michigan run when he dragged a defender five yards, spun out of a couple tackle attempts, and ran 63 yards before being pushed out of bounds. He also lined up in the I-formation and squeezed through a tiny hole made by backup tight end Zack Marshall and fullback Max Bredeson for the game-winning touchdown.

Donovan Edwards is still fast. For as much as I like Mullings as RB1 at this point, the speed of Donovan Edwards is impressive. With the ball in his hands, he just glides so smoothly in the open field. Mullings has been tracked down from behind a couple times in the past couple weeks, which is expected for someone who's 6'2" and 233 pounds. But there aren't many guys who have the extra gear of Edwards. He broke away for a 41-yard touchdown in this one, which would have been good from 300 yards because he has great long speed, and finished with 14 carries for 74 yards and the 1 score. I'll be interested to see how fast he times at the NFL Combine next year.

Michigan's OL made USC's DL look good. I think Michigan's offensive line has taken baby steps to getting better over the past couple weeks, but the linemen look downright confused sometimes by some pretty simple looks. For the second time in the past three games, right tackle Evan Link took a 0.0 in pass protection from PFF, and it was well deserved. He's absolutely lost when it comes to pass protection. He did have some nice blocks in the run game, but he came out of the wash as Michigan's lowest graded player, and starting center Dominick Giudice was just one spot ahead of him. It makes it even more impressive that Mullings can be this successful as a runner when two of his starting linemen are literally the two worst graded players on the entire offense.

Michigan's DL made USC's OL look silly . . . to start. Early in the game, the Michigan defensive linemen - especially Josiah Stewart - made USC's offensive line look totally overmatched. Stewart had 4 tackles, 3 tackles for loss, and 2 sacks in this game. His speed and power are very impressive for someone listed at 6'1" and 245 pounds. He and bookend edge Derrick Moore were the top two graded players according to PFF, and they were living in USC's backfield. But depth, conditioning, and time of possession continue to catch up to Michigan. If the offense can't sustain drives, the starting defensive linemen get tired from being on the field. There was a notable difference as the game wore on how much USC's running game started to pick up. Both of USC's running backs ended up averaging 7.7 yards per carry, with starter Woody Marks going for a 65-yard touchdown on his way to a 100-yard day. On a side note . . . I really like Marks as a running back. He's tough, he can catch the ball, he can break tackles, and he made a really great play chasing down Michigan DT Kenneth Grant and ripping the ball out of Grant's hands after Grant recovered a fumble.

Michigan's secondary is alternately great and terrible. I don't know how to feel about Michigan's secondary at this point. Will Johnson had his second pick-six of the season with a 42-yard return on which he again jumped a short route, just like he did against Fresno State. Opposite corner Jyaire Hill graded out as Michigan's third-best defender with a score of 85.5. Nickel corner Zeke Berry ranked 20th out of 21 defenders despite making a couple very nice plays; at one point, though, he was lined up over the #2 receiver to the field and blitzed, leaving no one to cover his man for an easy Miller Moss-to-Jay Ford touchdown pass. There wasn't even a safety anywhere close to pick up Ford, so it was obviously a bust . . . but was Berry supposed to blitz, or was a safety not lined up correctly? My guess is that bust was on Berry. The combo of Hill and Makari Paige was beaten by a hole shot in cover two for a touchdown, and Paige played the ball terribly; he should have destroyed the ribs or raked the arms of Ja'Kobi Lane as the ball was completed, but neither happened and Paige was just way too slow reacting to the route. To top it off, Johnson ran up the tunnel at one point and did not return to the game.

What does this mean going forward? Michigan can't expect to go the rest of the season while throwing for 32 yards in a game, at least not if they want to win. The passing effort was abysmal, and so was the pass blocking. It should be somewhat embarrassing for the program that the best guys they can throw out there at quarterback are a walk-on who throws 3 interceptions against Arkansas State and a guy who's not allowed to throw the ball downfield. That being said, if Orji is the guy going forward - and these two quarterbacks aren't just stand-ins for the injured Jack Tuttle - then Michigan needs to incorporate more option elements with Orji. There needs to be a triple option package, more RPOs, etc. I was surprised to see the Wolverines come into this game with a game plan that didn't involve more opportunities to put defenders in a bind. It will probably be enough to beat Minnesota - which lost by two touchdowns to Iowa yesterday - but the better teams down the stretch are going to take advantage.

75 comments:

  1. Great win, but I am probably less confident about this staff after the game than before.
    1- I have been watching UM football since Franklin was handing off to Bell and I don't think I have ever seen an individual effort like Mullins. Brady v Bama but he throwing to great WR's. I watched Hershel Walker carry at team like this where everyone knows he is going to run it and they still can't stop it. But UM? Maybe Haskins but he was running through huge holes against 2021 OSU. Edwards against MSU pulling in jump ball after jump ball, 2004 maybe
    2- I have to question this staff. Before the final drive Mullins has 9 carries. this is game 4. WTF are you looking at! What other egregious player evaluations are they making? The OL is a disaster. We are running 3-4 WR sets for some GD reason. QB development or lack there of. Using Edwards like he is Earl Cambell. Letting he best RB in college football get 9 touches and then only use him when you are desperate.
    3- Ed Warinner- He fixed a terrrible OL overnight in 2017, recruited first rounders, put together the best UM OL probably ever in 2019 and was canned in the 2020 clean out. Since then, even though 2021, 2022 were good, they steadily have been worse, and those guys were all Ed's recruits/finds. Our 2020-23 OL recruiting has either been trash or we are not developing.
    4- Campbell- Dude is 5 pay grades about where he should be. A position coach at best or an analyst.

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    1. Moore is going to have to insert himself into the offense. He may have been letting Campbell run on his own, but it'll be in everyone's best interest for Moore to get more involved.

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    2. That's an interesting take on Warriner. The same can be said of Gattis. Outside of a couple be pulled in, our WR production has been straight up awful

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    3. Great win but kinda feels like 2008 win against Wisconsin. Not repeatable and a result of a lot of high variance plays that work out in UM's favor. There was a pick 6 in that one if I remember. Thompson, the slowest guy on defense per RR. Threet running for 60 yards on a keeper.
      Hope I am wrong.

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    4. @ Anonymous 2:05 p.m.

      I think it was similar in some ways with plays that aren't necessarily repeatable. You can't get a pick-six every week, and you can't expect your *cough* backup *cough* RB to break off two 50+ yard runs every week, either. But that Michigan team was terrible in 2008 and beat a good Wisconsin team, while this team has some nice pieces.

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    5. LOL Minter's Monsters,

      It seems you think Warriner is the real hero here and Sherrone is riding his coattails to glory.

      What's the great Ed Warriner up to now? I assume coaching in the NFL or maybe a top flight college program?

      How'd the team do after Warriner was let go? I assumed they very quickly fell off and struggled to run the ball?

      I'll give credit to Warriner -- he turned things around at Michigan but remember the context -- he turned them around because Tim Drevno was not good at his job.

      BTW Ohio State ALSO got better after Warriner left there.

      Give Sherrone the credit that's due to him. He's a rookie head coach and will go through some learning but he thrived as the TE coach, the OL coach, the OC, and the fill-in HC. He's earned his spot, despite his youth, and that's why Harbaugh and everyone else so strongly endorsed him.

      Nobody is going to be able to replicate Harbaugh, a top 5 coach on the planet with is an alumni AND an NFL player AND strong family ties to the school. But let's give Sherrone a chance instead of crapping on him, pining for some guy coaching at FAU.

      Sherrone just beat the #11 ranked team in the country, an elite blue blood with plenty of NFL talent on the roster....with 32 passing yards. Don't hate congratulate.

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  2. Yeah, not the prettiest, but I have a sense they'll build on this win. Had they lost, it might have been difficult to keep the players believing they could win games like this. So, good for them.

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    1. Yeah, if Michigan had lost this game after being a total mess in the third (and much of the fourth) quarter, I think the team's mindset might be vastly different. A team of Michigan's caliber should not be going an entire quarter with like -6 yards. It was terrible play calling, terrible execution, etc. I wish I had never seen that quarter of football.

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    2. You already saw worse -- in the 2nd Quarter against Texas.

      10 plays for 25 yards including a fumble and an INT handing the ball to Texas with a short field.

      Outscored 0-17 in that quarter. Game over. At halftime.

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  3. "The Alex Orji offense is exactly what we thought it was going to be"
    Up to last week maybe, but even before the camp hype M fans here & across the internet swore Orji was Him. He's even worse than the most pessimistic expectations as a passer (but far more a quality team guy than hoped). Trust the coaches: there's a reason he didn't piss before this year

    "Luckily, USC is soft"
    Welcome to the B1G! What was it, six trojans banged up?

    "With the ball in his hands, he just glides so smoothly in the open field"
    The Don is an incredible talent. But as has been said repeatedly, he's not a Harball back. Give him a mix of touches - including running between Tackles - but get creative and use him in space!

    Our pass protection is just awful. Whoever thought our backup OL could start on most teams was just flat out wrong ... not great I'm the run game either, but luckily RBs do matter!

    Defense was great, but agree that there were plenty of coaching points, including more bad tackling & blown coverage

    "What does this mean going forward?"
    Enjoy every win; there not be many. We could lose at home to the Gophers, then have our D & Run game travel well to Seattle (I'll be there!). Just enjoy it

    GO BLUE


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  4. So Thunder, what's your gut tell you here? Are you buying Michigan stock, selling, or holding?

    For me, I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm thinking at least some of this is learning curve for Sherrone. I think he's still figuring how much to delegate, and how much to stay close to.

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    1. I'm holding. I think the run game is coming together a little bit. I didn't expect the OL to be as bad as it was to start the year, but I do think that's something that can improve with time spent on task together. I predicted a 9-3 season and I don't really see anything from this game that changes it, at least not much.

      The passing game is what it is. Michigan isn't going to be a good passing offense this season, and I think Loveland is going to be criminally underutilized if Orji remains the QB. Which is really too bad. He might end up like Nico Collins, one of the top WRs in the NFL (statistically) who was just never used to a maximum level in college.

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    2. This is a serious question -- if Campbell and Moore are interested in helping Orji develop a serviceable passing game (and I assume they are), then wouldn't Loveland play a big role in that? The wide receivers seem to have trouble getting separation, and the offensive line has pass protection issues, but a big target like Loveland utilized in a short passing game (so the ball can come out quickly) would be, I would think, part of the plan. I'm not a football expert, but one possible downside is TE crossing routes and such runs the risk of interceptions if the ball is poorly thrown. Which leads me to wonder if Orji's problem is a true inability to be accurate, or a tendency to be inaccurate under game-time duress. I'm thinking the latter, because if he was just mechanically inept at throwing the ball, he wouldn't have been in the QB competition in the first place. There must be *something* there.

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    3. I don't think Orji will complete enough passes to get full utilization of Loveland. But Loveland will help the offense tremendously and you can probably tell Alex to put a little more air under the ball and let Loveland go up and win some jump balls when the opportunity arises. That situation is the kind where you can put in a TE to help Link pass protect and address that issue too.

      Orji is Orji but you can't pass if you can't protect either. We saw that for the first 3 quarters of the texas game too.

      I wouldn't expect to pass for fewer than 35 yards again, but I do expect a game or two of throwing for fewer than 100 again.

      Michigan has won this way before. For those of you who are too young to remember -- look up the last few Bo teams with Michael Taylor at QB. There's some similarities to this team including the big bruising running back.

      Anyway, I don't think we can judge anyone too harshly for how Loveland is used after a game where Loveland didn't play. That's our best weapon on offense and he's out. And we still won the game!

      I'm curious what other fans think the over/under on 100+ yard passing days for Orji is the rest of the year.

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    4. These Two Jabronies make Taylor look like Peyton Manning.
      They are worse than any Bo lead option offense QB's. Franklin to Leach to Wangler-S.Smith-Harbaugh-D Smith-Taylor-back to D Smith.
      Smith did throw 7 int against MSU, which is beyond unbelievable. You would think after 3 you would either bench him and just run it out. He did win a RoseBowl and played very well, after they corrected his vision for color blindness.
      All of them are all better by miles.

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    5. I dunno, 1-0 with a upset win over a top 15 team seems like a good start. We'll see.

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  5. Kalel to the Victors!

    What a tremendous game. I've never heard the big house so loud in person. My ear drums were sore the next day, almost like going to a concert. The crowd noise seemed to affect USC too. The Big House has changed from a few decades ago quite a bit.

    USC fans showed up big in Ann Arbor and were, in my experience, universally fun and happy to be their even though they lost.

    With the bright sun, stripe out, electric atmosphere, and two iconic programs on the field going toe to toe -- college football doesn't get much better than that.

    If you can't enjoy a win like that, I don't know what to tell you. We know this isn't a national championship team. We knew that in the offseason. We hoped the defense could reload but we knew the offense had to rebuild and would be below our standard at a couple spots at least. But this game -- this is how you turn a 7-5 season into 8-4, or 8-4 into 9-3. This might have been the high point of the year and if so enjoy the day.

    What I saw was a defense largely getting on track. Yes, they had to defend too many possessions and yes, they had too many busts. They're also playing some guys still who probably should not be out there (like McBurrows) against a top 10 offense. But guys like Guy, Benny, Hausman, Berry, Hill, Hillman, and Hall are stepping up big time. And the stars are playing like stars. It's incredibly fun to watch this DL do what it does.

    Offense is a problem but we knew it was a problem when we head about Warren, Giudice, and LInk. We knew it was a problem in the Spring. We knew when the Portal produced nothing at QB, WR, and TE besides a WR from Youngstown Sate. But Saturday -- well, we saw some solutions emerge.

    Orji will continue to be criticized but I think it was pretty clear that he brought a huge element to the run game. On Mullings first run, he was untouched. It was well blocked was the biggest thing but you've also got all the linebackers flowing to Orji. It's not a playaction pass, but it has the same outcome -- you're drawing second level defenders to a run threat that isn't being used...and boom TD.

    Orji doesn't have to be Denard to what he did a bunch of times on Saturday - keep the ball moving forward on schedule and convert 1st downs.

    Bottomline - Orji's legs do more for our RBs than Warren's arm. Balance is important, but we're trying to cobble together the best we can do here. There were some very nice playcalls in this game - kudos to Moore/Campbell and company. Let's not forget that this is a top 20 team we just faced.



    Kalel! Just an iconic run on that 63 yarder from Kalel. I used to argue this back in the Deveon Smith days with Thunder -- tackle-breaking is another way to make plays. Speed is great in the open field, and if your OL makes the holes for you (as they did for Don's long run, though Don also had a great cut on that one) you can emphasize it, but if your blocking is inconsistent it sure is nice to have a guy who can grind it out and get the tough extra yards and sometimes just shake free of multiple dudes through sheer strength of body and will.

    Don vs Kalel? I like em both! Don played very well up until the fumble. I believe it's the first of his career (?) so it's hard to be mad at him like it's hard to be mad at Blake and Kalel when they fumbled in huge moments, but man are those fumbles frustrating. You can't fumble there Don!!! I know he knows. But the contrast between that play -- pretty much coughing up the game to USC and Kalel's game-saving run was quite stark. The RBs should keep splitting the duties IMO, but I'm done underestimating Kalel Mullings. Hell of a player and just so fun to watch. If someone wants to tell me Mullings should play more snaps than Edwards well then I'll just smile and concede the point. Kalel is getting it done. Can't take this game away from Kalel and can't take it away from us fans.

    GO BLUE!

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    1. A couple of heros not getting enough love after this game. Max Bredeson is up there. This was a hard hitting game and Max was a big part of that. HE's going to get overpowered at times when asked to be a TE blocking DL but get him in space and with some momentum behind him he does work. Zack Marshall, Hogan Hansen, and Jalen Huffman -- welcome to the show kids. With Loveland and Kelin hurt these kids had to step in. I don't know how great they'l grade out but it was a big time moment to step in to.

      Benny is playing so well. He's lost in the shuffle of Graham/Grant but he has made a big leap. Hill really had some great moments and thank goodness we had Hall ready waiting in the wings when Johnson went down. USC was a test for our secondary and while we had our share of struggles it seemed like the CBs held up well. You can see the holes on the defense getting patched up and strengthened as the season moves on and the all new coaching staff figures out what they have.

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    2. Well I am torn. No doubt Orji opens up the run game a bit and offers more potential for growth of the offense but the total lack of passing also hinders the run game. The lack of int's helps, but the total lack of any passing really hurts the offense. And while Michigan moved the ball at times, almost all of that (save the last drive) was before USC adjusted to Michigan. Michigan was completely shut down after that. Fortunately the defense scored a TD. On the balance, if that's all they are going to let Orji do, I think I have to favor putting Davis Warren back in and hope he can limit turnovers. But keep working with Orji to develop some passing attack.
      Also, I am surprised that A Walker can't see the field to at least be a field stretcher for Orji. Heck, on 3rd and 8, since we are not getting a first down, send Walker keep, let Orji throw it 45 yards and hope. If not, it's an okay punt.

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    3. I don't see any evidence it hindered the run game. Like -- it's logical that it would hinder things, but you've still got to cover the receivers that are out there. It doesn't matter if it's Warren or Orji back there - opposing DCs are going to live with playing the WRs 1 on 1 and send extra guys to the frontline. At least with Orji you have to respect the rush threat, so that's opening holes for Mullings, Edwards, and WR handoffs at the line.

      I don't think it's a coincidence that Michigan went from 3.5 YPC against Texas to 6.1 YPC against USC. Call it the Orji effect. Obviously, can't put that on one thing, I agree with Thunder that the OL improved and the last big Mullings run was him making an exceptional play, but some of it is credit to the QB. Yes, the one who can't pass very well at all.

      I do think they need to develop the pass attack but we also have to acknowledge that our best pass catcher was out.

      But yeah Blue in NC -- let's see some arm punts up there in obvious passing downs. Even if you don't catch it you might draw the PI. If we're going to throw up arm punts, they should be to Loveland or Klein. Bell, Morris, and even Moore seem to be well ahead of Walker.

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    4. @ Lank 12:38 p.m.

      I don't think it's a coincidence that Michigan's YPC went up from Texas to USC, either, but I've been told that YPC doesn't matter.

      Also, Texas is a national championship-caliber team, and USC is not. Texas is #39 in yards per carry allowed, and USC is #115. And that Texas number isn't inflated by having played Michigan, because its other three opponents have averaged 3.69, 3.33, and 3.28 yards per carry, while Michigan was at 3.48 against them.

      It's also probably not a coincidence that Michigan's yards per passing attempt went from 6.2 against Texas to 2.7 against USC.

      And as for Orji himself...when je93 and I (and others) were sounding the alarm bells about Orji not being allowed to throw the ball last year, you were saying that was just a coincidence and it just wasn't part of the game plan or whatever. Now he threw for the fewest yards at Michigan since at least 1996.

      So yes...not allowing Orji to throw the ball in 2023 was a sign of things to come.

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    5. "Speed is great in the open field ... you can emphasize it, but if your blocking is inconsistent it sure is nice to have a guy who can grind it out and get the tough extra yards and sometimes just shake free of multiple dudes through sheer strength of body and will"

      1oo% ... RBs do in fact matter!

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    6. @BlueinNC
      Orji does open up the run, but how much & for how long is debatable. SC - with a soft PAC12 defense - still kept us to zero 2nd Half first downs until the last drive ... less than 1oyds ... it's not too difficult for a decent defense to stop a one dimensional offense

      We need Tutle. Not because he's good but because we need 'enough' to threaten downfield passes, which our two feel good story QBs are not doing





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    7. Orji "opened up the run" against a highly questionable defense, and it still only netted 20 points since Will Johnson scored on a pick-six.

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    8. Yes, that was my point above that Orji does open up the run game initially but once USC adjusted, the run game was largely bottled up except for the Mullings explosion on the last drive. And that's with USC's suspect defense. There are likely many better defenses yet to come. I hope that the coaches will adapt if they are going to play Orji, because I don't think the current offense with him is sustainable going forward. Maybe with Loveland back and a few deep shots we can scrap together an offense but that second half was ugly. I was happy with the result and the D really rose to the occasion but let's be clear Michigan was fortunate to win that game.

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    9. Eh, Don doesn't fumble or kg doesn't get stripped and maybe it ends more like 27-13. USC was fortunate to score two tds on a short field after turnovers. It was an intense game between two top 20 teams. Breaks went both ways.

      Ypc is a useful team stat. Nobody said otherwise.

      Orji win the game in his first start and the offense looked better than it had all season. Sorry if that's upsetting to some folks, but either you expected doom and gloom with orji or you didn't. If you did this is an expectation elevating game. If you didn't well I'm not sure what got your hopes up, but congrats.

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    10. USC highly questionable d held LSU to a season low points, which our offense matched

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    11. @ Lank 1:24 a.m.

      Yes, breaks went both ways. It's still not a great performance offensively. Michigan had 32 passing yards total, and that wasn't by choice. The passing game was bad.

      YPC vs. Arkansas State: 6.84
      YPC vs. USC: 6.30

      YPP vs. Arkansas State: 7.02
      YPP vs. USC: 5.55

      The offense looked better against Arkansas State than it did against USC. Michigan had open receivers, the QB was completing 11/14 passes, and the running backs were gaining yards in chunks.

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    12. Did you expect the offense to look better against USC than Arkansas State? I gotta call BS on the framing here.

      I think the relevant comp here is Texas, not Ark State. For as much as they struggled in the the 3rd and most of the 4th quarter against USC -- and they absolutely did struggle, doing nothing on 5 straight drives in that half -- it was worse against Texas.

      The numbers against Texas looked atrocious through 3 quarters. Then Texas backed off in the 4th with the game decided. Texas was 128 yards on the last 2 drives, 156 on the 8 drives before that. Michigan got nothing on the first 5 drives of the second half -- but the first half still happened, and so did the last series where Kalel played hero. They got the job done. All in all a massive upgrade relative to Texas even if you ignore the turnover difference (3 to 1)

      No, USC was not a great offensive performance but it was also not bad. In totality, it was just a solid game overall. Given what we saw in weeks 1 to 3, that's pretty encouraging and especially for a first start at QB with our best offensive player out (and then his backup too).

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    13. Let's excise the last drives from Texas and USC as outlier special events.

      offene vs Texas: 8 drives, 206 yards, 6 points, 3 turnovers
      offense vs USC: 11 drives, 231 yards, 14 points, 1 turnover

      Michigan's offense was better in week 4 than week 2, despite missing Colston Loveland. Primarily that's because we got explosive gains from the running backs because Orji was presenting a threat that Warren did not present.

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    14. Going back to objective measurements, here are the offensive performances per PFF for this year:

      1. Arkansas State 83.6
      2. Fresno State 73.4
      3. Texas 64.8
      4. USC 58.9

      If Michigan held its 5.55 yards per play for the entire season and not just the USC game, it would rank #92 nationally.

      It was a bad offensive performance. There was nothing accomplished in the passing game, and Michigan used a few big plays to make up for a lot of weak ones.

      There's a difference between Michigan doing enough to get the win (yay!) and Michigan having a good offensive performance (meh).

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    15. Yes, Orji presents a threat (with his legs) that Warren does not present.

      Warren presents a threat (with his arm) that Orji does not present.

      Again...logic only works if it can be applied both ways. And if it's not logical, then it's only feelings.

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    16. I hear your point and agree with your larger point but, again, the offense produced more against USC than Texas.

      The scoreboard tells the story that it was NOT a bad offensive performance. 20 points is respectable. Texas game (6 points until the last drive and 3 turnovers) was not.

      I don't know what the PFF score represents for a game but that doesn't match with the scoreboard or what I watched on the field. We were more productive and the results were better on offense.

      Arkansas State and Fresno State aren't on the same level as Texas or USC. I think that part is pretty obvious.

      Orji and Warren are close enough to compete with one another so yeah, they bring different elements. But the results were better with Orji against USC than Warren against Texas.

      If you want to ignore everything else - the lack of turnovers from the QB is a pretty massive tie-breaker.

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    17. The liar reeeaching with ifs & buts on 23 September @1:24AM(!)
      ... "if" Link isn't abused, "maybe" Orji connects on a deep shot
      ... "if" usc OL holds a ½ second longer, "maybe" the Riley offense goes off
      This isn't how sports work. Most understand this




      The liar on Sep24 @5:o5PM
      ""No, USC was not a great offensive performance but it was also not bad. In totality, it was just a solid game overall"
      Spoken like an internet rando, not a football guy!
      Comparing the SC defense - or even as a team - to #1 Texas is some BS framing ... but not unexpected coming from our board contrarian, LyinLank



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    18. Is Arkansas State a better comparison, Jelly?

      Not even you believe you.

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    19. USC was the most impressive offensive performance of the year.

      Was it great? No. Would it have been out of place to score 20 points against a top 15 team even with last year's offense? No.

      Michigan didn't start a single one of their drives in USC territory, yet put up 20 points, matching LSU for a season high against USC.

      The 3rd Quarter against USC was woeful. All of the first 3 quarters against Texas were woeful.

      Michigan scored 4 TDs against Arkansas State compared to 3 against USC -- so minus one score, but they didn't throw 3 INTs ceding field position and handing points to the opposition.

      Michigan scored 2 TDs (plus 3 FGs) against Fresno State. 23 points compared to 20 against a vastly superior team. Sorry jelly but no matter how impressed you are by Fresno State beating Sacramento State -- fresno state is not a playoff football team. #liar

      I think the results speak for themselves -- the bar is very low but the USC game was the best we've seen from this 2024 offense. 20 points with no turnover from the QB, against a good defense, is progress.

      Delete
    20. LOL. Who is the liar? I didn't call out Thunder here. I said USC game was an improvement on the first 3 games, better than expected.

      Who said the 2023 offense and 2024 offense were the same? Nobody. Nobody at all. Another fantasy. Or is it delusion? Arguing with ghosts. I'll say it again -- look up the word "comparison". That might help.

      Probably not.

      You're meltdown mad jelly. Emotional. Irrational. Lashing out. Insulting. All because you're wrong.

      You should be used to it though.
      Hold it up high.

      Delete
    21. on Sep 24, at 5:o5PM you called his take BS (comparing offense against SC to Offense to Fresno/ArkSt) ... then proceeded to compare how we did v SC to how we did against Texas

      It's all there, just scroll up

      #lyinLank

      Delete
    22. No I called the framing BS. Because USC is a top 15 team like Texas and NOT like Arkansas State.

      You lied. #exposed.

      Delete
    23. your response "framing" too liar ... usc is NOT texas

      #exposed
      #n0tbUilTf0rthIs

      Delete
    24. Both are top 15 teams. More similar than say...Arkansas State...or NC State.

      facts

      Delete
    25. there's a large gap between the elite title contenders and other ranked teams ... yes or no?

      #falseequivalency

      Delete
    26. Two different teams will never be identical but comparisons are more useful between more similar things than less similar things. Thunder compared to Ark State, I compared to Texas. Here are the defensive rankings (by FEI) for this year's opponents.

      Texas - #7 DFEI 0.59
      USC - #24 DFEI 0.32
      Arkansas State - #115 DFEI -0.31

      Everything is relative and my point stands -- these two top 15 teams are a lot closer / more alike than Arkansas State. These two top 25 defenses are a lot closer / more alike than Arkansas State.

      https://www.bcftoys.com/2024-fei

      Facts. Data. Links. vs.... Lies
      (no one said they were equivalent or identical -- Thunder didn't when he brought up Ark State and I didn't when I brought up Texas).

      The #falseequivalence here is you fantasizing about equivalency and arguing against it.

      Hold it up.

      Delete

    27. so you're bullsh:t doesn't smell as bad as Thunder's?

      Congrats?

      Delete
    28. Facts are bullshit in Jellly land. Call it false equivalence.

      Delete
  6. Pretty ugly. But, I think this game is a loss with Davis Warren playing QB Saturday.

    It's pretty easy to criticize play calling with the 20/20 hindsight of a specific play ending in an insignificant pile of rumps, or worse. But, you can't really see the D on television most of the time. Maybe Thunder can identify it on the fly from his television, I for damn sure can't. I'm waiting for the UFRs to pass judgement on the offensive play calling.

    Having said that, let me say this ... I'm not knocked out by Martindale's play calling so far this season. While I very much supported the hire, like quite a few people, I was concerned about his love of the blitz. I think that concern is playing out. While I can see attempting to get at Evers when you're playing Texas, but covering can be a good idea too. Especially with the front four that we roll out there. If asked, Im voting for letting our D line do their work, and getting some linebackers underneath.

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    Replies
    1. I'd also give Anderson or Crippen a look along with an upperclassman RT.

      Delete
    2. Giudice and Crippen are splitting snaps. 38 to 20. Giudice had one of the lower grades on the team per PFF and while Crippen didn't exactly take the job away forcefully, he had a clear edge. 45 to 61 according to PFF.

      Other notable playing time decisions:

      Mullings got more snaps than Edwards. 32 to 27. There were 58 total so that means they maybe were both out there for 1 play. It should be more, IMO, because Mullings has earned his snaps.

      Edwards had fewer snaps than Kelin, Bredeson, Morris, and Bell. It should be more IMO because he's still a dangerous playmaker and we only have a few of those.

      Semaj had fewer snaps than Morris, Bell, O'Leary, and Charleston. Some of those WRs must be blocking better in practice or something because O'Leary and Charleston graded out poorly to PFF and I echo Thunder's pregame skepticism of Bell. That said I can't really argue for any other WRs too strong ahead of him, this is more about playing Harbaugh football with 22 personnel.

      REJOICE that Bredeson saw 39 snaps - a season high, and likely a career best. Put your best players on the field definitely includes Max.

      TE snaps after Klein and Bredeson went to Marshall (13), Gentry as bonus OL (8), Hansen (5), and Hoffman (2). These guys were out there for critical snaps and I believe the game winning TD went right to Marshall's side. PFF liked Marshall's snaps.

      I'd like to see them just go ahead and embrace who they are (SMASH) and put that extra OL on the field far more often. Pair that with more 2 RB stuff too.



      On defense:

      Iwunnah got 19 snaps while Pierce was a DNP and Etta got 1. Ike has won the DT4 job. Unfortunately his 60 grade was one of the worst on the defense.

      Edge saw Guy and Brandt again get all the backup snaps, but playing less than the backups did last year.

      Barham saw only a handful more snaps than Hillman, which is an interesting development but not a total shock with USC being pass heavy.

      McBurrows saw one snap and immediately got hit.

      Paige and Berry led the defense in snaps and also had the worst PFF grades. Perhaps not a coincidence -- may need Walker to draw in a bit more, especially since he has nickel experience. He many not be all the way up to speed yet though.

      Delete
    3. @ Lank 12:23 p.m.

      I think Bredeson was perhaps one of the best 11 available on Saturday with Loveland out.

      We talked before about whether Ike Iwunnah can be this year's Cam Goode or not. Iwunnah didn't grade out very well, but his PFF grade of 60 was higher than four of Goode's games last season.

      Going back to the TE discussion from over the summer when you made a big deal about Hogan Hansen being ranked so low...

      ...Michigan has had to rotate through a bunch of TEs so far this year, including Hansen, Marshall, Hoffman, Klein, Bredeson, Loveland, Gentry, etc., and it hasn't made a significant difference. You wanted TEs ranked higher, and my point was that they don't matter so much as INDIVIDUALS because there are so many of them. This is a case study right here. They matter as a group because of the extra gaps and such that they provide, but Michigan is playing a freshman Hansen (TD last week!), a redshirt freshman Marshall (at the point of attack on Mullings's TD), and a walk-on backup Hoffman in an important game; the run game is rolling along fine, and the pass game sucks because the QB/OL suck. Josh Beetham isn't here, and it's okay. And I'm betting that if Tonielli or Prieskorn get playing time, that's not going to change much, either.

      Delete
    4. More questioning the coaches on playing time ... a welcomed pivot to fandom





      Delete
    5. "Mullings got more snaps than Edwards. 32 to 27."
      But that also means that Edwards had more snaps before the last drive. And to be clear, I don't mind Edwards getting snaps - yes, use him. But right now this offense desperately needs what Mullings is providing.

      Delete
    6. Well did the offense do well on Saturday or didn't it? I can't tell what you are arguing thunder.

      If yes, then I agree that this is a case study in "TE don't matter."

      But I think one of the big problems on this roster is lack of a in line TE. There are others of course

      Delete
    7. In other words goode played better in 11 games last year? Lol

      It seems He won the dt4 spot thunder. The 6 snaps against Texas proved relevant. I concede the point.

      I didn't think he'll be as good as goode but he's two years younger so he has more runway and could get there.

      Here are your flowers.

      Delete
    8. @ Lank 1:28 a.m.

      The offense didn't do well on Saturday, no. They scored 20 points, including requiring a superhuman run from Mullings. But they're not going to do well regardless of whether it's Hansen or Marshall or Klein out there. The guy who matters (Loveland) was ranked pretty high in the countdown, but a lot of them are JAGs.

      Delete
    9. @ Lank 1:33 a.m.

      Or I'm saying in regard to Iwunnah that he has yet to play as poorly as Goode. Again, I'm not diminishing Goode or claiming Iwunnah is great. I'm just saying that he's playing adequately.

      Everyone seems to like T.J. Guy, and Iwunnah has a higher grade (70) than Guy (67) according to PFF.

      Delete
    10. @Thunder

      I think you are right about Iwunnah. I'm impressed and happy. He has exceeded my expectations in becoming a viable rotation option. He also exceeded yours based on where you put him in the countdown. File under never judge a guy too soon, especially a linemen. I don't think he is playing as well as Goode and neither does PFF.

      ---------------------------------------

      I think 20 points is a solid effort against USC. Michigan scored 20 against Bama last year (in regulation). 26 against Iowa. 30 against OSU (including a 7 yard TD drive set up by the D). 24 against PSU. 20-30 points is solid. Pretty much expected when facing a top 25 opponent with a solid defense even with McCarthy, Wilson, Loveland, Corum, etc. on the field. Not necessarily expected if you think the QB is borderline unplayable.

      Anyway, USC also gave up 20 to LSU, another top 15 team so that 20 points (27 for the team) is a season high. I call it a win and so does the recordbook.

      -----------------------------

      I think there is a big difference between having AJ Barner or Luke Schoonacher or Devin Asiasi out there getting those TE snaps compared to having Hansen or Marshall or Klein out there. I think Bredeson is a difference-maker RIGHT NOW.

      There's no dropoff when moving down the depth chart at TE? OK. Same goes at RB.

      I think that difference is MORE impactful of a change than replacing Blake Corum's snaps with Donovan Edwards or Kalel Mullings. But neither position (TE or RB) is considered to have high positional value. I'm just surprised you are so adamant about one and not the other.

      Regarding Hansen -- Let's not pretend like I said Hansen was the most important guy on the roster though. you ranked him 110. My argument was that he should be ranked higher than that because of the lack of depth at the position and the uncertainty of pecking order. I called out Hoffman as underrated as well. And Hawes too for that matter. Not that I think these guys are awesome but their potential role was more important. and Indeed, These are the guys who are seeing the field in meaningful snaps like USC while guys ranked way higher than them are not. Injuries played a factor in that for sure, but somebody like Tavierre Dunlap (at 65) has NOT scored a TD or played a meaningful down, while Hansen and Hoffman have. I said they were underrated and I think that's proven to be correct.

      When push comes to shove the RB rotation can come down to 1 guy getting 90% of the downs (like we saw against TCU and OSU in 2022) but that can't happen at TE. Not if you want to play Harbaugh/Moore football. We're pulling in FBs, guys who lost the job at OT, and using Flex TEs to try to fill the roster hole at inline TE. It's interesting that you don't think any of what you see as offensive struggles are attributable to the TE position lacking proven depth.

      The scramble for filling the Barner-shaped hole is not drawing much attention relative to the scramble for filling the McCarthy-shaped hole. Justifiably so given the importance of QB. But WR is also playing a bunch of different dudes, yet you aren't applying the same logic about WRs being obviously replaceable. Watch the replay of the USC game and you see our TEs sometimes doing a good job blocking and other times getting rocked back. What they aren't doing (between 6th OL Gentry and cast-handed Marshall) is presenting any pass catching threat which contributes to the issues inherent in having Orji at QB.

      Once Loveland is back -- Orji's numbers will improve. If Barner was still here - Orji's numbers would be better. If Blake Corum was still here -- well we still have 2 other excellent RBs so how much difference would it really make?

      Delete
    11. That was long so I'll try to respond back more succinctly.

      A lot of RBs and WRs are also JAGs but get ranked much higher in the countdown than TE JAGs.

      You know your countdown and you know why you put Donovan Jeter at #1 even though he was JAG. I think the guys who play TE are more important to team outcomes than you are asserting here and that you can easily make the same kind of argument for other positions that you are making at TE.

      Delete
    12. @ Roanman 10:18 a.m.

      I typically pay attention to the offensive formation and the front, but it's hard to keep an eye on the secondary because it's usually out of frame. Sometimes you can find it on replays. But yeah, it can be tough at times to see if Michigan is staying in its cover 2 shell, dropping a safety into the flat for a cover 3 look, etc.

      I thought Saturday was Martindale's best game at Michigan so far. The real bust was when Berry blitzed, which obviously wasn't the correct execution of whatever Martindale called. If he called for a blitz, the safety screwed up. If he didn't call for a blitz, then Berry screwed up. Regardless, I think Martindale simplified things and made them easier. Paige also played that hole shot terribly, which again is more on the player than on the DC.

      I know some people don't think Martindale can change at this point in his career - and maybe he can't - but I do think it's a little unfair to judge him after a couple games. If the defense plays like this for the rest of the season, Michigan should have a shot to beat almost anyone, though I have my doubts about the offense being able to keep up with Ohio State.

      Delete
    13. Agree with your Wink comments and OSU outlook. Even McDonald/Minter only slowed OSU down, not shut them down, so offense would need to do it's part. That feels exceedingly optimistic in the moment but it's a rivalry game. Hoping (not expecting) that by then they've developed into an offense closer to top 30 than outside the top 50 and grind them down.

      Delete
    14. Jeez, back to RBs don't matter ...

      Might as well throw in Center. Switch them out, no difference ... why not try Tackle? Rotate Link out, and I guarantee his replacement won't score lower in Pass Pro ... in fact, the #1CB in the nation was on the bench in the 4Q, but MICHIGAN still got the stop!

      No positions matter, and questioning the Coaches on playing time is cool again

      Delete
    15. Just talkin about Lank again. trollllllllllllllllllll on!

      Delete
    16. "I think 20 points is a solid effort against USC. Michigan scored 20 against Bama last year (in regulation). 26 against Iowa. 30 against OSU (including a 7 yard TD drive set up by the D). 24 against PSU. 20-30 points is solid. Pretty much expected when facing a top 25 opponent with a solid defense..."
      One of these things is not like the other. USC may be borderline okay on defense but last year's Bama, OSU, PSU and Iowa were all very highly ranked and proven defenses. Putting up 20 on USC is not close to the same thing as putting up 26 vs Iowa or 24 vs PSU. It's more like putting up 20 vs this year's MSU defense and please don't sign me up for that. This offense is going to need dramatic improvement if this Michigan team hopes to meet its expectations.

      Delete
    17. @BNC

      USC is the #31 ranked D according to FEI. It's a solid defense but you are right that they are not elite tier like Iowa, OSU, PSU, Bama were last year (all top 10).

      If you want to say they are more like a Maryland (#38 defense) or Rutgers (#43 defense), our 2023 offense scored 20 points and 24 points against those teams. Those were not disastrous, nor was this USC game.

      EVERYONE, and I do mean everyone, expected this offense to take a step back relative to 2023 and they have! The results will not be as good as last year. I think that is obvious. So what did you actually expect and what does success look like. To me, 20 points against a solid defense is a solid effort.

      If your baseline is 2023 and you ignored the first 3 weeks I could see how one would be disappointed in it. If you watched the first 3 weeks and you saw that the starting QB was benched and the best offensive player was out, I don't know how you don't come away being at least a little bit encouraged with what the offense did - gashing USC for multiple big plays while limiting turnovers.

      "This offense is going to need dramatic improvement if this Michigan team hopes to meet its expectations."

      I think it depends on what your expectations are. I knew were were starting 10 new guys on the OL with a walk-on QB going into the season and then watched the struggles to move and hold onto the ball in the first 3 games -- so my expectations were not above the 20 point mark for USC.

      Thunder predicted 31 to 23, so 27 to 24 seems like maybe it exceeded at least someone else's expectations as well.

      Delete
  7. Moore has commented their player evaluation has Guidice grading out higher than Crippin.
    Also, Moore's evaluation has Rosi O'Donnell grading out higher than Jennifer Love Hewitt

    ReplyDelete
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    1. What a 90s reference LOL.

      Delete
    2. Jennifer Love Hewitt was gorgeous. Maybe she still is.

      Delete
  8. Joe Milton is a better QB than Cade McNamara. Both are 24 years old, but one is an NFL backup after a successful college career leading Tennessee to a top 15 season and winning an Orange Bowl MVP trophy. The other is a maligned QB at Iowa, sporting a passer rating of 117 on the season and a QBR of 31, who is getting benched in the red zone in favor of a dual-threat QB who transferred over from Northwestern.

    Milton was much maligned for his 2020 season by Michigan fans and McNamara was hailed as a hero for his contributions to the wildly successful 2021 football season. Cade was IN. Joe was OUT. Cade thrived and led. Joe transferred, got hurt, and became a backup at Tennessee...

    But the story has turned dramatically since 2022. The narrative NOW is that Cade was the better QB, FOR MICHIGAN, in 2021. Contextually - he was the right fit. This could well be true! The success of the team, speaks for itself. Even if McNamara had some limitations, the team worked with what they had -- and they won.

    Turnovers were limited, the QB was managed, playcalling was adapted, the run game thrived, and the team won.

    That was 2021. Now it is 2024. On Saturday McNamara produced 62 yards passing on 19 attempts on the day, plus a 13 yard sack, for a net yardage day of 49 yards. Against the Minnesota Gophers. In a win! Meanwhile, Alex Orji produced 32 yards passing on 12 attempts while adding 43 yards on the ground. Against the top 15 ranked USC Trojans. In a win!

    75 yards for 20 year old Alex Orji in a win over USC
    49 yards for 24 year old Cade McNamara in a win over Minnesota.

    Perhaps Alex Orji, the source of a lot of doom and gloom projections and predictions of position switches over the last couple years in this space, is the right QB, FOR MICHIGAN, in 2024. A QB who isn't the most talented guy in the world can be the right guy FOR MICHIGAN, in 2024. If they follow the recipe --

    Turnovers were limited, the QB was managed, playcalling was adapted, the run game thrived, and the team won.

    The rest of the season is TBD, but the Alex Orji era is off to a heck of a start with the victory over USC. Nobody is expecting to match the success of the 12-2 season in 2021 for this 2024 Michigan team that's turning over 20 starters, with a rookie head coach, rookie OC, rookie OL coach, etc. But for a first start -- that's a heck of a win.

    McNamara never faced the skepticism and criticism Orji faced as a freshman or sophomore. McNamara was a much higher rated recruit with more talent as a passer than Orji. But both took over for badly struggling starters, and in their first big time test they won (Cade coming in for relief against Rutgers, Alex against USC).

    Eventually, McNamara had a junior season that was filled with a lot of team success. Perhaps Alex Orji will too. Perhaps not -- most fans seem very skeptical. Perhaps rightfully so.

    One thing is abundantly clear -- Alex Orji has already proved many of his skeptics wrong. To those that predicted a position change -- Alex Orji is here, at QB, starting for the top 15 ranked Michigan Wolverines. To those who predicted that Alex Orji's lack of pass attempts as a run-package QB was a red flag -- Alex Orji is here, at QB, defeating the USC Trojans.

    College football is an interesting game isn't it? GO BLUE!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Interesting comparison to track between Orji and McNamara.

      Passer ratings are 114 vs 117 at the moment.
      QBR are 36 vs 31 at the moment.

      I personally would be pretty surprised if McNamara didn't finish with a better passer rating given his advantage in talent, age, and experience. I also wouldn't be surprised if Orji came out ahead, at least in QBR, given what he can do on the ground.

      Interesting angle on the season to observe though.

      Delete
    2. Revisiting & revising history

      Lyin. Just lyin ... unprompted too

      So much for #caseClosed

      Delete
    3. How many posts in a row is that for you jelly; to Lank, about Lank, for Lank? Not about football. #obsessed

      No lies told!

      Delete
    4. Sounds more like your thing amigo

      Delete
  9. An excellent and thoughtful thread on the Michigan offense for those on twitter:

    https://x.com/SpaceCoyoteBDS/status/1839377712051556703

    "So there are problems and they'll likely remain. The season planning was wrong and there are too many gaps, and I think the coaching is to blame there. But again, I think people focus on the wrong areas like there is a simple fix. Unfortunately, there isn't."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not only are you questioning the coaches but now you're using Twitter posts to explain why it's okay to do so

      #exposed

      Delete
    2. Remember when a double post was evidence of a meltdown?
      #exposed

      Delete