Well, the coaching stunk. Where do you start? And where do you stop? Michigan lost a possession because Oregon lined up in a funky punt formation, and it's illegal to line up over the snapper. Michigan's best 4th-and-5 call toward the end of the game was an end around pass with Semaj Morgan, and he threw the ball to Alex Orji, who had run out of bounds. The best thing about the entire offense was Davis Warren-to-Colston Loveland, and when it came down to crunch time, Michigan put the ball in Alex Orji's and Semaj Morgan's hands. Coaches always talk about "players, not plays" and Michigan very clearly went for "plays, not players." Gross. Michigan had no answers in the run game, whether on options or RPOs. They challenged a Colston Loveland dropped pass for no reason, which cost them a timeout. I don't want to say coaching cost them the game, because Oregon is clearly a better team. But it probably wouldn't have been a 21-point loss.
Hit the jump for more.
The above score should have been 34-17 or 31-17, anyway. If I'm Michigan's coaching staff, I'm contacting the Big Ten office, oh . . . at halftime of yesterday's game. Oregon's first touchdown to Evan Stewart was a drop on the sideline, an even clearer drop than the aforementioned Loveland drop. Oregon QB Dillon Gabriel made a very nice throw to Stewart on a back shoulder play that beat very good coverage by cornerback Aamir Hall. Except it didn't really beat Hall, because the ball hit Stewart's hands, clearly dropped to the ground, and then bounced back up into his midsection. Despite the fact that all scoring plays are supposed to be reviewed, the TV replay of the drop didn't show up until after the extra point and subsequent commercial. I don't really blame Michigan's staff in the booth for not noticing, because they don't get any special angles. Those guys are just watching the TV broadcast; if TV didn't show it until after the commercial, Michigan's people didn't see it until then, either. But the Big Ten is supposed to look at all the camera angles. This was a massive failure by the conference and obviously 4 to 7 points could be the difference in a game. (Since it was a 3rd down play, Oregon could have kicked - or missed - a chip shot field goal instead of being awarded a touchdown; they likely wouldn't have gone for a touchdown and chased points that early in the game.)
Davis Warren might be okay. Warren completed 12/21 passes for 164 yards, 2 touchdowns, and 0 interceptions. For the second week in a row, he never really put a throw in danger of being turned over. There was one play where it looked like his wind-up was interrupted by right tackle Evan Link being pushed back into him, which resulted in a fumble that Warren recovered himself. But overall, Warren did some really nice things. He impressively escaped a sack to scramble for a couple yards didn't take any sacks. Both of his touchdown throws were pinpoint-accurate, one to walk-on wideout Peyton O'Leary and one to Tyler Morris on a really nice adjustment. Another couple throws were ones that could have been caught but weren't reeled in (one by Loveland that led to the doomed challenge, one by Morris), and another couple were smart throwaways when nothing was open. He's not the most talented quarterback around, but if the talent around him could hold up more, he's capable of playing winning football. I'll continue to assert that a lot of the early-season issues when he began the year as the starter stemmed from other guys (Donovan Edwards, Evan Link, Colston Loveland, etc.) not doing their jobs. Warren isn't dynamic enough to make up for others' mistakes, but he's consistent enough to be a gear in the clock.
Missing two cornerbacks wasn't ideal. The absence of cornerback Will Johnson wasn't a surprise - we now know his injury is turf toe - but there was a surprising pre-game revelation that Jyaire Hill would also miss the game. That was less than ideal as Michigan faced perhaps the best passing attack they'll see all year, along with Texas. Aamir Hill should be a #2 or #3 corner, but instead he was forced into #1 action, and Holden burnt him to a crisp with 6 catches for 149 yards. That also forced some other guys onto the field in weird places, including Makari Paige playing at nickel and Zeke Berry playing corner. On that front, it's pretty disappointing that Michigan has veterans like Kody Jones and Myles Pollard on the roster who are apparently completely incapable of seeing the field. That's not to mention walk-on Keshaun Harris, who started a few games last year and now . . . doesn't play a lick of defense. Harris now solely returns kickoffs, something he's not very good at doing.
Speaking of Harris. Once again, I want to point out that a program like Michigan should not be relying on a walk-on like Harris to return kickoffs. I know the label "walk-on" doesn't mean everything, but Harris didn't get a scholarship for a reason. Yes, he's fast - one of the fastest players on the team - but he has shown zero ability to find a lane, break a tackle, or make someone miss. This is less about Harris, who I don't want to denigrate, and more about the fact that the coaching staff hasn't identified someone with more dynamic ability. People like Cole Cabana, Tavierre Dunlap, and other backup wide receivers and defensive backs should be able to return kickoffs. This type of role needs to be recruited. Michigan had success with the likes of A.J. Henning and Giles Jackson, but the guy with the 87-yard punt return last year, Semaj Morgan, doesn't return kickoffs and only returns punts sometimes.
People want to blame Wink Martindale. I don't know. Michigan gave up a season-high 38 points, but one touchdown wasn't a touchdown, and Michigan was down both its starting cornerbacks. I know Oregon lost leading receiver Tez Johnson to injury after just two touches (one catch, one punt return), but losing two corners for a team short on playable corners is a more significant setback. Michigan also has an offense averaging 5.05 yards per play, which is #116 nationally, and their 5.09 yards per play in this game was just barely any better. The only consistent offensive weapon was Loveland, who had 7 catches for 112 yards. It's complementary football, and the offense isn't holding up its end of the bargain.
Here's hoping for six wins. Michigan has undefeated Indiana, struggling Northwestern, and one-loss Ohio State left on its schedule. The Wolverines need one victory to ensure at least a .500 season and a bowl game appearance. Coming off of a 15-0 national championship, this is a precipitous drop-off - not just in wins, but in the separation from the good teams. There's really been no doubt who's the better team when it comes to Texas and Oregon.
Why are analysts relying on TV crews for reviews? It's our stadium. Where does All22 & practice film come from? I honestly assumed a multimillion dollar operation had camera angles near that of a teen on tiktok ...
ReplyDeleteSpTms Coach has to go. Not just the Tre Pierce play, but we've had SpTms crap all year. Lol about KR though. Last year I thought Cole Cabana might sneak in there, and dude is NOWHERE to be seen
I understand coaches getting the blame, but thought the same about Corner. Not many teams are competing with Oregon without CB2 & CB2. On offense, there's not much to do with the worst WR room we've had in years and a subpar OL. Davis did better, but he's still not The Guy ... but holy crap there's a difference between creative (using The Don, passing with Orji) and having Semaj throw a clutch pass, or only bringing Orji in to run into a brick wall
Grateful for the last three years, but 6-6 is worse than anyone thought possible, and even THAT is going to be a fight
I blame Wink because he is getting paid $3 million, one of the highest paid asst coach. He has to be better than this. We can’t fire him. I hope he has the decency to retire.
ReplyDeleteGiven how our season has gone, I will not be surprised if we have seen the last of Will Johnson. As a potential first rounder, I do not see why he would rush to return to the field to risk further injury.
For the game? Nah, I don't blame wink & only wink. For the season? Yeah, he's made a ton of mistakes. But you know what covers some of that up? Depth! Teams across the nation went after the Portal a year ago, but we didn't. After Graham, Grant & Benny, we had no one ready to play. After Stewart & Moore, only hope for TJ Guy. Will has a long history of injury ... and we got a single FCS guy. Just not good enough
DeleteI think Will hurt his draft potential. A couple great Picks, but was also beaten a bit, and sidelined the rest of the season
Wink would be equally to blame if he made $300K. I really don't get this mindset. His job is to be a good DC, regardless of his pay.
DeleteI trust Will Johnson will do all he can to be on the field against OSU. I doubt he is making a business decision here.
Warren played the game of his life yesterday and even with Colston Loveland and a defense fixated on stopping the run game, and rotating snaps with a running QB, he barely completed 50% of his passes and managed to produce one TD drive over 28 yards (the fumbled punt was a gift and Michigan scored that completing one 7 yard pass). Kudos to Warren for addressing the horrendous INT issues at the start of the year, but if you are trying to put this game on a walk-on QBs shoulders to defeat the #1 team in the country -- you lose.
ReplyDeleteOregon is a good opponent. The coaching staff deserves plenty of criticism but this was not the worst performance of the year in that regard (Illinois was). Even if you clean up 4 or 5 of the worst things you can hang on coaches, Oregon still wins this game easily.
Davis "Warren Davis" Warren is not good. He could be a Cade McNamara level player, which is.... not good! He is a 22 year old walk on who looks like a 22 year old walk on. Even with the game of his life yesterday -- there was a lot of meat on the bone. How many 3 and outs did he oversee? A good QB should be TOASTING opposing teams who are cheating to stop the run. A good QB should be FEASTING with a receiver like Colston Loveland. All I hear about is separation from the WRs holding the passing game back but how much separation did Evan Stewart have when Gabriel was putting the ball in his pocket for a TD? I realize the bar is very low for QB play in 2024 but Warren Davis is not the answer for 2025.
The Tyler Morris TD looked to me like it was intended for O'Leary. I think they got lucky there. But I don't know for sure.
Warren made several very good throws yesterday. Warren avoided turnovers yesterday (except for the fumble). That's progress in the context of 2024 but it's not GOOD. The big thing to note about Warren is that once again the run game could do next to nothing with him at QB. Maybe you think Kalel Mullings suddenly forgot how to RB, but he has 21 carries for 34 yards since Warren took over. That's not a coincidence. Edwards is not exactly lighting it up either with 19 carries for 76 yards.
Warren can be McNamara -- that's not good enough for Michigan. It's not even good enough for Iowa.
All I hear for Warren is excuses.
The offense generated 10 points for itself while punting 5 times and turning it over on downs once. I don't care if the passing stats are respectable in a vacuum if the offense doesn't score, the QB isn't doing his job. I'm reminded here of the 2015 OSU game - a butt-whoopin that the QB avoided any blame for because of putting up inoffensive passing stats.
The ineptitude is not OK. A QB is more than his passing stats.
I'm going to take opinion out of it. Here are Davis Warren's grades from unbiased sources:
DeletePFF: #58 passer in the country, right behind Georgia's Carson Beck
PER: does not qualify due to playing time, but his PER against Big Ten teams would rank him #33 nationally, right behind BYU's Jake Retzlaff
Since his reinstatement as starter, Warren has been playing well. And even with his bad games figured in to PFF, he's still a solid passer.
I think you're pinning too much blame on Warren. He can't carry the whole offense on his back. The OL can't move people off the ball, and there's no deep threat (Amorion Walker missed yet another game).
The offense averaged 5.09 yards per play against a team giving up 4.96 yards per play.
You can badmouth him if you want, but PFF disagrees with you and so do efficiency stats. He has also not turned over the ball and taken zero sacks for two straight weeks.
What good are good passing grades if the offense isn't scoring?
DeleteThat's my biggest question. But asserting your opinion on Warren "playing well" as a fact does NOT hold up to the evidence.
#58 in the country by PFF = not good! Worse than Orji the last 2 weeks = not good!
Selectively omitting worst performances of the season to yield #33 in the country in PER = not good!
It's funny to me that you are willing to credit QBs as passing threats to open up the run game for RBs without any evidence for it, but when presented with contradictory evidence (strong correlation), you ignore the issue of QB effect on the run game entirely.
He has produced respectable QBRs in the last 2 weeks, and respectable passer ratings. Nobody can take that fact away, but it's also evident that he is doing so because defenses don't care about him. They don't respect him and they are instead focused on stopping the run game.
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I'm going to "take opinion out of it" and say that Warren sucked ass the first 3 games of the season and he is better the last 2 weeks but that is still not good and not OK. He is a one dimensional player and in that one dimension he is worse than mediocre. As a result, the RBs are not producing with him at QB the last 2 weeks and the offense is not playing well (still).
Not throwing INTs is good. Fumbling once in two games is not. The offense producing 1 or 2 legitimate drives a game against Oregon is not good. The offense producing 3 legitimate drives against MSU is not good.
You like Warren because he looks like the kind of QB you like and so you are making a lot of excuses. You don't make the same excuses for Orji because he doesn't look like the kind of QB you like. But the results are still not good. The offense is not good with Warren and that responsibility falls on Warren. Just as the offense not being good with Orji fell on Orji. Ditto for Tuttle (where the offense was at it's absolute worst).
Would it be better with Orji? Probably not much! But let's not pretend the QB play is substantially better here. Let's not pretend things are good or even "OK". They are bad. They have been bad. They remain bad.
The excuse against Washington was that it was an elite pass defense and that's why Orji's replacement was a turnover machine. The excuse against Arkansas State was that everyone else was messing up while the QB threw 3 INTs that are not his fault. Now the excuse is that the OL is bad -- where was that excuse for Orji? LOL. It was all his fault.
What I'm not hearing is an explanation why Minnesota and USC still stand as the most impressive offensive performances of the season. Avoiding turnovers was something you dismissed saying it "wasn't everything" when it was Tuttle vs Orji and now that it's Warren-in-the-last-2-weeks, it's a big feather in his cap. PFF grades...have Orji over Warren each of the last 2 weeks. I guess PFF thinks we have 2 QBs who are playing well?
Anyway, agree to disagree I guess. But the facts are not in your favor here Thunder. You were very harsh on Orji and you are making all kinds of lame excuses for Warren.
LOL at bringing up Amarion Walker. What makes you think he is a deep threat?
DeleteAn example of excuse making -- Walker missing is an excuse for Warren being unable to throw anything deep (and coaches not trusting him to even try). Loveland missing was ignored in Orji narrative.
Delete"a program like Michigan should not be relying on a walk-on like Harris to return kickoffs. "
ReplyDeleteYes. But kick off returner is the least of it. Kickoff returns are mostly irrelevant but who is out there on 20-50 plays a game on offense is massively relevant.
We have a walk-on QB throwing to a walk-on WR with a walk-on FB running routes.
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I agree with Thunder that Wink shouldn't be thrown in the trash bin, but I also see why the questions are coming up. This is an ELITE DL, with two plus LBs, and a secondary with well above average talent. The sum of the parts is greater than the whole. There is a pattern here of blitzes coming that are nowhere NEAR coming close to ontime and the 3rd down performance has been absolutely atrocious. Can argue we've been spoiled with great tackling the last couple years and relying on too many young guys this year but even vets like QJohnson and Paige appear to be struggling. I don't think it's a train wreck, but it's not very encouraging for 2025, that this group, with this talent, is not a top 10 outfit.
The offense has put the defense in position to fail at times this year. That was not the case yesterday. Oregon whooped Michigan's tail. The CBs are a reasonable excuse for that to a degree but 4 of the first 5 drives in this game were TDs for Oregon. These were 60 something, 70 something, 80 something, and 90 something yard drives. Not just the offense putting it on a platter for the other side.
They did stiffen in the second half (2 punts in 4 drives), so perhaps a sign of optimism for Wink making adjustments...but that's being generous.
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I think Thunder is spot on with the goal for 2024 being to make a bowl game. I think the other thing I hope to see is more playing time for some of the younger guys who we think might return next year. Mason Curtis, Edmonds, Rolder, Pierce, Etta, Kendrick Bell, Hogan Hansen, Ben Hall, etc. IT may not be optimal for 2024 but those guys should be out there to start getting more prepared for 2025.
The kickoff return thing is a microcosm of what's going on with the whole offense. There are no playmakers.
DeleteNo playmakers? Wow. No one saw that coming
DeleteWrong -- Loveland, Mullings, and Edwards are playmakers. Bredeson is a playmaker as a blocker. That's 4 guys who are going to play in the NFL.
DeleteLack of playmakers isn't the problem with this offense it's the QB position, bad coaching, an incoherent gameplan, and a mediocre OL.
Omitting WRs from "playmakers" ... noted
Delete#iwasright
You can include Morris and Semaj too! They aren't great WRs but they are playmakers. Hard to see when QB is inept but we saw enough of it in 2023.
Deletebottomline is that the offense is loaded with playmakers. We have similar play-making ability as the 2021 squad (2 good RBs but nobody like Loveland). So that's not the problem.
DeleteQB, OL, scheme are the problem.
with that backpedal, maybe LyinLank can play DB? Nah, too soft
DeleteToo small. 2ooDuMb
Deleteour WRs are not playmakers. You know it, and didn't list them ... yet another self own
DeleteHinton has made key blocks, and is bound for the League. Is he a playmaker? If Tuttle is deserving of credit for Don's Washington TD, is he a playmaker?
Rather than sound like Oprah and grant everyone the "playmaker" label, revert back to the spring WR discussion: compared to what? Are our WRs making plays compared to Oregon's? ohio's? Indiana's? sparty?!? If we're "loaded with playmakers," how do we compare to Texas? Oregon? Washington & ohio?
Maybe you can define "playmaker"
#outsmarted
A playmaker is a player who makes big plays. Typically this is explosive plays, 20 plus yards, that sort of thing. Typically it's associated with said player going above and beyond what a typical player would do on that play. I would include Max Bredeson as a playmaker given how many times he's making a critical and impactful block on explosive plays where the RB isn't necessarily doing anything special, but that's nuance to the larger point. The distinction I've made before and you don't want to hear because you're too busy imagining your own arguments -->
DeleteYou can be a playmaker without being a good player.
They are different things. The venn diagram overlaps for sure, but they are different things. Playmakers can't necessarily be counted on, for consistent production. But you want to give them chances to do something special, because they might get you that explosive play.
We have plenty of playmakers on offense.
Loveland is the most obvious. And he spends most of his snaps split out wide as a receiver and he's one of the best receivers in the nation and probably a 1st round NFL pick. Good player and a playmaker.
Mullings and Edwards are probably going to play in the NFL, or at least get on practice squads. You and Thunder think Edwards is not a good player -- but you acknowledge he's a playmaker ("boom/bust"). Mullings has made a number of big plays, so feeding him the ball, even if he's going to get you only 2 or 3 yards most of the time, is a good idea for an offense that doesn't have that many good ideas.
Semaj and Morris have MADE PLAYS too. They did it last year. Semaj is not a good player on a down to down basis - but he can make plays. Coaches make a point to get him the ball, and did last year too, because he can make plays. Morris is probably a good player but with our QB situation it's tough to tell. Not tough to tell -- his TD catch against Alabama's NFL secondary was an example of playmaking on an elite stage against elite competition. zoom.
Michael Shaw was a playmaker. Ty Isaac was a playmaker. Daryl Stonum was a playmaker. Joe Milton was a playmaker. None of them were great players, but they were guys who could make plays when put in a position to do so.
Michigan is not putting it's players (and it's playmakers specifically) in a position to succeed in 2024. The explosive elements of the offense that you saw against Minny and USC are gone. The longest play of the game against Indiana was 16 yards. On a roster with Loveland, Edwards, Mullings, Morgan, Morris that's a failure. It's a coaching problem, not a personnel problem.
We have more and better skill positions talent than Indiana and MSU. Not OSU and probably not Oregon but both of those teams would kill to have Colston Loveland and Donovan Edwards.
Michigan's WR group is weak relative to other elite teams. This has NEVER been disputed except in your imagination jellly. You just misdiagnose what that weakness is. They have guys who can make plays (a.k.a. playmakers) and they have Colston Loveland playing WR at an elite level. What they don't have is a consistent down field threat like Roman Wilson or a trusted receiving target for 3rd down conversions beyond Loveland.
The point here is you can have an excellent offense if the 4 guys going out on routes are Loveland, Edwards, Morris, and Morgan. You can have an offense that generates lots of big plays if those are the 4 options to throw to. You can mix and match 3 of them with a couple other guys and do good things and have big plays. Indiana doesn't have better players than those 4.
It doesn't happen. But it doesn't happen because of lack of playmaking.
Our QBs don't get them the ball because they aren't good.
Our coaches don't scheme them to get open or get easy opportunities on screens because they aren't good.
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DeleteI would not call Hinton a playmaker but I would listen to arguments. He's a good player but I can't recall too many explosive plays where he was doing extraordinary things. I could have missed that.
Tuttle isn't responsible for Don's TD against Washington, that was a coaching win (Or RPS, in Mgoblog's parlance) to call a zone read play. All 11 guys did their job and the best things about it were fairly unexceptional (Tuttle made the right read but it was an easy read, Don made a good cut but it wasn't anything amazing, everyone blocked their guy). Individually, Don probably gets the most credit because a slower back might have been tackled for an 8 or 9 yard gain there, but the hole he ran through was a gaping one. Washington overreacted to the thing they practiced against all week when expecting Orji -- QB as a run theat that has to be respected. Two safeties were out of position and unblocked, because they were worried about Tuttle potentially running it, but that's not about Tuttle doing anything special, he was just executing a basic play that nearly every team runs. It's RPS, good execution by 11 guys, and Don's speed.
That's a lot of nuance ... but no definition, no stats or comparisons. Just more contractions like "you can be a playmaker without being a good player"
DeleteAt least we now agree they're not good players, but that first part reminds me of our spring conversation, when I said that our WRs were guys who have made A PLAY, but are not playmakers, especially in the context of our competition
Of course the coaches have tried to get the ball to Semaj ... the alternatives are walk-on OLeary, FR Bell and position switcher Walker. Guess what? ONE touchdown all season is what he has to show for it, and that was in Garbage Time ---> FOUR touchdowns for the entire WR room. That's worse than I initially expressed concern about, by a significant amount ... but of course you disagreed for months
*LMAO at squeezing in a lie about my thoughts on Don. I've said for four seasons that he's a special player with elite potential, just not a Harball Back ... 1o games into his fourth year now, and that holds true
#youwerewrong
#iwasright
"Tuttle isn't responsible for Don's TD against Washington, that was a coaching win (Or RPS, in Mgoblog's parlance) to call a zone read play"
That's still your GUESS, stubbornly pushed as fact ... perhaps the coaches turned on a live read for that one play, then turned it back off because it worked so well?
Fantasy 😂🤣😂
We always agreed the WR unit was unproven. Some people just want to argue.
DeleteThe coaches got the ball to Semaj LAST YEAR jelly. When the alternatives were a bunch of NFL draft picks. Because he's a playmaker. But not a good WR.
This isn't hard. But you want to argue with your fantasy. Lying to yourself.
Just like trying to make the Don TD about a read being live or not. I told you before and I'll tell your hardhead again now even though you'll just forget because you got hit in the head too many times -- it doesn't matter if the read was live or it wasn't -- what matters is that the defense paid attention and reacted to the threat of the QB run. One safety scraping just like anyone scraping to stop the QB keeper, the other safety aggressively attacking the LOS and in position to defend the QB keep in the middle of the field. Neither were in a position to touch Don because they were worried about something else....and BACK TO THE POINT...that something else wasn't the pass.
Hold it up.
Dodging. Lying. How many TDs for Semaj, this year and/or last? How does that compare to our opponents' playmakers at WR? Fact is, he's just another "potential" guy with a hole lot of coaching needed
DeleteI'm not trying to make this about Reads being live or not ... in fact what I started with was WE DON'T KNOW ... what we do know is that BOTH head coaches said the Huskies adjusted to the threat of a pass once Tuttle went in. Only YOU insist & dig in, despite no one agreeing with you ... so you LIE that Reads have been "acknowledged." All you have is LIES, like your misrepresentation of Due's tweet. Just one lie after another ... remember your lie about Orji passing 3x v Oregon ... just a pitiful liar
*the blitzing Safety is responsible for ANY run threatening field side, not specifically the QB. The Safety who started 13(!) yards beyond the LoS on 3rd & 3 to go against Run First Run Often, Smash MICHIGAN, and took a bad angle. This is common in football and does NOT confirm his intent
You are arrogantly confident, but too weak to bet. All alone, with no one on your side, Five weeks after your bullsh:t claim
Phonyass argument. I said nothing about how many TDs Semaj scored. I said the coaches put him on the field as a freshman when they had a lot of other options -- which is true. And they tried to get him the ball -- which is true. The reason is because they believed he could make plays -- and he did!
DeleteAs a playmaker, he's not a "potential" guy - he's a proven guy. He produced 4 plays over 20 yards and 4 TDs as a true freshman when he was the 4th WR on a team that doesn't use WRs very much. And an 87 yard punt return.
Playmaker? Check the tape. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgcnA0dvN4E
He IS a "potential" guy when it comes to being a top 3 WR -- because, AGAIN, being a playmaker and being a guy who can be trusted to execute on a down to down basis are different things.
We needed good WRs on a down to down basis. We didn't need "playmakers". Those we have.
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You're a broken record on the Edwards TD.
I told you what is obvious -- the defense (specifically the safeties) are playing to stop the run, not the pass, and playing it like the QB is a run threat.
You want to DODGE to talk about something other than THAT PLAY because the above is indisputable. The thing you are dodging too -- is something I agreed with. Quoted. Linked. But on you persist. Lying. Dodging. going off for multiple paragraphs about Jon Jansen for some unknown reason! You are arguing with your imagination. My quotes prove it.
Back to Edwards TD. The safety scrapes to be the EMLOS. He is in position to defend the QB. He is NOT in position to defend the RB. He is unblocked! An unblocked defender is at the LOS and on his heels, while the RB runs in the other direction. He is NOT in position to defend the pass. He is NOT attacking the RB. He is scraping to the other side of where the RB goes, and so he is out of position to defend the RB running -- because he is busy doing something different than trying to stop the RB from running. NOT HARD. Unless your head is.
The flip side is to ask who on that play is worried about the pass. Answer -- only the 4 guys assigned to cover the 4 guys. 1 of which is a CB on Bredeson who folds into the box when Bredeson motions in, putting 8 guys in the box. 1 is a LB lined up on Klein. The other 2 are DBs covering 1 on 1 with our WR. The only 3 guys NOT in the box are those 2 DBs and the deep safety -- who is screaming forward at the snap and never stop running straight ahead at the mesh point until AFTER Edwards cuts. But that deep safety is towards the field side (as you pointed out) even though Edwards is on the hash to the boundary. Why isn't the unblocked deep safety aligned to stop Edwards? Because he's been practicing all week (and probably all year) to defend a zone read option where the QB can keep. Not hard. Unless your head is.
This is like me watching a deep safety run over to provide double coverage on a threatening receiver and arguing he isn't worried about the pass because he is in position to stop a RB if a RB happens to run over there. Meanwhile the RB is on the other side of the field! LOL
Nobody believes you but you. You don't understand football. And you tell on yourself every week.
Every accusation is an admission. Lies? Dodging? doesn't know the game? Sounds like jellllllly alright.
Hold it up.
We have one of the worst offenses in college football and in modern MICHIGAN football history. Playmakers score touchdowns, and touchdowns is something we desparately need
DeleteBut if you want to make this about targets, catches and yards, don't dodge! How do our WRs compare to the competition? Answer me BOY
On the Edwards TD, the blitzing Safety does not have Connor Stallions telling him the play. If he did, the X's & O's guys you asked for b:tch & moan that we don't run Live Reads, and maybe don't even know how! That Safety is blitzing field side, period. Anything coming that way is his responsibility ... you don't know the game!
Short & simple ... and NOBODY agrees with you
#n0tbUiLtf0rtHiS
Playmakers are affected by context like anyone else. Your X's and O's guys at Mgoblog say Morris is a good player but you can't tell because the situation around him. I tend to agree but how would we even know.
DeleteWhat we do know is that Morris is a playmaker.
We also know that Mullings is a playmaker. We haven't seen it for 5+ weeks, but we still know it.
Ditto for Don.
You're back to insults because that's all you have. 2OOsMaLl! No surprised that you'd be obsessed with a BOY. BEGGING for interaction.
Our WRs are better than Indiana's and Illinois and Iowa's. The people Warren can throw to are better than the people that Rourke can throw to, or Altmyer can throw to. Loveland and Edwards are going to be good pass catchers in the NFL. Morris is probably a solid college WR too, with playmaking ability already proven. Oregon and OSU can top that trio - most teams in the Big Ten would LOVE to have it.
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"the blitzing Safety does not have Connor Stallions telling him the play. "
Well here we agree. He's there on the scrape exchange to be the EMLOS handling in the event of the zone read keep. It doesn't come -- but the defense is in position to stop it. The play design, if you understood football, is to threaten the field side with QB option run, live read, or not, the defense doesn't know, so they spend a guy on it.
OWNED again. Come back for more!
Sincerely, your boy Lank (you wish!)
Pointing out your inconsistencies & repeated dodging isn't an insult, regardless of your feelings
Delete"What we do know is that Morris is a playmaker"
NO. That's just something YOU say ... maybe his parents too ... but not even your reference at MGoBlog agrees (you're lying again) ... just talking around your BS. 15 catches; 2TDs ... that's not a playmaker. Last year it was 0TDs in the regular season. 1TD against a LB who isn't good in coverage during the Rose Bowl; last week you stopped crediting Tuttle for the Edwards TD, and gave it to coaches as RPS. Consistency means that WR v LB matchup is on the coaches too (RPS+2). Easily dismantled, using your shifting "logic"
"Our WRs are better than Indiana's and Illinois and Iowa's" we don't play Iowa, LIAR. But for the other two, what objective measure are you applying? Fxck your feelings BOY
"in the event of the zone read keep" ... which you have yet to prove LIAR. You don't know the playcall or the play design ... you begged for X's & O's input, and NO ONE has agreed with you. So you lied about Due and ignore that given six weeks, the only X & O comments we've read or heard is that 1) Washington adjusted for the PASS; and 2) MICHIGAN doesn't/can't do Reads ... Washington was playing the field side, but not necessarily for a QB run ... you CANNOT prove otherwise
#notsmartenough
#youwerewrong
#jeDub
Morris showed he was a playmaker in 2023. Morris might be showing he's a good player in 2024 -- too hard to tell though because the offense is shit. Citation: mgoblog podcast.
DeleteYou don't like the facts. You make up your own definitions. Fantasy after fantasy. Getting boring.
Just kidding!
The new fantasy is that I'm supposed to prove a counterfactual. LOL. DUE called it a read. No one agrees with you and you are CLEARLY wrong -- so you changed the argument. Jantzened.
Still no explanation for why the scraping safety (not defending the pass) is on his heels in perfect position to defend the QB keep - NOT going after Edwards.
You don't understand the game. Even though I explained it to you. Too small. In every way!
MGo did NOT call him a playmaker LIAR ... and good player is something YOU have said they are NOT. Receipt: 1o Nov 4:53PM "You can be a playmaker WITHOUT BEING A GOOD PLAYER" ... that is from this thread! I've got you flipping your position in a matter of days HAHAHAHAHA 😂🤣😂
DeleteDue said "LOOKS like a Read" LIAR ... no one knows WTF or why MICHIGAN is historically against live Reads, not even your selected source 😂🤣😂 Receipt, courtesy of of LyinLank: https://x.com/JDue51/status/1842902953335665123
No one was on their heels, it's something you made up, and then switched to shuffle ... going back to heels only shows how badly I've got you reeeaching
still dodging on how you concluded our WRs are better than Indianas ... no data, all feelings. God, I make this look easy!
LOL. Yeah Due said it looks like a read option and so does Lank. And the defense is playing what looks like a response to a read option. Since we aren't in the huddle we don't know but if it smells like poop and looks like poop it's probably poop. Guess you missed that lesson after dropping out of school.
DeleteLogic isn't your strong suit but now you're denying the video proof. Safety breaks down to be, as he's taught, holding the edge. Flat feet, straight up, reading the mesh point, in perfect position to tackle if the QB keeps. NOT in position to tackle the RB. NOT trying to sack the QB.
Time to bring up Jon Jansen again?
#facts
#woodshed
You lied about Due ... no assumption after that has been evidence to support your lies
Deleteand MGo didn't call Morris a Playmaker ... two lies, exposed by the superior je93
#tooeasy
Due (X's and O's) says Edwards TD looked like a read. Mgoblog says Morris is probably a good player. I said Morris was a playmaker and so do the Alabama DBs now in the NFL that he cooked in the Rose bowl.
DeleteLinks and facts vs denials.
You got any X's and O's to counter the fact that this looks like a read and thus the defense is reacting to what looks like a read?
Delete#emptyhanded again
Two posts, a minute apart ... rentfree!
DeleteDue said LOOKS LIKE ... that is not confirmation
No one has said the D was worried about Reads. No links, no quotes
MGo did NOT say Morris was a playmaker; you lied. No links, no quotes. Just lies
DONE. OVER!
#outsmarted
#dubforJE
Last time, since your just recycling lies:
I gave you X's & O's guys, all three at MGoBlog have it in writing, and have discussed in podcasts. Thunder's OP is what got you started (but have since switched), both Skene & Jansen are former MICHIGAN players, and BOTH Head Coaches
Fact is, they all comment on the Washington D adjusting to the threat of Tuttle passing (a threat that didn't exist with Orji), and NONE have confirmed your claim that 1) the D was worried about QB Reads, and 2) that we actually ran a Live Read. NONE, not even Due, so you lied ... HERE:
Oct 9 8:29AM
Oct 13 3:21PM
Oct 13 8:39PM
Oct 18 1o:56PM
Oct 22 8:35AM
Oct 25 1o:36PM
Nov 2 9:22AM
http://touchthebanner.blogspot.com/2024/10/washington-27-michigan-17.html
I'm following Thunder's intent here. It's been almost two months, and you have failed to prove anything, while dodging bets
Done. You lost, PERIOD
Other than "fire everyone right now!", or "let things run out for three years and reset," what can realistically be done?
ReplyDeleteI think this is tough to really consider right now since we're in the midst of the season. Add 1-2 wins (and possibly a bowl win) and it could change people's minds. Let's just say Michigan beats Indiana (an upset) and Northwestern (expected) but loses to Ohio State (very likely), they'd be 7-5 going into a bowl game. Pull off a win in the bowl - even though I think bowls are meaningless - and suddenly it's an 8-5 year, which doesn't sound too terrible, all things considered.
DeleteRealistically, you can...
- Land Bryce Underwood and/or a good QB who has 1 year of eligibility remaining
- Replace the OC, OL coach, and ST coach (I'm not CALLING for their firings, just saying those would be possibilities)
- Find a good RB, C, OT, WR, DT, and CB in the transfer portal
- Convince Rod Moore to come back for 2025
Thunder,
DeleteIt is realistic to get one of the items you listed as “to-do list” in the offseason but the chances of doing all of the above is practically nil.
Getting starter at DT, OT, WR and CB positions? If we were able to do it, we would hv done it this past offseason.
This is why I think we are going to have another 6-6 or 7-5 season next year. There are just too many holes to fill. Not only players but also coaches.
@ FT 10:22 a.m.
DeleteI don't think that's a pie-in-the-sky list. I think it's very do-able, especially if the narrative is true that NIL has made some serious improvements over the last eight months or so.
You have to remember that Michigan was bringing back Mason Graham and Kenneth Grant (along with Rayshaun Benny), so all the overtures to get a DT weren't to find a starter - they were to find a rotational piece.
As for OT, I don't know how hard Michigan tried, because they had confidence in the guys they were bringing back, including a starter in Myles Hinton who has been Michigan's best lineman this year.
You aren't going to land a good WR in the transfer portal unless/until you shore up the QB position, so getting Underwood or a solid transfer QB would be significant. Nobody wanted to come here for the 2024 season because nobody had any clue what the QB room would look like, and it turns out that was probably a good idea, because Orji/Tuttle/Warren have mostly stunk it up (along with the OL and coaches screwing things up).
As for CB...I would argue they landed a starter in Aamir Hall. He was an FCS All-American and might be okay as a #2 corner. It's just that Jyaire Hill (and Will Johnson) are better. Saturday really stunk for Hall because he was the #1 corner available. But if he's your #2 guy, you can scheme your defense to help him, either by putting a safety over the top, putting him on the weaker receiver, running cloud coverage to just let him play the flat, etc.
With Hinton leaving, there's an opening for a starter. With Johnson (likely) leaving, there's an opening for a starter. With Graham and Grant (likely) leaving, there's an opening for two starters. With no established players at receiver and a better QB (likely) coming in, there are openings for WRs.
This is why I said above that it's a difficult task at this point in the season to assess what can be done moving forward, because we don't truly know what QB will be here, what players are leaving (for the draft, for the transfer portal, etc.), etc. If Bryce Underwood ends up committing to Michigan, that might totally change who you can sign out of high school (Derek Meadows?) or what transfer options might be willing to come catch passes from the #1 QB recruit in the country.
I meant to mention above that Aamir Hall has started three games this season, and he has played 357 snaps, which is #9 on the entire defense. That's a de facto starter role, even if he's technically come "off the bench" in five games.
DeleteThe choice at QB is not limited to a freshman or a grad transfer. It is not 2015 anymore. Many teams are recruiting early enrollees, freshman, sophomores, and juniors with multiple years of eligibility left these days. Michigan has done this at multiple other positions.
DeleteBeyond QB I agree with Thunder's call for a OC, OT, and WR. If they are able to get Giudice, El Hadi, Link, and Gentry back that should be a decent start but Giudice and Link both seem better suited for OG.
Morris does not look like a WR1 candidate as he hasn't seemed to progress since last year. Need more there. I think TE and RB are probably fine with in-house options.
Here is where we can add an impact player back through NIL as well --- get Max Bredeson back for year 5.
--------------------------------------------------------
Defense is tougher.
Not only do you have to find an impact player at DT and DE you also have to talk Benny and Guy into returning for their 5th year. That's just to avoid a total disaster.
Is a proven WR coming to Michigan if they are projected to start a freshman QB behind a makeshift line for a coach whose philosophy is SMASH? Color me skeptical.
DeleteThat seems like something that would appeal more to someone in high school.
We can get a guy like Cornelius Johnson or Dylan Baldwin, but I don't think we're getting an impact NFL caliber WR. We can do better than CJ Charleston and Patrick O'Leary though.
I think you can get a "proven" WR who's early in his career. A guy at a lower level (in the AAC or something) who wants to play at a bigger school, or maybe a rising sophomore or junior who just wants to find a new situation. You're probably not getting a proven fifth year senior who wants to improve his draft stock.
DeleteI think the pitch is pretty easy: "Hey, the last time we had a 5-star quarterback, we rampaged through everyone, our receivers got drafted, and the QB got drafted in the top half of the 1st round."
DeleteThat 5 star was a junior.
DeleteI'm all for getting elite proven underclassmen from AAC or whatever (a WR version of Josiah Stewart), but how many of those are there? And won't Oregon and OSU be after them also?
I'm skeptical. Hope that's unwarranted but I don't see us doing much better than McCully or Baldwin types. I think the QB and the style of play will continue to be something Michigan has to overcome until proven otherwise, to attract high end portal talent.
It's too broad of a question about QBs. Yes, maybe Oregon and OSU will be after them...and maybe not! But Oregon and OSU didn't get Cam Ward, who's leading an undefeated team. Oregon got Dillon Gabriel from a Big 12/SEC school. OSU got Will Howard from a Big 12 school.
DeleteI said AAC as an example. No need to take it quite so literally.
to clarify - I meant the WRs.
DeleteI think we can get a top flight QB from the Portal. Prestige program with $ to spend.
and that will help with WRs too, if it happens.
But if we get Underwood -- I don't see it helping with proven WRs. Recruits? Sure - the future is ahead of them. A proven player? I don't see that guy hitching his wagon to a freshman QB in a Moore/Campbell offense. Pointing to JJ won't help because JJ didn't do anything as a freshman either, and it was not exactly stiff competition he faced.
So to reiterate -- totally onboard with going to AAC/MAC or other lesser conferences -- this is a great way to do well IMO! I just don't see us getting the top target at WR, either from the 2 major conferences or from lesser conferences because the offense will be too questionable unless they land a proven QB first.
A challenge for jellllllly
ReplyDeleteWatch this video.
https://www.nbcsports.com/watch/michigans-donovan-edwards-gets-loose-for-39-yard-td-run-vs-washington
Pause at mesh point at 2 seconds.
Unblocking scraping safety 13 has a direct path to Edwards at the handoff. He is on his heels though. Why?
He has to cut left even though Edwards goes straight ahead. Why?
He can't get to Edwards even though Edwards was going straight ahead, and he doesn't even try to get Edwards until after seeing the give. Why?
When Edwards takes the time to cut to his right, that safety STILL doesn't have time to catch up. In fact he is in better position to tackle Tuttle than Edwards, still, a few steps after the handoff. Why?
If all he cares about is Edwards why is 13 so out of position to tackle Edwards?
If he is defending the pass - why is he on his heels and not attacking the QB droping back?
Why does it LOOK exactly like it would look if he was executing a textbook scrape exchange to force a running QB to give?
https://mgoblog.com/content/what-scrape-exchange
"But what if instead he gets blindsided by a 250-pound H-back?"
Or in this case...Max Bredeson coming around off his motion.
"Rodriguez had a more nefarious plan when Notre Dame was doing this in 2009. He let the DE think he’s unblocked, then pop the dude with a fullback (Asiasi in our case) and charge through the B gap:"
This is what happened jellllllllly. The defense did EXACTLY the thing they would do if they were trying to stop a running QB (like the starter of this game).
Learn the game.
Still waiting on ANY X's and O's analysis of THIS PLAY saying Washington was too busy worrying about defending the pass threat. Somehow.... with deep safety running to the LOS at the snap and man-2-man cover on both WRs outside (cover 0).
As a reminder: here's an Xs and Os guys saying Michigan was running zone read with Tuttle this game, after the TD.
https://x.com/JDue51/status/1842914647097090508
And on the touchdown itself he says it looks like a read play (midline option):
https://x.com/JDue51/status/1842902953335665123
Midline Option is an option play where the Quarterback reads an interior Defensive Lineman to determine whether to hand the ball off or keep it himself.
https://throwdeeppublishing.com/blogs/football-glossary/the-midline-option-the-complete-guide?srsltid=AfmBOorlZgVpD48C9BXjsFrXpHBgZzBOVtjIWNjTrTTqn86oiOEzEvNt
The Due video at 3 seconds shows the same mesh point as the video above. The safety suffles his feet, stops, on his heels, watching the mesh point. Staring directly at Tuttle. Not attacking Tuttle, Not attacking Edwards, doing his job holding the edge as the EMLOS, in case of a QB keep.
Learn the game jelllllllllly.
Until then -- hold up another.
Links. Quotes. Evidence Facts. Proof. vs Fantasies, Dodges, Deflections.
Let me know if you want me to do the deep safety next. As Edwards starts his cut right, that guy is a few yards off the LOS, at LB depth, but he's also a couple yards to the field side while Edwards is at the hash.
In your world both of safeties are overcommitted on the field side (where a QB keep could go) instead of the boundary (where the RB goes) or even instead of the hash (where the RB is pointed) because the RB MIGHT go where he didn't go. But nobody agrees with you and you have no evidence to support it betboy.
#jantzen
#2o24
#2ooSMALL
That's the same video from Due you lied about six weeks ago ... but he wrote "LOOKS LIKE" ... lying again changes nothing
DeleteWhich is it? Was the Safety on his heels or shuffling? Not even YOU agree with YOU ... yet another self own 😂🤣😂
*show me where I said Safety 13 was playing the pass ... I didn't - busted in another lie! He blitzed, responsible for the field side. If the RB or a Slot carrying the ball were coming to the Left, he is responsible ...
"In your world both of safeties are overcommitted on the field side"
another LIE ... that was YOU when this whole thing started
"The Edwards TD run was opened by the QB run threat" and "But Tuttle run threat gets the second level STEPPING TO THE FIELD SIDE"
You were wrong then, and you're wrong now, so you lie and claim it's me. Receipts: Oct 7 1:o5PM: https://touchthebanner.blogspot.com/2024/10/washington-27-michigan-17.html?m=1
Hahahahahahaha ... I legit got this boy trying to switch sides 😂🤣😂
You were challenged and you could not answer one single question.
DeleteYou failed.
Did you find one Xs and Os person to agree with you on the play?
You did not.
Did I find one?
I did.
Instead you're chopping quotes to fantasize about winning an argument.
Now the safety is worried about stopping the slot WR (Max Bredeson on this play??) from running the ball LOL. Flat footed, behind the LOS, staring directly at the QB, but worried about the pass or Bredeson running or Edwards going not the way he is going.....anything to avoid saying the thing that he is there to stop.
The threat to the field side is the QB keep.
The inconvenient fact.
A lie to you, because your only truth is your fantasy of being right.
You failed yet again.
No one is surprised.
Hope you enjoyed your return to the woodshed.