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FORMER PLAYERS
TE Erick All (Iowa): All caught 3 passes for 32 yards in a 20-13 win over Iowa State.
WR Andrel Anthony (Oklahoma): Anthony caught 7 passes for 76 yards and 1 touchdown in a 28-11 win over SMU. He is now OU's leading receiver with 10 catches for 142 yards and 1 score on the year.
Gabriel ➡️ Anthony ➡️ The House.@andrel_jr | #BoomerSoonerpic.twitter.com/aq65xUixKE
— πΊπππππππ ππ. πΏππ πππππ (@soonergridiron) September 9, 2023
QB Alan Bowman (Oklahoma State): Bowman completed 11/16 passes for 113 yards in a 27-15 win over Arizona State. He also ran 2 times for -5 yards. He's in a real battle for the QB job as OSU played three quarterbacks in a relatively tight game.
Hit the jump for more.
S Damani Dent (Charlotte): Dent did not record any stats in a 38-20 loss to Maryland.
CB Darion Green-Warren (Nevada): Green-Warren did not record any stats in a 33-6 loss to FCS Idaho.
TE Louis Hansen (UConn): Hansen caught 1 pass for 18 yards in a 35-14 loss to Georgia State.
QB Ren Hefley (Middle Tennessee): Hefley did not play in a 23-19 loss to Missouri.
WR A.J. Henning (Northwestern): Henning had 4 carries for 35 yards and 1 touchdown, along with 2 catches for 16 yards, in a 38-7 win over UTEP.
Birthday Celly π
— All-American Bowl (@AABonNBC) September 9, 2023
2020 All-American AJ Henning (@AJHenning3) uses his speed to get into the end zone. #AllAmericanBowl πΊπΈ
pic.twitter.com/eJkx9C7Zwe
LB Nikhai Hill-Green (Charlotte): Hill-Green made 6 tackles and 1 tackle for loss in a 38-20 loss to Maryland.
WR Giles Jackson (Washington): Jackson did not play in a 43-10 win over Tulsa.
CB George Johnson III (UMass): Johnson caught 7 passes for 50 yards and 1 touchdown in a 41-28 loss to Miami-OH.
DE Aaron Lewis (Rutgers): Lewis made 3 tackles and 1 quarterback hurry in a 36-7 win over Temple.
QB Cade McNamara (Iowa): McNamara completed 12/22 passes for 123 yards, 0 touchdowns, and 1 interception in a 20-13 win over Iowa State. He also had 1 carry for -3 yards.
QB Joe Milton (Tennessee): Milton completed 21/33 passes for 228 yards and 2 touchdowns, plus 3 carries for 7 yards and 1 touchdown, in a 30-13 win over Austin Peay.
S Jordan Morant (Mississippi State): Morant did not play in a 31-24 win over Arizona.
S R.J. Moten (Florida): Moten made 1 tackle in a 49-7 victory over McNeese State.
DE Eyabi Okie-Anoma (Charlotte): Okie-Anoma made 6 tackles in a 38-20 loss to Maryland.
DT George Rooks (Boston College): Rooks made 1 tackle in a 31-28 win over Holy Cross.
CB Andre Seldon (New Mexico State): Seldon made 6 tackles in a 33-17 loss to Liberty.
CB Myles Sims (Georgia Tech): Sims made 1 tackle in a 39-14 win over South Carolina State.
LB Deuce Spurlock (Florida): Spurlock did not play in a 49-7 win over McNeese State.
RB Christian Turner (Indiana): Turner had 3 carries for 11 yards and 1 touchdown in a 41-7 win over Indiana State.
π @IndianaFootball extends the lead thanks to Christian Turner! pic.twitter.com/sVgW9oqSGd
— FOX College Football (@CFBONFOX) September 9, 2023
DE Taylor Upshaw (Arizona): Upshaw made 1 tackle in a 31-24 loss to Mississippi State.
TE Dan Villari (Syracuse): Villari made 1 catch for 8 yards in a 48-7 win over Western Michigan.
DE Julius Welschof (Charlotte): Welschof did not record any stats in a 38-20 loss to Maryland.
LB Cornell Wheeler (Kansas): Wheeler did not play in a 34-23 win over Illinois.
FORMER COMMITS
DE Collins Acheampong (Miami): Acheampong did not play in a 48-33 win over Texas A&M.
LB Aaron Alexander (Michigan State): Alexander made 2 tackles in a 45-14 win over Richmond
RB Tim Baldwin, Jr. (UMass): Baldwin did not play in a 41-28 loss to Miami-OH.
DE Ethan Burke (Texas): Burke made 4 tackles, 2 tackles for loss, and 1 sack in a 34-24 win over Alabama.
CB Te'Cory Couch (Miami): Couch made 4 tackles, 1 interception, 1 quarterback hurry, and 1 pass breakup in a 48-33 win over Texas A&M. The interception ended a last-minute comeback attempt near the goal line.
Te’Cory Couch with a game ending interception!! π₯π₯π₯ pic.twitter.com/eQRpmMwJsD
— QSportsMedia (@QSportsMedia2) September 9, 2023
S Taylor Groves (Ole Miss): Groves did not play in a 37-20 win over Tulane.
OLB Stephen Herron, Jr. (Louisville): Herron made 1 tackle, 1 tackle for loss, and 1 quarterback hurry in a 56-0 win over Murray State.
LB Tyler Martin (UMass): Martin made 1 tackle in a 41-28 loss to Miami-OH.
DT Davonte Miles (Bowling Green State): Miles made 2 tackles in a 38-15 win over Eastern Illinois.
TE Andrew Rappleyea (Penn State): Rappleyea did not play in a 63-7 win over Delaware.
S Myles Rowser (New Mexico State): Rowser made 5 tackles in a 33-17 loss to Liberty.
DT Quintin Somerville (UCLA): Somerville did not play in a 35-10 win over San Diego State.
DT Alex VanSumeren (Michigan State): VanSumeren did not record any stats in a 45-14 win over Richmond.
DT Denver Warren (New Mexico State): Warren did not play in a 33-17 loss to Liberty.
LB Raylen Wilson (Georgia): Wilson made 2 tackles in a 45-3 win over Ball State.
WR Xavier Worthy (Texas): Worthy made 5 catches for 75 yards and 1 touchdown in a 34-24 upset win over Alabama.
And there’s the big-play ability from Xavier Worthy. One of the fastest players in college football pic.twitter.com/llyY1ZULV2
— Steve Palazzolo (@PFF_Steve) September 10, 2023
FORMER COACHES
Don Brown (Head Coach, UMass): UMass fell to 1-2 after a 41-28 loss to Miami-OH.
Jedd Fisch (Head Coach, Arizona): Fisch fell to 1-1 after a 31-24 loss to Mississippi State.
Brady Hoke (Head Coach, San Diego State): Hoke and his Aztecs lost to UCLA by a score of 35-10 and dropped to 2-1.
Mo Linguist (Head Coach, Buffalo): Linguist lost to FCS Fordham by a score of 40-37.
Scot Loeffler (Head Coach, Bowling Green State): Loeffler and his Falcons moved to 1-1 with a 38-15 win over Eastern Illinois.
Curt Mallory (Head Coach, Indiana State): Mallory and his Indiana State Sycamores are 0-2 now after a 41-7 loss to Indiana.
Jim McElwain (Head Coach, Central Michigan): McElwain and his Chips beat New Hampshire by a score of 45-42 to move to 1-1.
Biff Poggi (Head Coach, Charlotte): Charlotte was up early by a score of 14-0, but they ultimately fell to Maryland, 38-20. Charlotte is now 1-1.
Rich Rodriguez (Head Coach, Jacksonville State): Jacksonville State dropped to 2-1 after a 30-16 loss to Coastal Carolina.
Tyrone Wheatley (Head Coach, Wayne State): Wheatley moved to 1-1 with a 31-24 win over Missouri S&T.
Cheering for aj Henning to have a nice year.
ReplyDeleteTrying but failing to forget about those two guys at Texas almost being wolverines
Through 5 years of college football, Giles Jackson will have totals of 60 receptions, 29 rushes, and 96 kick/punt returns. The young man has talent but he does not appear to be much of a wide receiver. Similar to AJ Henning he's neither a true RB nor a true WR but nonetheless a guy who it's nice to get the ball to. Henning has 31 receptions, 21 rushes, and 76 kick/punt returns.
DeleteJackson is going to red-shirt and presumably in line to return for a 6th year (somewhere). Henning has a role in an already lost season for Northwestern but will have a 5th year option next year if he wants it.
It'll be interesting to me to watch these two "speed in space" skill players finish out their careers, even though it won't be at Michigan.
Already lost season for Northwestern? They trounced UTEP. Surely they're headed on a path to winning the Big Ten West.
DeleteRutgers might just be that good!
Delete*This is mostly a joke but ... Rutger might be the 3rd best team on our schedule?
They played us fairly tough the last couple times. They cracked Cade 3 years ago and seemed to hang around longer than I wanted last year before we got a couple of picks sixes in a row if I remember.
DeleteThis feature is fun to read. It takes time to look up and compile, and I appreciate the effort. With the transfer portal in full swing, this may grow too big to manage, but for now it's great to have this summary.
ReplyDeleteIt's kind of fun to compile, especially when there are some fun highlights to watch while I put it together. The annoying part is when I feel obligated to look up the stats for Amauri Pesek-Hickson at some JUCO somewhere.
DeleteYou should not feel obligated. LOL
DeleteI very much doubt your readers would mind if the ex-commits list was a smattering of random guys-of-note you happened to be interested in tracking.
Better get all those ex-players right though! LOL
Jedd has a HC gig, that is the good news.
ReplyDeleteIt is at Arizona where coaching careers go to die.
You only take an Arizona coaching job to get one last payday because you know that is end.
Tony Gibson is the DC for NCST, not sure if it THAT Tony Gibson, part of those train wreck Defenses of RR years.
Yes, it is that Tony Gibson. I don't spend much time mentioning the coordinators and position coaches, because that makes the list really big.
DeleteI think Fisch will be at Arizona for another year or so and then head somewhere to be a decent OC again.
My over/under on Fisch's head coaching gig was 2 years so credit to him for making it to year 3. If he makes it to year 4 it would be the first time he last that long, anywhere, during his entire career.
DeleteMichigan fan affinity for Fisch continues to baffle me but I guess it can be argued he got the most out of Wilton Speight. But he also had an offense with NFL players at RB, TE, and WR. And an OL inherited from Brady Hoke who fixed our woes from the Rodriguez era (OK that part's sarcastic, but the OL wasn't awful during Fisch's time).
I find this kind of job hopping and lack of accountability or major accomplishments to be skepticism-inducing, but the guy keeps getting hired so he must know something.
Regarding Arizona ... I live in Tucson, so I have *some* (not a lot, but some) insight into the state of football at UofA. First, UofA is a basketball school first and foremost; football is, in large part, a second thought. Second, Tucson is not a very 'happening' town for a young football player from outside of Arizona. The surrounding landscape looks like the back side of the moon, and the town very quickly stretches into houses with older people living in them, including me. I'm not saying it's the worst possible college town location, but to draw even good talent requires some extra recruiting mojo.
DeleteI figured the 120F game day temperatures might have had something to do with it. Who wants to play in that?
DeleteRR had some success there and it really didn't translate to a bump in recruiting or fan support. UA was playing a high ranked USC, the stands were 30% full, UA was winning in the second half, word started to spread around campus and stands fill ups in forth quarter. UA the only school PAC 10 (rip) never to go to a rose bowl.
Tucson is hard like Morgantown is hard. Not impossible, but not easy. Any talent that has a choice of going to a geriatric desert town, or some place more urban and pleasant, is going someplace more pleasant. If Urban Meyer lost his mind and came out of retirement to coach Arizona would he attract talent? Yeah, probably, at first ... but my guess is he'd be a 8-4 coach there, and he'd get 8-4 talent. Particularly in this age of NIL.
DeleteUSC gets good talent because southern California is loaded with talent. Try to pull the best of that talent out of beautiful southern California to go to Tucson. Go ahead. Try. Good luck.
Oregon had Nike and lots and lots of cash floating around. Not all of that cash ended up in uniforms and shoes, if you know what I mean.
Fair point about Oregon but Arizona is not exactly cash poor, as we've seen in basketball. And Oregon was a track school, not football, so being good at one thing doesn't preclude the other.
DeleteWisconsin is a different story. No tradition, terrible weather, yet they've built that program into a powerhouse. Credit goes mostly to one guy who turned that thing around. Arguably more impressive than what Bo did at Michigan.
You're not going to outrecruit USC based on weather but you can certainly draw kids from ACC humidity, midwest winters, and pacific rain. A lot of people are attracted to the desert sun and warm winters and Texas is one state over.
I'm not saying they are massively advantaged, I just don't think the disadvantages are anything more than speedbumps compared to most power 5 schools that are looking to level up into perennial top 25 status. They are all one coaching hire away.
Cade is still Cade
ReplyDeleteMilton started 1of8 and 1.4YPA
Ethan Burke is gonna be a good one ... as flashy as Worthy is, Burke is the guy I expect to see blow up in the NFL. Dude stood out, even against a ginourmous Bama OL
Interesting. How'd Joe finish?
DeleteMcNamara is still McNamara and Joe is still Joe. What that means -- YMMV.
Unimpressive, considering the opponent
Delete@JE
DeleteThe answer (if your stats are real) is 20/25 for 217 yards and over 8ypa. Which is impressive against any opponent.
Though I agree Joe had an off day overall, and in light of his past concerns and his age could be a red flag for his NFL draft prospects, there's a lot of season left for the pre-season Heisman contender. Cherry-picking stats of one game for a guy with 5 years of track record sounds like you have an axe to grind.
So let's try a different question.
Who do you think is the better QB between Milton and McNamara?
I don't have SECNetwork, but here's a 10min highlight:
Deletehttps://youtu.be/NH81Ivw7-Rw?si=cOhnQoh3Vd3_JBf_
Missing is downfield attempts. Instead, Milton's "highlights" in an Airraid offense is a QB draw and a couple throws behind the line of scrimmage ... against an o-2 FCS team that gave up much more against So Illinois last week
As for Cade v Joe? I mean they were on the same team, playing against the same opponents. Cade was clearly much better. But with Cade's ceiling that of a game manager, I could see why Milton has the greater potential
Who is better now in 2023? Not 2020, not 2028 prediction, now.
DeleteMilton started inaccurate plus wr drops so they leaned into Easy short stuff. Not very air raid this week. Over matched opponent
Delete2 games in? I don't think either is very good ... apples & oranges apply too, since cade is playing FerentzBall & Joe in an Airraid
DeleteSo I default to their head to head and resume
I don't understand the disagreement:
DeleteYou say Milton was impressive, but agree he had an off day
You say we have five years to go off of, but only want to talk 2023
Seems argumentative for the sake of disagreeing, while saying I have an axe to grind
GO BLUE
LOL. JE is still JE.
DeleteWhat I was actually angling for was a good-natured/light-hearted bet on McNamara vs Milton since it seems we have a different perspective on the current state of things. Not an argument about his performance last game.
The point about the stats was that you can slice them one way or another and reach a different conclusion. I sliced the 3/4 of the game where Milton had impressive stats as a contrast to your 1/4 of the game where he didn't. You "lied" and said the numbers are unimpressive in the 3/4 of the game you ignored in your OP.
My point was not a statement about his entire game being impressive - it was about cherry-picked stats. Then I added on the point about his overall game, which brings both together.
The bet I'm angling for is would be about who is the better and more effective college QB now. They went back and forth in 2020 when injuries struck them both - Joe started as starter and Cade finished as starter. Cade got 2021 on Joe. Joe got 2022 on Cade. 2023 is open to speculation without a lot of projection needed - both these dudes played yesterday.
Who is better is open to interpretation. I personally think the last 5 years tell us clearly that Milton is better, all things considered. But many Michigan fans would weigh 2020 and 2021 heavily in Cade's favor.
Air Raid vs Ferentz should affect volume stats but shouldn't affect some things like efficiency, completion percentage, NFL stock, etc. So I was getting around to the framework for a bet but I think based on what you wrote you've already softened your stance and don't really want to confidently back Cade over Joe. Good for you.
Not even YOU agree with you ... was it impressive or was Milton off?
DeleteWhat did I lie about? I think his performance against a crap FCS team was unimpressive. Half his yards came from passes behind the LoS; he was only 45% on pass attempts beyond the LoS; 10 of 11 behind the LoS though ... you yourself acknowledge he was innacurate, and that the Airraid got scrapped for the short stuff ... we're not talking about a TrFR facing UGA, but a SIXTH Year Senior against Austin Pray. Not even Lank agrees with Lank
What did I lie about? Are you projecting? Because they didn't go back & forth. Harbaugh benched Joe in favor of a small RSFr Cade McNamara. Joe then got benched in Knoxville. Three years after debuting as the MICHIGAN starting QB, he is the #1QB in the room ... during that time, Cade won a B1G title and made the playoffs. That's not a back & forth π
Oh, and NO. I would not bet on a FerentzBall offense, even if it were against a Rutgers offense
You're not paying attention. Milton was bad to start - as your cut of the stats showed. The stats for the rest of the game were impressive. That's what I asked you about. Specifically. If you say 80% completion percentage and 8 ypa is not impressive you are lying.
DeleteThere is A. Then there is B. I am trying here to circle back to a point of agreement on the total of A + B but you don't want to accept that. That's fine.
Nobody is asking you to bet on Ferentz LOL.
DeleteNobody is asking you to rehash history (especially since you're cherry picking facts again). But if you want to go there here you go.
Here is a fact - Milton was offered by Heupel and Tennessee...and a bunch of other school. McNamara was offered by Ferentz and Iowa...and a bunch other schools. They each made their choice. McNamara said they were going to open up the offense with him at the helm. He chose his own path. Milton chose his.
Milton was offered by an SEC powerhouse and blue blood program and one of the better offensive minds in college football. Was Cade?
Now I don't know who all offered Cade of course but I know for a fact that he doesn't like competition. He said it, he showed it, and the recent article detailing the background on the transfer talked about it. How he was completely unwilling to help JJ and created a toxic culture in the QB room. Now contrast that with Joe and his relationship with Hendon Hooker, or how he was willing to compete behind Patterson and McCaffrey and wait for his turn.
Point is - these guys were randomly thrown into an air raid and into a conservative dinking ball control offense. They are recruited for and chose the system that fits their skills and lack thereof. So yeah there's a reason one guy is Ferentz and the other is Heupel.
Now let's compare performance.
The 2020 stats are not far apart. Joe started the year beating Cade and Cade finished the year taking Joe's job (post-injury). Cade started...1 game. So sample size matters here but the team stunk most of the time with either guy. Yes with Cade too, outside of those 2 quarters against...checks notes...Rutgers.
2021 goes to Cade of course but a) Michigan spent half the year being terrified to have him throw the ball, b) Michigan was a dramatically better team and QB was a very small part of that, and c) Milton's competition was a 5th year senior drafted into the NFL and Cade's was a true freshman. Apples and Oranges? I think so.
2022 goes to Milton. He got the starting job late in the year and beat Clemson in the Orange Bowl. He put up great stats and got a offseason Heisman hype off that performance and how he closed the season. Cade lost his job, got injured, tucked tail to Iowa, and talked shit about Michigan on his way out of town. Which Milton - who proudly lists Michigan alum on his twitter bio - never did. He had far more reason to think he got a raw deal.
So yeah, Cade's got a Big Ten championship that Michigan won with him. No one can take that away, but Michigan won it either with him or despite him and Joe's got an Orange Bowl win over Clemson on his resume - more impressive than any W on Cade's considering his modest contributions at OSU.
Their career yardage totals are within 200 yards of each other (edge Cade), TDs are close 25 to 29 (edge Joe), completion percentage is 62 vs 59 (edge Cade), YPA is 8.3 vs 7.4 (edge Joe), and passer rating 145 vs 137 is edge Joe. Joe is not a great runner but he's not a liability like Cade. Interceptions? Cade has 8 and Joe has 6. We'll call it a tie since Cade has a slight edge in yards and a bigger edge in attempts. Anyway, Joe is considered a mid-round NFL pick and darkhorse Heisman contender and Cade is neither.
I am paying attention, but your spin isn't working. ONE completion beyond the sticks. An Airraid offense shutdown and played like Russell Bellamy was facing a title contender in a hostile environment. MAYBE the Tennessee offense took the day off ahead of their trip to The Swamp. MAYBE Joe - the WRs were sick. I don't know,and concede it is just one game. But there's nothing impressive about reducing your high octane attack to bubbles screens & flat routes
DeleteCheck for yourself:
https://youtu.be/dHz4CizFXv4?si=drynWE0UDhw269Kh
That's a funny story. Joe left MICHIGAN when he got benched. Joe also talked sh:t on the way out, about "hangin 50" on MICHIGAN ... then he got benched again. You talk about cherry picking, but how did Joe get the starting job? He didn't win it in 22, his QB1 got injured ... all the facts Lank, not just the ones you like
Watch that Austin Peay game, and tell us what impresses you
False. Hanging 50 isn't a fact. It's a rumor. Check the source...
DeleteGetting benched is though... For hendon hooker. Covered above.
I'm bored now. let me know if you want to have some fun and bet. It could go either way. Cade could get hurt tomorrow. Joe could get benched again.
My "money" is on Joe, not the spoiled kid trashing my program. I think he's a better player. I wandered after 2021 but I'm back on team joe. also I like his resilience and support for team mates. I've seen both leadership styles in life and they can both work but I admire and succeed with the version that doesn't tear down the people on my side. To each his own though
Agree on boring, but so is a straight up bet. Historically, a Josh Huepel offense is always more productive than a ferentz offense
DeleteHow about if we keep things relative: which QB makes the bigger difference between this year & last (or we can go back up to five years)? Wins & Losses, completion percentage, QBR, TD-INT ratio, you name it ... $1oo donation to TTB. Bet?
I see so you want to compare one guy relative to Hendon Hooker and the other to Spencer Petra? 11 wins vs 8. That does not exactly seem like an authentic proposition.
DeleteI think both guys are firmly between those 2 completely different players. So l pass on that idea, let me know if you want to compare Joe or Cade head to head. There's ways to account for system.
Again, they chose their destination. It speaks to ability. If the distinction between cade and Joe was clear, you wouldn't be asking to grade on a curve.
On other words cade makes Iowa better and Milton is very likely a downgrade from hooker. I don't see a disagreement there
DeleteVERY likely
DeleteHow about two bets? Iowa is (%) with Cade AND Milton gets benched?
I'll let you recommend the progress cade must lead to be worthy of a bet
I don't know what you are proposing TBH. This is about Milton and McNamara, not Petras and Hooker.
DeleteI'm proposing a head to head comparison of completion percentage, or yards per attempt, or QBR, or TD-INT ratio for this season. Unlike yardage, these are not stats that should be all that different between an air raid and a ball control offense. They are all passing efficiency stats essentially, and ignore rushing superiority. Which puts the thumb on the scale in favor of Cade to offset any system benefit that may be benefitting Joe. (Which again, he earned, not a random thing.)
Anyway, completion percentage is one that seems like it could be straightforward.
Cade is a career 62% passer to Joe's 59%.
Joe is currently ahead 67% to 56% this year.
But if you think he's going to get benched you can feel confident that number will plummet as competition ramps up. Joe has 2 cupcakes and Cade faced ISU. Once Joe's facing real competition - and Tenn has Georgia, Alabama, Florida and TAMU on the schedule - you can expect the number to drop. Or can you? Joe completed 68% against Clemson.
Anyway, Iowa does not play Michigan or OSU but does get PSU. I would say their schedule is less intimidating. Especially for a game manager type. Cade should have no reason not to be racking up completions to All and Lachey. No reason unless he stinks that is.
So whatever system differences you see should be well covered considering self-selection of context, level of competition, ignoring rushing abilitym and your claims that Milton is so terrible that he should have gone to D3 to earn a starting gig and will get benched again(?).
There is no josh Huepel offense that performs worse than a Brian/Kirk Ferentz offense ... superior play design, play calling and WRs/RBs who can YAC the hell out of the stat sheet (see Austin Peay details above). Even if Cade were "okay," I would imagine pedestrian numbers
DeleteSo what I am proposing is two bets:
1) compare Cade to previous Ferentz offenses (already better). I get why you wouldn't want to compare Joe to previous Huepel offenses, because he's already forcing a game of screens while avoiding the defense's side of the ball
2) to make the first bet more enticing, the Joe Milton part of the very is simple: just don't get benched
I think this is fair, and would be happy to eat crow if wrong
I'm interested in betting Milton McNamara not Petras and hooker. At least we agree the superior team and superior offense chose Milton and vice versa. That's not an accident.
DeleteWe've had McNamara v Milton. Same team, same offense, same opponents. We know who got fired
DeleteSpinning to recruiting offers doesn't change that. Huepel is a QB guy, and has taken six QBs since Milton, three from the portal. Dude casts a big net, and wants a bench full of competition, which Joe occupied for the first two in Knoxville
It's funny that this started with you saying I had an axe to grind because I listed Joe's opening stats ... coach huelel mentions ONE offensive player from the game, and is not impressed. He even pointed out the lackluster start. Instead, he points out that Joe was "off" ... that's what you said, while disagreeing that it was not impressive. Coach doesn't agree with you. Not even YOU agree with you π
Deletehttps://youtu.be/yRr3dHWEoe4?si=WtrwMtB3l38ZUeu_
User "Lank" is very knowledgeable about football, but he seems to *love* argumentative discussions. He seems to take contrarian positions for the sport of it. It's a bit of a shame since when he resists that urge, some of his posts here are quite interesting. But the "I'm going to argue" posts get tiring.
DeleteI'll be more direct since you struggle. 1/8 is misleading and doesn't tell the story. Milton was off but still quite productive. He just needed help to do it which is a familiar story for Cade in 2021. Remember when we used to play what you called HARBALL?
DeleteMilton and McNamara both got injured and passed over at Michigan. They did not face the same opponents nor did they play meaningful downs with the same team, except once - Rutgers. The team that started the year at Minnesota (when Joe thrived) was not the same team that finished the year at PSU (when Cade stunk). Cade will always have Rutgers and the young man stood up there. That's why he won the job. But as people in the program said Joe was not put in a position to succeed. He was injured also, but didn't go crying on podcasts to complain about it.
The recruiting offers are relevant. Cade's best option was Iowa - a famously inept offense run by a notoriously limp coordinator with some of the worst WR talent in the Power 5. Joe's best option was - the exact opposite of that. That means something - sorry if you can't see that.
Joe has been inconsistent throughout his career and that's on him. But Harbaugh chose him over Cade and McCaffrey after 2019 and Heupel chose him over Hooker and Iamaeleva after 2020 and 2022 respectively. Inconsistency got him fired, as you put it, twice - but he's landed on his feet both times.
You expect a third firing and that's justified based on history, but I think the endorsements and his track record (after 5 years) point in a positive direction.
You want to cherry-pick and point out whenever Milton struggles. There's a reason for that. You know better than I do but it's clear there's an axe there.
And to be clear I have an "axe to grind" of sorts with Cade. I don't like him. There are a lot of reasons for that. I appreciate his work ethic and his contributions to the 2021 team, but the way he left town crapping on the program in public, the way he handled the entire 2022 competition, the way he undermined JJ throughout are all red flags to me. He's a spoiled rich kid with every advantage. Then acts entitled and unfairly treated when he doesn't win.
DeleteJake Rudock didn't do that when he lost out in Iowa. Joe Milton didn't do it when he lost at Michigan. And on and on.
AND, this part doesn't contribute to my disliking him, it's just funny, he bragged about how Iowa was going to open the offense with him at the helm. How's that going?
Kids are kids and people make mistakes but at 22 or 23 years old your character is pretty well into being ready to come out of the oven.
Anyway Cade and Erik All are on record wanting to see Michigan this year. I'm usually a Iowa football appreciator but not this year.
@Anon. You don't have to read.
DeleteI like to argue and take contrarian positions? I agree!
Never denied that.
Sometimes the common perceptions are wrong. It's quite common.
All that to say ... nothing?
DeleteCoach Huepel wasn't impressed either. His comments mirrored mine
But you are arguing because I wasn't impressed with his 36.3 QBR. That's fine, let's move on
Go Blue
It's to say you are lying and you continue to lie. Huepel's comments don't mirror yours. They mirror mine.
DeleteMilton started 1of8 and 1.4YPA. This is not just unimpressive. It is terrible, awful, worthy of benching....Had it continued!
Which it didn't. Milton finished (assuming your math and my quick math based off it was right) - 20/25 for 217 yards and over 8ypa. Which is impressive. Yes - those (cherry-picked) results are impressive, even if it's mostly off short passes.
Taking the whole game in total, the awful start and then settling into productive but easy stuff, it was what I said it was. "Joe had an off day overall". 36.3 tells that story.
THAT is what Heupel is reacting to. Not going 20/25, not going 1/8, but 21/33.
""At the end of the day, you have to point out what needs to be corrected," explained Heupel. "You have to be truthful in what you're seeing as a coach, and players understand that too. They see it, they recognize it, and he understands the game. Great thing about Joe is he's really been making really sound decisions. That's in our run-pass option, it's in our drop back. We as skill players, that can be wideouts, tight ends, running backs and him, just have to be a little bit better at times. Plan on us executing better this week."
"That's throwing it a little bit better, and that's catching it a little bit better. There are big chunks of yardage and open grass for us to go make. Joe will tell you that he has to hit a couple of those. We have to go make a play out on the perimeter."
These are all points worthy of agreement considering the game overall. If the 1/8 start was a gamelong situation and not just a bad start the conversation would be very different.
The point is you cherry-picked stats. If your goal was to say Joe had an off game you would have just said that - 36.3 QBR was right there. But you didn't, because you want to exaggerate a narrative that you'd like to see. You can pretend like the point was that I was saying Joe had an impressive game -- but scroll on up for receipts.
Nice try but no.
Nowhere in the huepel quote is a statement that Joe was impressive ... you're spinning
DeleteThere is however, criticism. There is also a point that the game plan for a bad FCS opponent had to be modified to screens & avoidance of downfield attempts
Nice try Lank
Huepel is talking about the game as a whole. NOBODY said Joe had an impressive game.
DeleteCherry-picked stats where either awful or impressive depending on where you draw a line near the start or the finish.
You know this. But you want to keep arguing with a strawman so go on.
This started bc you were insulted on behalf of Milton about me NOT being impressed
Delete*LankSeptember 10, 2023 at 3:45 PM literally calls his stats impressive ...
And there it is: we've gone full circle, and the lies are added to the gaslighting
I'm out. GO BLUE
Scroll up.
DeleteJE: Milton started 1of8 and 1.4YPA
L: Interesting. How'd Joe finish?
JE: Unimpressive, considering the opponent
L: 20/25 for 217 yards and over 8ypa. Which is impressive against any opponent.
Note we are talking about the stats that Joe FINISHED with. Not the start of the game, not the whole game, the finish.
Then we pivot to a conversation about his game as a whole and your head explodes.
If you want a Cade-specific bet, we can set the bar at their last NFL QB at Iowa CJ Beathard whose 2015 season was 62% completion percentage, 7.8 ypa, 17-5 TDs, and a passer rating of 140. Cade topped most of those modest numbers already, a couple years ago in a Josh Gattis offense you mocked.
ReplyDeleteI don't think he'll get there nor do I think Brian Ferentz will be the reason why.
You're picking the 2015 undefeated Hawkeyes? Talk about cherry-picking ... how about 2016? Still a long time ago, and a far better OC than Brian Ferentz, but I'll let you keep CJ Beathard. Couple that with what should be an easy bet: Joe only has to not get benched
DeleteTwo subpar QBs, two low expectations
LOL. Yep it's 100% cherry-picked. Iowa does not have good QBs, ever. Even their goat Chuck Long was a notorious NFL bust.
DeleteBut if we're going to be crediting Cade as leading the team to big ten championship and comparing people to NFL-draft-worthy predecessors...
Like I said - there's no doubt McNamara is a substantial upgrade over Petras. That's not saying much. Nor is saying Milton isn't as good as Hooker. The gap between Petras and Hooker is MASSIVE. System can explain some things - it can't explain that.
I'll bet Joe doesn't get benched. He faces much stiffer competition than Cade and unlike Cade his goal isn't to undermine them. Milton is competing with a 5-star recruit. I think he'll stay ahead but you know how these things can go...and so does Cade.
Now you're going back 40yrs ... just say NO Lank
DeleteYou say Milton is going to play poorly enough to get benched yet you don't trust him to perform better than Cade. That's an interesting view.
DeleteBecause Joe is feast or famine. ANY quarterback playing for Huepel is almost certain to outperform a QB for Ferentz. History backs this
DeleteBut if he doesn't, it's because Joe got himself benched, for the third time in his long career ... I'd put odds at about 35-65 that he doesn't play the entire season as QB1
We can agree to disagree, but I know you enjoy this, and I am here to support civil disagreement
So if Joe is almost certain to outperform Cade because of where they are at, why did Cade chose Iowa and why did Joe choose Tenn? Is Cade dumb and Joe smart? Remember you recommended Joe go to D3. Do you admit that was a bad take?
DeleteHistory backs that Alabama wins more games than Vanderbilt - which is why Alabama continues to bring in better players than Vanderbilt. There's a reason Cade is at Iowa and Joe is at Tenn. I'll tell it to you -- Joe is the better QB.
I absolutely agree with Joe Milton having a track record of inconsistency. That's his issue to overcome.
I would say playing a bad half and coming back for a good second half might be a good sign for that. But we'll see. Heupel praised his decision-making, as a basketball coach would do for a shooter who is having an off day and decides to focus on creating shots, rebounding, and defense for the rest of the game.
I'd put the odds at more like 15/85 than 35/65 but I think we more or less agree on Milton possibly getting benched. I think we'll have a much better sense of this after a road game to Florida this week as opposed to compare halves against a cupcake. Tenn hasn't won in Gainsville in something like 20 years.
If Joe starts cold again the hook might be coming. If he's managing the game in a hostile environment they won't throw a freshman in there. Will be interesting to watch.
We'd have to speculate, but Huepel has pulled six QBs in the last three cycles (recruiting & portal). His Airraid offense requires casting a bigger net
DeleteI stand by my suggestion that Joe may have been better off going the Cam Newton route. He has elite arm strength but was really bad in every other aspect. Starter reps & experience is a great cure for that, and would have kept him off the bench AND more prepared to contribute upon returning to bigboy football
Not sure what Newton route means or the timing you envisioned but he started 10 games between 2020 and 2022 seasons. Of course you know the COVID year 2020 story so maybe you mean after that. In 2021 he got starters reps in fall practice and started the first 2 games and was unseated due to injury. After that he got Pipped by Hooker. Maybe you mean after that, but even so he stepped in to start 3 games last year with plenty of starters rep in practice through most of Nov and all of Dec.
DeleteIt's a hypothetical, but typically taking the easy road isn't better preparation for a challenge.
@JE
ReplyDeleteIf we're grading 2023 QBs on a curve of past history. Here are Hendon Hooker (future 3rd Round NFL pick, Heisman finalist, and 1st team all SEC QB) did last time Tenn made the trip down to Gainsville:
13/23 for 221 yards and 2 TDs with a QBR of 59.9
13 rushes for 23 yards
That's a 10pt drop in QBR... yikes
Delete