I might be in the minority, but I'm sure I'm not the only Michigan fan interested in seeing how Rich Rodriguez does in Arizona. The blog Pre-Snap Readpreviews the 2012 Arizona Wildcats.
Their school may not have the scholarship of UM, not have the athletic tradition or a beautiful campus. However, after 34 years of living inA2, I can say that the female talent at AZ is way better.
I live in Tucson and attended the spring scrimmage. Based on almost no inside information my guess is we'll see UA go 4-8 or 5-7 this year. Rodriguez is always searching for the next Pat White, and he doesn't have that this year. Casteel's defense might keep them in some games. Arizona fans are used to relative mediocrity thus he'll have more time to develop a team. Long term prediction -- he'll do okay but he will NOT tear up the PAC-12.
Ohh my goodness... to be young again. Anyway - contrary to the post above. I think you will eventually see (with the exception of USC) a "pack" at the top of the Pac 12 with WSU, AZ, Oregon, in that mix. RR had the nonsense here, but the guy can coach and rivals Leach in terms of creativeness with the O. Cliche' to say but as long as he has a DC that is good and aggressive then he will do well. An average DC in his last season here would have yielded several more wins. If Kiffin doesn't jump on USC in the future then they will be the favorite most years. RR with a good season or two will be able to pull in better talent.
RR's WVU teams were only really good (10+ wins) when they were playing against the watered-down Big East. When he still had to play something resembling a decent schedule (Miami, Va Tech still in the Big East) his teams were merely good-ish (usually 8 wins a year).
The Pac-12 has enough good teams in it that I don't foresee RR getting 10+ wins a year at Zona, but I think he will get them to be consistently "good-ish" (e.g. 7-9 wins a year) after a few years. Based on how generally "meh" Arizona has been, that should be more than enough to satisfy the locals, I would think.
U of A has never been to a rose bowl. That is the type of program he is going to. As for the picture I'm pretty sure they paid ASU girls to pose because Tucson is a hick town barely a cut above Lansing and while they may have 1 or 2 stars Tempe is always going to win the recruiting war on beautiful girls. As for the team, they are not with Rich Rodriguez yet. While on the surface Richrod has said the right things In front of the press, the two Seniors I've been able to talk to hate him. They feel he has come in and disrespected everything they built before. That everything they did was the wrong way and he is the only one who has figured out the right way to do a program. While I'm sure some will buy in, I'm afraid this transition will look much like ours and get worse before it gets better. Good new for Richrod is with a program who has never seen the other side of the hump he should get the time to improve but he is starting in a real deficit, that surprising enough he created again by not being humble and respecting the traditions before him.
Disrespected everything they did before? !!! WTF. Trust me, they weren't doing it "right" before and he is being tough for a reason. Any HC at that level is going to establish dominance, not deference and submissiveness towards the "old way" (with the exception of a few programs like Michigan where that is a big deal). RR is humble but driven. He's learned he doesn't have the time (as all coaches in this day) to transition. He won't have as big a hurdle to overcome but believe me, they win and are much more competitive then all the pansy hurt feelings now will go away. Might help to not to have RR haters putting words in the seniors mouths (allegedly) to stir stuff up.
Anonymous at 9:28 said "Tucson is a hick town barely a cut above Lansing."
Have you been to Lansing lately? In comparison Tucson (far from perfect, conceded) is paradise on just about every level.
A note on the "talent" in Arizona: It's in better shape, period. The raw materials don't differ appreciably (ignoring the south-of-the-border influence for a moment) from what you might see in Ann Arbor. Also, ASU and UA have way more cheesiness than UMich. I'll take UM's top end over their top end any day.
While AU might have done it all wrong before and may need to do it all different, you can change things without pissing people off. Show respect for what does work and improve those that don't. Sounds like RR didn't learn anything.
To all my fans out there after my post on Senior feedback. I'm telling you what I know and I'm saying in the clubhouse the seniors are not on board and are pissed off. Stoops is no run of the mill coach. He understands how to harden a team and get them to perform at their best as you'll see this year as he returns to OK to lead the defense. I get Carr had let the kids go soft but that was not the issue in AZ. The issue is Rich Rod doesn't understand how to build on what came before vs his arrogance that he is the way. Hoke is an example of what can happen when you go the other way. When you don't you have two years of heart burn while you get your Koolaid sipping recruits in. I'm not saying RR will fail and in fact I'm Likely to go to a couple games. What I'm saying is he didn't learn the lesson and for those who don't learn from history they are destined to repeat it. The good news this time is he'll get his 4th year to show te change.
FYI - I would have given him a 4th year here too. Sammy Watkins, Dee Hart and Denard on the same field. Forget about it!
I'm not ashamed to say I'm rooting for Rodriguez. He seems like a good guy who got a raw deal and I'd like to see him do well in AZ. Plus, I live in Pac12 country and need a team to root for. I'm looking forward to seeing how the offense does and how his program development compares beside Leach (same timeline), Kelly (similar ingenuity), and Kiffin (opposite everything). I'm hoping to make it to Eugene for the Arizona game this year.
As for how he'll do this year - I expect him to stink. There's been a steep learning curve and a ton of animosity about 'culture change' everywhere Rodriguez has gone. Seniors were pissed and quit even at WVU. That's how he does things, and he's had great success everywhere besides Michigan.
As for one of the many ANON quotes (I like to pretend it's one guy arguing with himself) - regarding 'talent' - does the cheesiness offset the lack of cheese (eaten)... discuss?
I'm one of the people who thinks Casteel would have made every difference. He might have faced a few bumps, but I'm thinking it the win total would have been more like 5-7-9 instead of 3-5-7 -- enough to get him coaching last year, where a favorable schedule could/would have put him in the neighborhood of 11 wins...but no one is changing anyone elses mind about RR at this point. RR will have to turn AZ into a national title contender before RR fans change their minds and he'll have to flame out totally before supporters like me change theirs.
How many Carr and Hoke recruits contributed to our 10-2 record last season? With all the crap fake blue fans, alums, ex players, coaches etc. threw at him he took it like a man and exited AA like a gentleman.
There's a definite bias potential in attributing X recruit to Y coach during transitions to suit various arguments, but it's almost impossible to not credit Morgan to Rodriguez, who unearthed what looks like a pretty good player out of 3-star obscurity.
For all the (justified) talk about Rodriguez horrendous defenses, the man (or someone on his staff) was definitely able to find some diamond-in-the-rough types like Morgan and Ryan. Other than taking too many hybrids and maybe some questionable character assesments, I think Rodriguez was a decent recruit, considering he was having to sell a program coming off a 3 win and then 5 win season. (which was mostly his own fault of course, but I'm just talking about his abilities as a recruiter.)
Well in RR's favor, coaches with Michigan backgrounds have done well at Arizona in the past as Jim Young went 31-13 and Larry Smith (who would go on to winthe 3 straightyards Pac10 championships as coacha at Usc) went 48-28-3. Though both of those guys were former Bo Assistants and were not former Michigan head coaches.
Their school may not have the scholarship of UM, not have the athletic tradition or a beautiful campus. However, after 34 years of living inA2, I can say that the female talent at AZ is way better.
ReplyDeleteI live in Tucson and attended the spring scrimmage. Based on almost no inside information my guess is we'll see UA go 4-8 or 5-7 this year. Rodriguez is always searching for the next Pat White, and he doesn't have that this year. Casteel's defense might keep them in some games. Arizona fans are used to relative mediocrity thus he'll have more time to develop a team. Long term prediction -- he'll do okay but he will NOT tear up the PAC-12.
ReplyDeleteOhh my goodness... to be young again. Anyway - contrary to the post above. I think you will eventually see (with the exception of USC) a "pack" at the top of the Pac 12 with WSU, AZ, Oregon, in that mix. RR had the nonsense here, but the guy can coach and rivals Leach in terms of creativeness with the O. Cliche' to say but as long as he has a DC that is good and aggressive then he will do well. An average DC in his last season here would have yielded several more wins. If Kiffin doesn't jump on USC in the future then they will be the favorite most years. RR with a good season or two will be able to pull in better talent.
ReplyDeleteRR's WVU teams were only really good (10+ wins) when they were playing against the watered-down Big East. When he still had to play something resembling a decent schedule (Miami, Va Tech still in the Big East) his teams were merely good-ish (usually 8 wins a year).
ReplyDeleteThe Pac-12 has enough good teams in it that I don't foresee RR getting 10+ wins a year at Zona, but I think he will get them to be consistently "good-ish" (e.g. 7-9 wins a year) after a few years. Based on how generally "meh" Arizona has been, that should be more than enough to satisfy the locals, I would think.
U of A has never been to a rose bowl. That is the type of program he is going to. As for the picture I'm pretty sure they paid ASU girls to pose because Tucson is a hick town barely a cut above Lansing and while they may have 1 or 2 stars Tempe is always going to win the recruiting war on beautiful girls.
ReplyDeleteAs for the team, they are not with Rich Rodriguez yet. While on the surface Richrod has said the right things In front of the press, the two Seniors I've been able to talk to hate him. They feel he has come in and disrespected everything they built before. That everything they did was the wrong way and he is the only one who has figured out the right way to do a program. While I'm sure some will buy in, I'm afraid this transition will look much like ours and get worse before it gets better. Good new for Richrod is with a program who has never seen the other side of the hump he should get the time to improve but he is starting in a real deficit, that surprising enough he created again by not being humble and respecting the traditions before him.
Disrespected everything they did before? !!! WTF. Trust me, they weren't doing it "right" before and he is being tough for a reason. Any HC at that level is going to establish dominance, not deference and submissiveness towards the "old way" (with the exception of a few programs like Michigan where that is a big deal). RR is humble but driven. He's learned he doesn't have the time (as all coaches in this day) to transition. He won't have as big a hurdle to overcome but believe me, they win and are much more competitive then all the pansy hurt feelings now will go away. Might help to not to have RR haters putting words in the seniors mouths (allegedly) to stir stuff up.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 9:28 said "Tucson is a hick town barely a cut above Lansing."
ReplyDeleteHave you been to Lansing lately? In comparison Tucson (far from perfect, conceded) is paradise on just about every level.
A note on the "talent" in Arizona: It's in better shape, period. The raw materials don't differ appreciably (ignoring the south-of-the-border influence for a moment) from what you might see in Ann Arbor. Also, ASU and UA have way more cheesiness than UMich. I'll take UM's top end over their top end any day.
While AU might have done it all wrong before and may need to do it all different, you can change things without pissing people off. Show respect for what does work and improve those that don't. Sounds like RR didn't learn anything.
ReplyDeleteTo all my fans out there after my post on Senior feedback. I'm telling you what I know and I'm saying in the clubhouse the seniors are not on board and are pissed off. Stoops is no run of the mill coach. He understands how to harden a team and get them to perform at their best as you'll see this year as he returns to OK to lead the defense. I get Carr had let the kids go soft but that was not the issue in AZ. The issue is Rich Rod doesn't understand how to build on what came before vs his arrogance that he is the way. Hoke is an example of what can happen when you go the other way. When you don't you have two years of heart burn while you get your Koolaid sipping recruits in. I'm not saying RR will fail and in fact I'm Likely to go to a couple games. What I'm saying is he didn't learn the lesson and for those who don't learn from history they are destined to repeat it. The good news this time is he'll get his 4th year to show te change.
ReplyDeleteFYI - I would have given him a 4th year here too. Sammy Watkins, Dee Hart and Denard on the same field. Forget about it!
I'm not ashamed to say I'm rooting for Rodriguez. He seems like a good guy who got a raw deal and I'd like to see him do well in AZ. Plus, I live in Pac12 country and need a team to root for. I'm looking forward to seeing how the offense does and how his program development compares beside Leach (same timeline), Kelly (similar ingenuity), and Kiffin (opposite everything). I'm hoping to make it to Eugene for the Arizona game this year.
ReplyDeleteAs for how he'll do this year - I expect him to stink. There's been a steep learning curve and a ton of animosity about 'culture change' everywhere Rodriguez has gone. Seniors were pissed and quit even at WVU. That's how he does things, and he's had great success everywhere besides Michigan.
As for one of the many ANON quotes (I like to pretend it's one guy arguing with himself) - regarding 'talent' - does the cheesiness offset the lack of cheese (eaten)... discuss?
I'm one of the people who thinks Casteel would have made every difference. He might have faced a few bumps, but I'm thinking it the win total would have been more like 5-7-9 instead of 3-5-7 -- enough to get him coaching last year, where a favorable schedule could/would have put him in the neighborhood of 11 wins...but no one is changing anyone elses mind about RR at this point. RR will have to turn AZ into a national title contender before RR fans change their minds and he'll have to flame out totally before supporters like me change theirs.
ReplyDeleteHow many Carr and Hoke recruits contributed to our 10-2 record last season? With all the crap fake blue fans, alums, ex players, coaches etc. threw at him he took it like a man and exited AA like a gentleman.
ReplyDeleteMolk, Martin, Huyge, Hemingway, Koger, Van Bergen, Demens, Woolfolk...
DeleteAnd Morgan was a Hoke recruit.
DeleteDesmond Morgan committed to Michigan on December 10, 2010, about a month before Hoke was hired. I count him as a Rodriguez recruit.
DeleteThere's a definite bias potential in attributing X recruit to Y coach during transitions to suit various arguments, but it's almost impossible to not credit Morgan to Rodriguez, who unearthed what looks like a pretty good player out of 3-star obscurity.
DeleteFor all the (justified) talk about Rodriguez horrendous defenses, the man (or someone on his staff) was definitely able to find some diamond-in-the-rough types like Morgan and Ryan. Other than taking too many hybrids and maybe some questionable character assesments, I think Rodriguez was a decent recruit, considering he was having to sell a program coming off a 3 win and then 5 win season. (which was mostly his own fault of course, but I'm just talking about his abilities as a recruiter.)
Well in RR's favor, coaches with Michigan backgrounds have done well at Arizona in the past as Jim Young went 31-13 and Larry Smith (who would go on to winthe 3 straightyards Pac10 championships as coacha at Usc) went 48-28-3. Though both of those guys were former Bo Assistants and were not former Michigan head coaches.
ReplyDelete