So, I know that coaches have told Shallman he is going to get a shot at FB or RB in college, but he is getting to be a very big boy for that. He is already two or more inches bigger than former NFL back Mike Alstott and already 20 pounds heavier than former NFLer John Riggins. Most FBs are 5'10"-6'1"; much over that is not good for FBs, right? His frame is going to add a lot in S&C. What are your odds he becomes Ryan Van Bergen II? Would people feel better about this recruiting class if we looked at Wyatt as a DL and not as a FB? I kinda think he would be wasted as a situational offensive player.Well, I sort of answered this question in my scouting report of Wyatt Shallman from this past winter, but I didn't talk about this aspect in great depth.
First of all, I wouldn't really worry about how Shallman compares to John Riggins. Riggins played from 1971 to 1985, so he was retired for a decade before Shallman was even born. Players are bigger and faster than they were then. There are guys like Michael Turner (5'10", 247 lbs.), Steven Jackson (6'2", 240 lbs.), and Brandon Jacobs (6'4", 264 lbs.) running amok in the NFL these days, and each of those guys is heavier and/or taller than Riggins.
I am not the world's biggest fan Shallman's abilities. He doesn't have the suddenness of an elite running back, he doesn't have great speed, and he doesn't break enough tackles to satisfy me. What he does offer is a differing set of skills from any other running back on the roster or in the 2013 recruiting class. With the offensive line Michigan is building, the Wolverines should be plowing over people in a couple years the way Wisconsin has been for the past several seasons. Shallman is a poor man's Ron Dayne, P.J. Hill, Montee Ball, etc. This past Saturday night, I watched Oregon tight end Colt Lyerla (6'5", 246 lbs.) line up in the backfield and carry the ball 7 times for 63 yards against Arizona. Players of lots of different shapes and sizes can run the ball in college.
As for Shallman's size, there have been suggestions that he's not quite 6'3" or 6'4" and that he's not 255 lbs. He doesn't look 255 to me; I might buy 235. Recruiting weights are often overreported, whether it's innocent exaggeration or someone trying to beef up his own measurements to garner more attention. Several guys in Michigan's 2012 recruiting class showed up to campus weighing less than was reported on Rivals or Scout.
The coaching staff seems to have been pretty honest with recruits about their future positions. They would rather have guys playing positions they want to play than to have to shoehorn guys into positions they dislike. Guys will play harder for you that way. The coaches have promised Shallman a shot at running back, and I think that's where he'll stay. There's always a chance that somebody will change positions, but it doesn't seem to be Brady Hoke's M.O. to bring guys in and then turn their world upside down. Guys like Jordan Paskorz and Ricardo Miller have changed positions, but Hoke didn't recruit them. Gardner is making a temporary (or permanent) switch to wide receiver, but again, Hoke never recruited him.
Van Bergen was an athletic guy coming out of high school, but he was clearly headed for the defensive line and never had any delusions otherwise. He had the frame to add significant weight, and he ended up at almost 290 lbs. Even if Shallman adds mass, he will likely still be 6'3". That's relatively short for a strongside end and he could struggle to get his hands on offensive linemen before they get into him. Meanwhile, unless he makes a concerted effort to beef up, he looks like a guy who could play his college career at 250-ish pounds.
On top of all that, I was not impressed with Shallman's high school highlights. Word is that he was suffering from some nagging injuries last season, but I don't see a high level of effort and determination on the defensive side of the ball. Some guys are equally adept at playing football on both sides; other guys have "it" on one side or the other. Shallman's "it" factor seems higher on offense than defense; he's a fine high school defender, but comparing their high school film, I would take Ryan Van Bergen on defense over Wyatt Shallman.
What are the chances Shallman plays defensive end in his college career? Eh, I'll go with 15%, just because injuries and attrition and random things happen. But what are the chances Shallman becomes the next Ryan Van Bergen (a borderline NFL draft pick at defensive end)? I'd say that's closer to 5%.
Could he end up at SAM or WDE instead?
ReplyDeleteHe also seems kind of tall for an RB, in addition to being on the low side of the agility/speed scale and on the high end of the weight scale. I have seen him comopared to Toby Gearhart, but Toby was shorter IIRC. I do like the idea of having utility players, but in between Houma and Hill, it sounds like we already have a couple of those in these classes.
Who's Hill?
DeleteI don't think SAM is a possibility. WDE is more likely than SDE, I think.
Khalid Hill. He has been touted as an H-Back/TE type.
DeleteOh, okay. I thought maybe you meant Smith. I was thinking of fullback/jumbo tailback types, and Khalid Hill didn't really enter my mind. Hill is a U-back type all the way, so I don't really see him fitting into the backfield picture.
DeleteWith all the 2 TE sets that Borges likes, don't we still need TE depth? Give the kid a shot at RB (just like Hopkins, etc. got one). If he gets beat out, he can be combination of (1) a package running back, (2) a fullback, (3) a TE. Based on his height, he may have a tweener FB/TE frame that at least gives Borges some options and is a less of a formation key based solely on personnel.
ReplyDeleteHe could be a slightly slower version of K. Hill who likely does have the speed or hands.
DeleteThat's what I think. There are pure TEs (Funchess when he bulks up and learns to block and Butt), a blocking TE (Williams), an H-back pass-catcher (Hill), a blocking FB (Kerridge) and a FB that can also run/catch (Houma). Shallman should fit somewhere in there depending on what his relative running, catching, blocking abilities end up being in a couple years.
DeleteI know this is not the subject posted, but I wanted to ask how do you feel Taylor and Avery are doing after four games? We're going into the B1G ten season and do you feel they will stand up to the pressure? Thanks.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to try to spend some time this weekend reviewing the first few games of film, with respect to defense. I think Avery struggled against Alabama (who didn't?), but otherwise, I think he's been okay. I'm not a fan of Taylor as a starter, but options are limited at this point. I should have a better idea in another day or two, though.
DeleteWhat's the difference between the H and U back?
ReplyDeleteThe U-back is the specific name used by this coaching staff; the H-back is the more generic term for the same position.
DeleteGood post, with an interesting take.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that the coaches are up front and honest with people in general. If they say a guy will get a shot at a position, we should believe them...but that doesn't mean that's where they'll ultimately end up. I think that goes for most coaching staffs. They'll give you an honest shot at a position (if you really want it), even if they think you'll ultimately end up elsewhere. I don't think there is anything dishonest in that.
The insinuation that Hoke doesn't move people around (or even does it less than most coaches) is highly debatable. You seem to be saying the guys he moved around don't count because he didn't recruit them, which is a logical leap that inherently makes your hypothesis correct...except it ignores that Beyer has moved from LB to DE, which is exactly what everyone thought would happen when he was recruited. (not that the SLB and WDE positions are that different, but he clearly was moved and was recruited by Hoke even though he originally committed to Rodriguez). Besides that, it's going to be hard to find a counter-example when these kids are almost all either Freshman or RS Freshman. It usually takes a little time. We'll know better in a few years, but right now we can't say much about it.
Going back to Shallman - I agree with you that he might be a bit of an odd fit at DE. His body says WDE but it's not clear if he has the requisite athleticism. But, even at 6'4 or 6'3, he could be a SDE. Brandon Graham was 6'1 after all. If Shallman bulks up he could get there but the chances are probably slim (like you said.) Van Bergen isn't a good comparison.
I do agree that he is probably likely to stick to offense. I think he could be used as a pure 'power' back, situationally, but that seems like a fairly limited role, especially with some of the other backs (e.g. Rawls, Smith) seemingly capable of a similar role. It's hard to know what to expect when Borges hasn't yet installed 'his offense' yet, though it is clear he absolutely LOVES TEs/H-backs/FBs. Borges wants kids that can block.
My best guess for Shallman is that he'll get some carries but mostly be a blocking H-back type (classified either as a FB or a TE/U-back). He's obviously a different player than Hill (who seems to be an excellent pass-catcher and probably a little undersized) but he could play the same position and be used more situationally. He also seems like a low-downside type of player in that his size/athleticism should make him a quality special teamer at worst. The coaching staff may not even know what they want to do with him yet - they just like his physical ability and potential.
Borges wants every position to be able to block, but he also wants them to be a threat to score (see the pass to Joey Kerridge). I think the 'swiss army knife' analogy is a good one. Houma, Hopkins, Hill, Funchess, and Williams are all guys with very different abilities, but I see them being similar in that they're not WR or RB. I think on most plays Borges wants at least 2 guys from this 'non WR/RB' group to be on the field, many times 3 of them. Sometimes they're going to fit a traditional FB or TE mold but often times one of them might be a 'hybrid'. That's where I'm guessing Shallman fits in.
I didn't insinuate that Hoke doesn't move people around. I insinuated that he hasn't shown a propensity to moving people against their will. Beyer was recruited as a defensive end, and the coaches have put him there. He had an opportunity to get on the field last year at SAM, so he/they took advantage of it. But now he's at WDE, just like he was promised. Of course coaches are going to move guys around when needed, but like you said, Hoke seems inclined to give guys a shot at the position for which they were recruited.
DeleteMaybe I'm wrong, but I think Cam Gordon was "given a shot" not because the coaches thought he could succeed at WR, but because Rodriguez and Co. just wanted to get him to Michigan. He was always bound to play defense, but they just didn't want to say it up front.
I'd compare Shallman to Brad Muster, who played for the Bears. I think he'll pretty much play the same role.
ReplyDeleteGood write up. I agree all the way and he does not look like he is 255 lbs. Shallman's film and stats as a HS RB are not particularly impressive. The big backs you mention in the NFL still tend to have pinball stats and highlights in high school, even though they are not speed demons. Shallman strikes me as a good high school player that the coaches are taking based primarily on physical potential, i.e., measurables. Normally, I am not a huge fan of "athlete" recruits who do not demonstrate a clear position where they excel or project. But Hoke has recruited relatively few of them so far so he gets leeway. My guess is that Shallman competes with Houma at FB and if he can block and catch, Borges will find ways to mix him in. That he is not a Michigan-caliber TB is as clear as day to me.
ReplyDelete