Wednesday, October 30, 2013

Class of 2013 Redshirts

Derrick Green (#27) carries the ball against Central Michigan
Here's an updated list of the freshmen who have played thus far in 2013 and the freshmen who are on pace to redshirt. Offensive guard Kyle Bosch, who is expected to start at left guard against Michigan State, is the most recent addition to the first list.

OG Kyle Bosch
TE Jake Butt
DE Taco Charlton
LB Ben Gedeon
RB Derrick Green
S Delano Hill
WR Da'Mario Jones
CB Jourdan Lewis
QB Shane Morris
RB De'Veon Smith
CB Channing Stribling
S Dymonte Thomas
WR Csont'e York

OG David Dawson
FS Reon Dawson
CB Ross Douglas
WR Jaron Dukes
OT Chris Fox
TE Khalid Hill
DT Maurice Hurst, Jr.
C Patrick Kugler
LB Mike McCray
DT Henry Poggi
OG Dan Samuelson
FB Wyatt Shallman
LS Scott Sypniewski
OT Logan Tuley-Tillman


  1. Any surprises in either category? Any burned redshirts you consider wasted?

    Also, what is the probability (however low) that, in some cases, the coaches have evaluated a first year player and decided "It's unlikely we have a 5-year guy here. We may as well use him on special teams?"

    1. The list looks pretty reasonable to me and is about what I expected before the season (half or a little more than half redshirting). Most of the freshman who have played could compete for starting positions next year (CB, S, RB). Snaps for the guys who have burned redshirts have been limited thanks to a lack of blowout wins. We will probably see the % of redshirts going up because retention of Hoke's classes has been strong. But they will need to continue to play a healthy amount of freshman to keep recruits interested.

    2. I don't think there are many surprises as far as numbers go. I expected one receiver to play (my guess was Da'Mario Jones), but both Jones and York have played. I thought the coaches would redshirt De'Veon Smith or Derrick Green (more likely Smith), but both have played. Otherwise, it's about what I expected. I still believe that York and Smith should have redshirted, because they haven't contributed significantly enough to warrant losing a year of eligibility. But I've come to expect those types of things.

      I don't think the coaches are using guys on special teams that they don't think can last five years. Remember, the coaches can - and have - cut guys loose after four years previously (Rocko Khoury, Mike Jones, etc.), even when there was an option for a fifth year.

      I'm a little surprised Shallman hasn't played. He's one of the bigger freshmen - at least I thought they'd play him on special teams.

      A little surprised we've had 4 true freshmen DB's on the field. Again, I was a little surprised we recruited 6 DBs in this one class, but what's done is done.
      Didn't think Gedeon would see the field more than special teams.
      Didn't think Bosch would see the field at all.

      Deveon Smith I am still very excited for. I'd be happy seeing him get a few more carries.

    4. Word is Shallman "may have" but he had a leg injury prior to the end of camp but watching warmups seems back 100% since maybe Akron if I remember. Mr. Webb alluded to him learning H-back which would be a good reason to RS since we don't have a true U/H right now (assumption is Butt is a TE playing U). I know one of the soph O linemen's parents and they made a commment at the Indiana game that Shallman is still runninng RB and FB in practices too so maybe Webb is right.

      D. Smith is the one I wish could have gotten a RS but I know most of the plans went out the window with some of these guys with the unfortunately close games with Ak and CT.

  2. Charlton and Hill are two I wish would have red-shirted on that list. Most of the others have contributed and/or don't have the high-end upside to warrant 5 scholarship-years. Smith didn't need to play either, but RBs aren't going to benefit as much from red-shirting.

    1. Running backs don't benefit as much from redshirting, except if it gives them an extra year to "show their stuff" or win the job. He might not be a better player in 2017 than 2016, but Derrick Green, Damien Harris, etc. might be out the door and open up a spot for him. There just doesn't seem to be much of a point to using him this year, so if you think he's talented enough to give a scholarship to, then having him available when he's 22 or 23 years old would seem like a boon.

    2. Yeah, it's nice to have the option. I'd rather Smith was red-shirted than not, but I doubt the coaches will be kicking themselves about it 3 years from now.

      I see it as another scholarship year available for a better recruit (like Harris or Weber or some of the other high-end recruits we're currently not pursuing due to a scholarship crunch.)

    3. Smith is a serious potential starter next year (it's him or Green), so it's tough to fault the coaches for choosing to get him snaps. Again, I think he would have played a lot more had UM not been in so many tight games.

    4. Meh - I do agree he could/should have played more in blowouts. However, how much does the experience, especially in blowouts, move the needle for 2014? If you're talking QB, Safety, LB - getting live snaps is invaluable. If you're talking RB - not sure it matters at all.

      For a guy like Fitz Toussaint, that extra year is paying big dividends for Michigan right now.

      I think the biggest thing with Green/Smith is you didn't need to 'season' them both. Especially considering no RB looks to be part of the next recruiting class, and Johnson red-shirted, it would be nice to spread out the scholarships. When that doesn't happen it leads to inefficient "position lumping" in recruiting down the road.

      Regardless, I hope Michigan goes after Weber pretty hard. I'd hate to miss out on a kid with that talent. Red-shirt him or Harris and go from there...

    5. You never know what is going to happen over the course of a season. Most teams plays three running backs if they have them - and if your top three includes two freshman, so be it. I am frankly shocked that Fitz has made it this far into the season without injuring himself again, considering his history. UM has long history of allowing talented freshman RB's compete with capable upper-classmen. The bigger crime would be playing a stiff like Rawls ahead of more talented young kids (a la Joe Paterno). To be honest, I am not thrilled with the lack of rotation at RB, even in competitive games.

    6. Getting game experience for running backs is valuable too. Blocking assignments, patience, etc.

  3. I kinda wish some of the players listed would've been redshirted -- Michigan State seems to redshirt just about everyone in order to get the most mileage out of them -- but I understand that we have to play first and second-year players due to depth. Hopely by 2015 we should be able to redshirt a lot more and have quality depth everywhere a la Bama.

    1. It's interesting ... I think Urban Meyer is on record (after he'd assumed the HC role at OSU) as saying that in the SEC the idea of redshirting good players is simply not done. If they can contribute at true freshman, then play them is the philosophy, I guess.

      All that's predicated on the idea that the pipeline of quality players is always full ... that when a quality player rolls out after 4 years there's another just-as-good player to step in. So far it seems Hoke's recruiting would suggest something akin to this. I think Meyer at OSU is operating from a similar point of view.

    2. I get what you are saying but look at Bama. I think freshmen being able to outplay upperclassmen is a bad sign regardless of the player. I understand Michigan and even OSU will have to play freshmen, but the goal should be being able to redshirt guys to get them ready for the speed and intensity of the game. I am not too worried as we are headed in that direction given how well our staff has been recruiting. I just hope to finish strong with D Hand and a few top-rated recruits.

    3. Sure ... provided the current crop of upperclassman have what it takes to field a competitive team.

      Even Alabama brings some true freshmen in ... wasn't T. J. Yeldon a true Freshman last year? And if memory serves, didn't he start the opener against Michigan last year?

      Bottom line ... I agree with you in principle. Perhaps this year is just one of those years where the coaches were left with few choices.

  4. "Remember, the coaches can - and have - cut guys loose after four years previously (Rocko Khoury, Mike Jones, etc.)" I thought Khoury and JOnes decided on their own to leave the football team, esecially after Khoury started in place of injured David Molk. If the coaches are responsible for cutting Khoury, they did a really shitty thing, because he helped lead the team to a BCS win.

    1. I thought Khoury and Jones left on their own will -- I might have been misinformed but that's what I remember hearing.

  5. I really hope Kugler comes in as advertised. Kalis has been a tough reminder that it's ridiculous to expect a 19 year old kid to come right in and dominate.