I'm a life long Michigan fan. I think other Michigan fans are going to be sorry when they fire Hoke and have to sit through 4-5 more years of rebuilding. When that happens they should blame themselves. If the university wants to fire him for not winning football games, then fine. Just do it. But don't use a " possible concussion" that he didn't know about as an excuse to do it. He is not a Dr. Nor am I but I didn't think that he looked concussed either. Just thought he had an ankle injury. Brady holes love of Michigan and his character shouldn't be questioned. Period. I truly hope that we as Michigan fans do not ruin our football program
I agree with everything you said except I dont think next year will be a rebuilding year if Hoke is fired. The pieces are there to win championships.
But questioning Hoke's character or love of Michigan is absurd. He isn't winning, be pissed off at that. The concussion issue is just the fan base and media trying to remove him before the end of the year, nothing more.
What about his lack of truthfulness? Hoke said on Monday that Shane did not have a concussion. But the University knew on Sunday that he did. There is only two options:
1) Hoke lied on Monday.
or
2) No one told Hoke, and he didn't bother to check on the status of his player.
If he lied then he should be fired. If no one told Hoke and he didn't bother to ask he should be fired.
I don't mind that he accidentally put Shane back out there. What bothers me is Hoke's actions after the game. If Hoke comes out on Sunday and says "we made a mistake" no problem. But the fact that he either lied or he did not care enough to check on the health of his player that does bother me.
Well said. I am glad someone has a voice of reason and not let emotion take over. To many people are just piling on Hoke and Brandon.
I hope they give Brady until the end of the season and then examine the whole body of work. I wish people realized 78 of the 105 players are Sophomores or Freshman. Hoke gives us the best chance to win now and next season. Without him, Mattison leaves, recruits leave and we have to wait another 3-4 years and hope its better.
Let this play out for the year and then make a rational decision.
Hoke lack of attention to detail & laid-back coaching style is what has been his downfall. He recruits like a boss, but his personality and coaching style has permeated throughout the entire team. Our top recruting classes haven't developed, we are a joke offensively, and our defense breaks once it's evident that they aren't going to get any help from the O. It's just not happening. He now has three of his classes in place, and I can barely name one junior who's been an impact player. Kyle Kalis anyone?
This is how I feel as well. At this point Michigan shouldn't be expected to be giant-killers ... but there should be more evidence of the trend line showing improvement.
Interestingly, I was e-mailing a Florida fan buddy and that's his complaint against Muschamp as well. The recruiting classes are there, but the player development is not happening.
I had been in the "young team" camp until Notre Dame when it became clear that same problems which plagued the offense last year, and even in 2012, continued to plague the offense. I took some time to see how the 2011 OL performed and it was amazing, against OSU the OL was giving DR seven and eight Mississippis to throw the ball. As for the defense, it has been too easy to blame the D woes on the lack of offense, but it really wasn't very good last year and the exposure by Minnesota this year cannot be ignored.
First of all, thank you Magnus for running a Michigan blog that doesn't resemble that shit show going on over a mgoblog! Now, with regards to Mr. Hoke. I agree with some of the people here, that we will be regretting firing Brady if that happens after the season. He has bringing in the right players, high character kids that are putting their bodies on the line for the University and the fans. Re-building a team takes time, the one thing that i have learned most Michigan fans don't have. Everybody wants to jump ship and throw the coach under the bus because the team is struggling. But honestly, what about this team really surprises anybody? Going into the year, we knew the O-Line would struggle, we knew we lost one of our best receivers in recent memory, we knew the team was super young, we knew Gardner would be learning his third scheme in as many years playing QB, and we knew we had just hired a new Offensive coordinator. So, what exactly has come as a surprise to anybody? Development? How about this, especially with the O-linemen. Most of our starters are underclassmen, underclassmen who haven't had the luxury to sit and learn a system, nor have had the luxury to play beside an upperclassmen who could help them along the way; aside from mags, who seems to be showing promise after playing next to Lewan. Where does that leave us, with a group of young linemen with no real leader and nobody to show them the way. Given the situation i don't think its reasonable to suggest players on the O-line aren't being developed. And i'm not sure what else development has been lacking, the running backs seem to be better than last year, the receivers maybe took a step back, but again youth. Our TE's and constantly hurt, so idk how you blame that on Hoke. As for the D, well if you think they haven't been developing then you should probably try watching closer, because our d isnt the problem! And surprise surprise, our very own Brady hoke D-Line specialist has coached up a respectable group of players. Just to rattle off a few impact juniors, how about Funchess, Mags, Wilson, Norfleet, and Henry. Not to mention a handful of other players who will no doubt make an impact but aren't playing yet because we have depth. Bottom line is, Michigan fans have become a bunch of whiny sissies that would rather destroy their own name then deal with growing pains. The self entitlement among this fan base is sickening, all the negativity, the witch hunts, blowing every little thing out of perspective (headsets, talking to the media, honestly who gives a shit) and even to the point of boycotting games or wearing red to them. All we have shown is that we are as obnoxious in failure, as MSU has been in success. Is Brady Hoke the answer for Michigan football, I have no idea. But I would like to see a coach get a fair ride in AA to really show what their abilities are without being chased out of town by the media, driven by our "wonderful" fans. I doubt this will ever happen again, and ill be surprised if any coach takes this job anymore. Either way, I fully intend to support the team, along with Brady Hoke; as much as it will pain people here to hear this, Brady Hoke is as much a part of the team as any player, and I wish for continued success of both! Apologies for the lengthy rant, I've been reading this garbage for a week now and had to let this out. Oh and also, who wants to start a protest against so called "fans" that insist on further dragging the program through the mud?
> thank you Magnus for running a Michigan blog that doesn't resemble that shit show going on over a mgoblog
Magnus:
Consider that many people do not enjoy reading the stuff that the writer refers to and which also is at other leading blogs. There is demand for an alternative and you happen to be in a good place at the right time: You have some audience and reputation already, you have professional experience and knowledge about football (unlike almost all other bloggers), and you are an engaging, clear thinker and writer. No other bloggers combine all that. In the current firestorm your analysis and writing especially stand out. Opportunity may be knocking if you are interested.
I hope you are, for my selfish reasons, but of course you may have other plans and priorities such as your team. Go Blue and thanks for your efforts regardless.
LTA
P.S. There are other good people in the UM blogosphere, but they are spread out all over. Maybe combine with other smart writers with real knowledge.
I agree with most of what was said above. I very much hope Hoke succeeds on the field, and I'd happily give him another year to do it no matter what our record is this year. As far as every other aspect of his job, including the most important one IMHO -- taking care of and helping the student-athletes -- my impression is that he's one-in-a-million, and I think we're unlikely to find another.
Michael Rosenberg recently wrote in Sports Illustrated -- which Dave Brandon also said when he introduced Hoke, and everyone else I've read or heard from who knows Hoke has said -- that he's never heard anyone have anything bad to say about Hoke; that Hoke is a genuine, good person, that his integrity is beyond question. And Hoke's love for Michigan is also beyond question.
In a way, this is Hoke's and Michigan's moment: Do we let the angry mob dictate decisions or do we -keep our cool? Can we succeed under this pressure? Like a great QB in the 4th quarter of the big game, it's Hoke's time to show how good he is.
I am so glad to read the above comments by people with some sense. I agree that we shouldn't be an angry mob and go after whoever we can because we are losing games. When other teams have 5th year seniors and we have juniors and red shirt sophomores, we can expect a few losses. I'm for being patient with a guy whose lifelong dream was to be the coach at Michigan. And all I've ever heard from his character was that people couldn't find anything bad to say about the guy. When asked about coach hoke, his DC and players got teary eyed defending him. That says a lot.
Do you think Michigan made a mistake in firing Borges? That is the great irony of this. Al would have had Gardner playing better this season especially knowing the playbook and not having to learn a new system. Now, Im not saying that Al is a better OC than Nussmeier, however for this current group of personel, he might be.
For one thing, they are the same people trying to ruin Hoke's and Brandon's careers (especially Cook at MGoBlog); when will we see the pattern of outrage after outrage and learn what these people are really about?
For another, we have pretty clear evidence that last year's offensive problem wasn't the offensive coordinator, because this year yet another highly qualified OC is having similar problems and getting similar results. It's too much coincidence to believe. In fact, Borges' performance was comparatively impressive because he mostly had the same players, but a year younger (with the notable exceptions of Gallon, Lewan, and Schofield).
Hoke is in his 4th year and has managed to serve up this crap-sandwich. He is a failure in every sense of the word but a good guy, yeah that's important, more important than winning....I think not.
To anon at 1057. What kind of person says that winning is more important than being a good person? What!? That's urban Meyer stuff. That's what the world has gone to. You are what's wrong with the world! If Hoke is a good Man, and he is teaching the players to be good young men instead of thugs who can't survive without football then I am all for him. We all should be. Get some morals.
To anon at 512 , nowhere in the above post does the guy say that he wants an unethical coach. Hoke has done a terrible job since his first season. He is hired to win games and graduate students. He is failing at one of those criteria. My honest question for you is: what part of Hoke's performance gives you confidence that he is the best man for the job?
Well, it's settled then.
ReplyDeleteI'm a life long Michigan fan. I think other Michigan fans are going to be sorry when they fire Hoke and have to sit through 4-5 more years of rebuilding. When that happens they should blame themselves. If the university wants to fire him for not winning football games, then fine. Just do it. But don't use a " possible concussion" that he didn't know about as an excuse to do it. He is not a Dr. Nor am I but I didn't think that he looked concussed either. Just thought he had an ankle injury. Brady holes love of Michigan and his character shouldn't be questioned. Period. I truly hope that we as Michigan fans do not ruin our football program
ReplyDeleteI agree with everything you said except I dont think next year will be a rebuilding year if Hoke is fired. The pieces are there to win championships.
DeleteBut questioning Hoke's character or love of Michigan is absurd. He isn't winning, be pissed off at that. The concussion issue is just the fan base and media trying to remove him before the end of the year, nothing more.
What about his lack of truthfulness? Hoke said on Monday that Shane did not have a concussion. But the University knew on Sunday that he did. There is only two options:
Delete1) Hoke lied on Monday.
or
2) No one told Hoke, and he didn't bother to check on the status of his player.
If he lied then he should be fired. If no one told Hoke and he didn't bother to ask he should be fired.
I don't mind that he accidentally put Shane back out there. What bothers me is Hoke's actions after the game. If Hoke comes out on Sunday and says "we made a mistake" no problem. But the fact that he either lied or he did not care enough to check on the health of his player that does bother me.
Well said. I am glad someone has a voice of reason and not let emotion take over. To many people are just piling on Hoke and Brandon.
DeleteI hope they give Brady until the end of the season and then examine the whole body of work. I wish people realized 78 of the 105 players are Sophomores or Freshman. Hoke gives us the best chance to win now and next season. Without him, Mattison leaves, recruits leave and we have to wait another 3-4 years and hope its better.
Let this play out for the year and then make a rational decision.
"Let this play out for the year and then make a rational decision."
DeleteAgree ... but *please* let's see some improvement we can hang our hat on.
104 yards total offense through 3 quarters against Minnesota just ain't right.
Hoke lack of attention to detail & laid-back coaching style is what has been his downfall. He recruits like a boss, but his personality and coaching style has permeated throughout the entire team. Our top recruting classes haven't developed, we are a joke offensively, and our defense breaks once it's evident that they aren't going to get any help from the O. It's just not happening. He now has three of his classes in place, and I can barely name one junior who's been an impact player. Kyle Kalis anyone?
ReplyDeleteThis is how I feel as well. At this point Michigan shouldn't be expected to be giant-killers ... but there should be more evidence of the trend line showing improvement.
DeleteInterestingly, I was e-mailing a Florida fan buddy and that's his complaint against Muschamp as well. The recruiting classes are there, but the player development is not happening.
I had been in the "young team" camp until Notre Dame when it became clear that same problems which plagued the offense last year, and even in 2012, continued to plague the offense. I took some time to see how the 2011 OL performed and it was amazing, against OSU the OL was giving DR seven and eight Mississippis to throw the ball.
DeleteAs for the defense, it has been too easy to blame the D woes on the lack of offense, but it really wasn't very good last year and the exposure by Minnesota this year cannot be ignored.
First of all, thank you Magnus for running a Michigan blog that doesn't resemble that shit show going on over a mgoblog! Now, with regards to Mr. Hoke. I agree with some of the people here, that we will be regretting firing Brady if that happens after the season. He has bringing in the right players, high character kids that are putting their bodies on the line for the University and the fans. Re-building a team takes time, the one thing that i have learned most Michigan fans don't have. Everybody wants to jump ship and throw the coach under the bus because the team is struggling. But honestly, what about this team really surprises anybody? Going into the year, we knew the O-Line would struggle, we knew we lost one of our best receivers in recent memory, we knew the team was super young, we knew Gardner would be learning his third scheme in as many years playing QB, and we knew we had just hired a new Offensive coordinator. So, what exactly has come as a surprise to anybody? Development? How about this, especially with the O-linemen. Most of our starters are underclassmen, underclassmen who haven't had the luxury to sit and learn a system, nor have had the luxury to play beside an upperclassmen who could help them along the way; aside from mags, who seems to be showing promise after playing next to Lewan. Where does that leave us, with a group of young linemen with no real leader and nobody to show them the way. Given the situation i don't think its reasonable to suggest players on the O-line aren't being developed. And i'm not sure what else development has been lacking, the running backs seem to be better than last year, the receivers maybe took a step back, but again youth. Our TE's and constantly hurt, so idk how you blame that on Hoke. As for the D, well if you think they haven't been developing then you should probably try watching closer, because our d isnt the problem! And surprise surprise, our very own Brady hoke D-Line specialist has coached up a respectable group of players. Just to rattle off a few impact juniors, how about Funchess, Mags, Wilson, Norfleet, and Henry. Not to mention a handful of other players who will no doubt make an impact but aren't playing yet because we have depth. Bottom line is, Michigan fans have become a bunch of whiny sissies that would rather destroy their own name then deal with growing pains. The self entitlement among this fan base is sickening, all the negativity, the witch hunts, blowing every little thing out of perspective (headsets, talking to the media, honestly who gives a shit) and even to the point of boycotting games or wearing red to them. All we have shown is that we are as obnoxious in failure, as MSU has been in success. Is Brady Hoke the answer for Michigan football, I have no idea. But I would like to see a coach get a fair ride in AA to really show what their abilities are without being chased out of town by the media, driven by our "wonderful" fans. I doubt this will ever happen again, and ill be surprised if any coach takes this job anymore. Either way, I fully intend to support the team, along with Brady Hoke; as much as it will pain people here to hear this, Brady Hoke is as much a part of the team as any player, and I wish for continued success of both! Apologies for the lengthy rant, I've been reading this garbage for a week now and had to let this out. Oh and also, who wants to start a protest against so called "fans" that insist on further dragging the program through the mud?
ReplyDelete> thank you Magnus for running a Michigan blog that doesn't resemble that shit show going on over a mgoblog
DeleteMagnus:
Consider that many people do not enjoy reading the stuff that the writer refers to and which also is at other leading blogs. There is demand for an alternative and you happen to be in a good place at the right time: You have some audience and reputation already, you have professional experience and knowledge about football (unlike almost all other bloggers), and you are an engaging, clear thinker and writer. No other bloggers combine all that. In the current firestorm your analysis and writing especially stand out. Opportunity may be knocking if you are interested.
I hope you are, for my selfish reasons, but of course you may have other plans and priorities such as your team. Go Blue and thanks for your efforts regardless.
LTA
P.S. There are other good people in the UM blogosphere, but they are spread out all over. Maybe combine with other smart writers with real knowledge.
I agree with most of what was said above. I very much hope Hoke succeeds on the field, and I'd happily give him another year to do it no matter what our record is this year. As far as every other aspect of his job, including the most important one IMHO -- taking care of and helping the student-athletes -- my impression is that he's one-in-a-million, and I think we're unlikely to find another.
ReplyDeleteMichael Rosenberg recently wrote in Sports Illustrated -- which Dave Brandon also said when he introduced Hoke, and everyone else I've read or heard from who knows Hoke has said -- that he's never heard anyone have anything bad to say about Hoke; that Hoke is a genuine, good person, that his integrity is beyond question. And Hoke's love for Michigan is also beyond question.
In a way, this is Hoke's and Michigan's moment: Do we let the angry mob dictate decisions or do we -keep our cool? Can we succeed under this pressure? Like a great QB in the 4th quarter of the big game, it's Hoke's time to show how good he is.
Long Time Alum
I am so glad to read the above comments by people with some sense. I agree that we shouldn't be an angry mob and go after whoever we can because we are losing games. When other teams have 5th year seniors and we have juniors and red shirt sophomores, we can expect a few losses. I'm for being patient with a guy whose lifelong dream was to be the coach at Michigan. And all I've ever heard from his character was that people couldn't find anything bad to say about the guy. When asked about coach hoke, his DC and players got teary eyed defending him. That says a lot.
ReplyDelete@Thunder
ReplyDeleteDo you think Michigan made a mistake in firing Borges? That is the great irony of this. Al would have had Gardner playing better this season especially knowing the playbook and not having to learn a new system. Now, Im not saying that Al is a better OC than Nussmeier, however for this current group of personel, he might be.
I'm wondering where the Borges-haters have gone.
DeleteFor one thing, they are the same people trying to ruin Hoke's and Brandon's careers (especially Cook at MGoBlog); when will we see the pattern of outrage after outrage and learn what these people are really about?
For another, we have pretty clear evidence that last year's offensive problem wasn't the offensive coordinator, because this year yet another highly qualified OC is having similar problems and getting similar results. It's too much coincidence to believe. In fact, Borges' performance was comparatively impressive because he mostly had the same players, but a year younger (with the notable exceptions of Gallon, Lewan, and Schofield).
LTA
Hoke is in his 4th year and has managed to serve up this crap-sandwich. He is a failure in every sense of the word but a good guy, yeah that's important, more important than winning....I think not.
ReplyDeleteTo anon at 1057. What kind of person says that winning is more important than being a good person? What!? That's urban Meyer stuff. That's what the world has gone to. You are what's wrong with the world! If Hoke is a good Man, and he is teaching the players to be good young men instead of thugs who can't survive without football then I am all for him. We all should be. Get some morals.
ReplyDeleteTo anon at 512 , nowhere in the above post does the guy say that he wants an unethical coach. Hoke has done a terrible job since his first season. He is hired to win games and graduate students. He is failing at one of those criteria. My honest question for you is: what part of Hoke's performance gives you confidence that he is the best man for the job?
ReplyDelete